Michigan to withhold $10M in aid to Detroit

**mikeg19** · November-21-12, 03:26 PM

What will everyone chant outside city council meetings when the payless paydays begin? "Why didn't you ask for help!?"

**coracle** · November-22-12, 07:53 AM

The reason they voted to reject the Aid is because the source is "white", and "black" must make "white" understand that when they eventually take it they are the ones really in control.

**Honky Tonk** · November-22-12, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

The reason they voted to reject the Aid is because the source is "white", and "black" must make "white" understand that when they eventually take it they are the ones really in control.

I don't think that's the whole story, but I do think that's a good part of it.

**313WX** · November-22-12, 10:06 AM

A non-partisan person though would have to ask why the state of Michigan and Mayor Bing would threaten of the health of the state's by-far largest city because one contract with 1 particular law firm [[who also drafted a law which was repealed) was not approved.

**Honky Tonk** · November-22-12, 10:22 AM

"A non-partisan person though would have to ask why the state of Michigan and Mayor Bing would threaten of the health of the state's by-far largest city"

Size doesn't matter. The "health" of said largest City is such that it's on it's death bed. The COD is a liability for the State, not an asset. However the question is valid, why is this point such a stickler. If the Council knows something, they really ought to share. They might just find more people in their corner instead of coming off like stuborn mules. A simple "The issue we have is...." instead of passing the buck, name-calling inuendos, would go a long way.

**313WX** · November-22-12, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"A non-partisan person though would have to ask why the state of Michigan and Mayor Bing would threaten of the health of the state's by-far largest city"

Size doesn't matter. The "health" of said largest City is such that it's on it's death bed. The COD is a liability for the State, not an asset.

And of course, you missed the entire point about the law firm.

Why would the state of Michigan and Mayor Bing threaten the fiscal solvency of Detroit because one contract with 1 particular law firm who drafted a law that was repealed by referendum wasn't approved?

And if size doesn't matter, then let Detroit go bankrupt.

After all, the reason I'm understanding Snyder won't let Detroit go bankrupt is because it would damage the credit rating of every location in the state and thus every single municipality's ability to sell bonds, as Wall Street see Detroit as Michigan.

Let's not talk out of both sides of our mouth here, which unfortunately seems to be the popular to do in Michigan these days.

**Honky Tonk** · November-22-12, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

And of course, you missed the entire point about the law firm.

I'm sorry, I never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the box. But by the same token, please reread my post about "If the Council knows something, they really ought to share."
You know, let's quit playing kid-shit games and doing renditions of "Onward Christian Soldiers". What's their beef? They have a real issue, what is it? If not, then let's move on to the task @ hand.

Why would the state of Michigan and Mayor Bing threaten the fiscal solvency of Detroit because one contract with 1 particular law firm who drafted a law that was repealed by referendum wasn't approved?

I dunno, why would the Council keep rejecting proposals without a valid reason? And "Just Because" doesn't count.

And if size doesn't matter, then let Detroit go bankrupt.

Good, I'm glad we resolved. Too bad thousands of lives are now screwed up. Let's go get a $10 Latte, then shop for $250 jackets @ Moosejaw.

After all, the reason I'm understanding Snyder won't let Detroit go bankrupt is because it would damage the credit rating of every location in the state and thus every single municipality's ability to sell bonds, as Wall Street see Detroit as Michigan.

Are you absolutely sure about that, or is that just wishful, let me rephrase that, HOPEful thinking. Or will Wally Street just say "It was a screwed up town anyway, who cares?"

Let's not talk out of both sides of our mouth here

Here I totally agree with you.

And it keeps going on......

**Wesley Mouch** · November-22-12, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

<snip>

Why would the state of Michigan and Mayor Bing threaten the fiscal solvency of Detroit because one contract with 1 particular law firm who drafted a law that was repealed by referendum wasn't approved?

<snip>

Maybe because sometimes you just don't change jockeys during a race.

All this fighting on fine points about who set the fire and which water hose to use has nothing to do with the issues.

I believe the State has a strong desire to see Detroit avoid bankruptcy -- for all the right reasons.

I believe the City Council knows this, and has chosen to use it to their advantage to fight against reform. For the small swallowing of pride as the fire rages, they could settle this. Instead, they're again doing anything possible to avoid reform.

This has nothing to do with anything but power. Detroit council would vote against the Detroit River flowing if Lansing was for it.

**Honky Tonk** · November-22-12, 11:46 AM

"This has nothing to do with anything but power."

And jobs. Where else are these guys going to find them?

"Detroit council would vote against the Detroit River flowing if Lansing was for it."

Nice.

**313WX** · November-22-12, 12:00 PM

I dunno, why would the Council keep rejecting proposals without a valid reason? And "Just Because" doesn't count.

Who said they didn't have a valid reason? The SE Michigan Free Press/News?

I think being handed a vague contract to a firm that already has a sketchy background at best and being told to approve it without anymore information is a good reason to not approve someone. Bing keeps claiming Miller Canfield are HIS lawyers and that he shouldn't have to release information about his client relationship with him he doesn't want to, yet he wants my taxpayer dollars to pay for his lawyers. That shouldn't happen and hopefully it won't.

Good, I'm glad we resolved. Too bad thousands of lives are now screwed up. Let's go get a $10 Latte, then shop for $250 jackets @ Moosejaw.

The lives of thousands of PRESENT Detroit taxpayers are being screwed under this questionable Consent Agreement. Now Snyder and Bing are telling me my neighborhood may not have street lightning, my water could be controlled by a private for-profit corporation and I have a greater chance of dying or being the victim of a crime because my emergency response times have increased even more, although at the same time they still expect me to write a check to the city of Detroit at the end of every fiscal year. And this is all only to protect the pensions and bondholders.

But of course, I guess we the citizens we elected to serve [[which for the record I did not vote for Snyder or Bing) don't matter.

Are you absolutely sure about that, or is that just wishful, let me rephrase that, HOPEful thinking. Or will Wally Street just say "It was a screwed up town anyway, who cares?"

Then again, I say let Detroit go bankrupt.

**313WX** · November-22-12, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Maybe because sometimes you just don't change jockeys during a race.

At the same time, you shouldn't choose to visit a specialist who has been sued for malpractice just because your docotr told you to do so or you'll die.

**Honky Tonk** · November-22-12, 12:27 PM

"At the same time, you shouldn't choose to visit a specialist who has been sued for malpractice just because your docotr told you to do so or you'll die."

What were the specifics of the suite? Is someone upset because one implant is 3 cm larger then the other, or did someone die on the operating table because the specialist decided to take a timeout to reply to a Detroit Yes post?

"But of course, I guess we the citizens we elected to serve [[which for the record I did not vote for Snyder or Bing) don't matter."

Did you vote in City officials to waste time and money, not show up to meetings, get nothing accomplished, keep their fingers in the cookie jar, and make a worse mess out of an already bad situation? Well, I sure as hell didn't. MY tax $s are being pissed away as well.

**corktownyuppie** · November-22-12, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

At the same time, you shouldn't choose to visit a specialist who has been sued for malpractice just because your docotr told you to do so or you'll die.

Close. In my opinion is more like this...

You're already dying. Only doctor for hundreds of miles has questionable motives. It's him or nothing. What do you do?

**Wesley Mouch** · November-22-12, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

At the same time, you shouldn't choose to visit a specialist who has been sued for malpractice just because your docotr told you to do so or you'll die.

Sure -- but this isn't just any lawfirm. We're not talking about Geoffrey Fieger here. Miller Canfield is a large, international firm with a great reputation. Sure, they're still lawyers, and that's a major strike against them. But I'd trust that group of greedy corporate lawyers any day over the Detroit Council. At least Miller Canfield no doubt practices honor among thieves.

**mam2009** · November-22-12, 03:28 PM

Why even have a legislative body in our governments? Let's just get rid of our system of checks and balanced & let the mayors, county executives, governors & President make all the decisions. And we should model that in other non-government bodies too. The presidents and CEOs of the PTAs, non-profit organizations, universities, Fortune 500 companies, block clubs, unions,etc should make all decisions for those organizations without a pesky board to make sure decisions of the executive are properly vetted.

Those pesky multi-member bodies just muck up the process & stall progress. Down with representative democracy!!! Dave Bing has done EVERYTHING right since he got in office so why oh why would the Detroit City Council ever challenge his wisdom & incredible business and political acumen? I mean five of them voted for the consent agreement but he could only get one of them to vote in favor of this ONE law firm contract...how is it that four of those five reasonable members became so UNreasonable as to vote to DELAY a vote in order to try to negotiate further with the Mayor? THE NERVE!!! How dare they?!

Clowncil haters know that Detroit mayors perform better when left to their own devices with no challenge to their decision-making. I mean that last mayor of Detroit left the City in GREAT SHAPE while he was all chummy with most of that previous City Council!

**Wesley Mouch** · November-22-12, 03:37 PM

This has NOTHING to do with anything but power. Its not about invoices, or conflict of interest, or anything else.

Miller Canfield knows this. They're smart enough not to be drawn into a power struggle between Mayor and Council.

If this were so simple as a dispute about invoices.... ha. You're all so distracted that you're missing the real game. And that's the idea.

It'd be a welcome change to have a council that truly wants to fight misappropriation of funds.

**mam2009** · November-22-12, 04:18 PM

Miller Canfield is already in it. Miller Canfield is the largest law firm in the state of Michigan. It has a large municipal law practice and is the general counsel for MERS, the Michigan Employee Retirement System, the same system that had been [[and probably still is being) contemplated to manage the Detroit pension funds. You don't think the largest LAW FIRM in the state of Michigan is interested in power and influence? You should ask the Detroit Pension Boards if THEY think Miller Canfield is interested in power and influence. I wonder if that may be one of those interesting little "conflicts" the City Council could be referring too?

**Wesley Mouch** · November-22-12, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Miller Canfield is already in it. Miller Canfield is the largest law firm in the state of Michigan. It has a large municipal law practice and is the general counsel for MERS, the Michigan Employee Retirement System, the same system that had been [[and probably still is being) contemplated to manage the Detroit pension funds. You don't think the largest LAW FIRM in the state of Michigan is interested in power and influence? You should ask the Detroit Pension Boards if THEY think Miller Canfield is interested in power and influence. I wonder if that may be one of those interesting little "conflicts" the City Council could be referring too?

I would never suggest they weren't interested in power and influence.

So let's agree there. This is about power and influence.

Do you think Miller Canfield is interested in making a few bucks by overcharging Detroit? That's small change. There's nothing to be seen there. Even if true.

To quote those freeway signboards, 'seek alternate route'.

**mam2009** · November-22-12, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I would never suggest they weren't interested in power and influence.

So let's agree there. This is about power and influence.

Do you think Miller Canfield is interested in making a few bucks by overcharging Detroit? That's small change. There's nothing to be seen there. Even if true.

To quote those freeway signboards, 'seek alternate route'.

Who said anything about "overcharging"? Did I miss something? Invoices don't just tell how much you paid for something, but WHAT you paid for. The Council is suggesting conflicts exist and seeing invoices is one way of seeing what conflicts may exist. Why doesn't the Mayor want the City Council to see what the citizens are paying for? Why is HE putting Detroit's receipt of its bond money in jeopardy over some invoices? Why is he choosing not disclosing invoices over securing Detroit's financial solvency?

**corktownyuppie** · November-22-12, 05:37 PM

Wes, the city has a gun to its head, but most of its citizens don't know it or believe it. I think it's time for the furloughs to kick in. Then maybe people will realize that we are in no position to negotiate.

**mam2009** · November-22-12, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

...I think it's time for the furloughs to kick in. Then maybe people will realize that we are in no position to negotiate.

That is a reasonable, honorable and excellent idea -- make the workers suffer more so you can hide some invoices from the City Council. Something about that kind of thought process sounds so...Kwamesque. Like demoting a certain DPD Internal Affairs commander and harassing other DPD officers and then hiding the conditions of a settlement agreement with those officers from the previous City Council -- all to hide a mayor's secrets.

The Council didn't have a problem with approving the Ernst & Young contract which was also part of this deal too. Why would they arbitrarily throw up an objection to the Miller Canfield contract?

**corktownyuppie** · November-22-12, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

The Council didn't have a problem with approving the Ernst & Young contract which was also part of this deal too. Why would they arbitrarily throw up an objection to the Miller Canfield contract?

Look, even if there were 100 rock solid, indisputable reasons for obstructing the deal...that doesn't put us in a better position to negotiate. For all practical purposes, City Council's role is to be a non-voting voice in the transformation of Detroit. City Council has spoken. And, as you say, they may even be speaking the truth on our behalf.

But that doesn't change the fact that we do not hold any cards. I'm not trying to make anyone suffer. I'm try facing the reality of the situation. We are out of money. No one wants to lend us anymore. One party is willing to co-sign a loan so we can get access to cash.

We have two choices:

- Accept their conditions to get the cash.
- Refuse their conditions and refuse the cash.

**Hermod** · November-22-12, 05:51 PM

A few payless paydays and missed pension checks are probably needed to get everyone's attention and to light a fire under the clowncil. A few outraged folks with torches and pitchforks would send those idiots scrambling for the fire exit.

**mam2009** · November-22-12, 06:41 PM

The Council is providing a reason for its position. Has the Mayor provided any reason for not showing the Council the invoices?

I know our local media can be quite lacking in providing any depth in their basic reporting, but I'm willing to admit that if he OFFERED his reasoning to the same local media he provides his press releases to, I have missed it.

Just ask the big question, local reporters, "WHY"?

**mam2009** · November-22-12, 07:06 PM

I think you're misunderstanding the choice here, Corktown. The state didn't choose the law firm. The Mayor did. The Mayor DOES have a choice. Pick a different firm or show the invoices. This has been pending for months.

If he wanted Detroit to get its bond money released from the state, all he had to do was make one of those choices.

Its the Council's job to accept or reject that choice and they've been telling him all along what they need in order to accept his choice.

Why would we expect the Council to enable him to make a potentially ill-advised choice when there are so many other capable law firms who can provide the same service? Why is he willing to forgo our $10 million just so one vendor can get a contract? Again, that sounds very Kwamesque. And why wouldn't we be interested in knowing WHY?