Detroit City Council set to vote on biggest land sale in city's history

[Shollin]

The area mentioned in the article includes all of Indian Village and a lot of West Village, two neighborhoods I thought were somewhat stable? A lot of the streets heading towards St Jean are vacant, but there's still a lot of houses. I just don't understand how this is going to work. Lets not ask questions though. Just sell. If the sale ends up being a mistake, we can just blame city council anyways.

[Honky Tonk]

"The area mentioned in the article includes all of Indian Village and a lot of West Village"

Are you sure about that? They're in the in the outlined general area, but I don't think the City can sell personal property. Not yet anyway.

"Lets not ask questions"

No, let's just keep making things up. I heard they're planning on dumping nuclear waste there! But you do have a VERY valid point. Where are our illustrious news teams with all this "In Depth" reporting? You'd think posting the exact specifics of this deal would be a priority.

[DetroitPlanner]

Curious, do you have some cite you could point to about your claim?

It stands to reason if this law exists, Richard has answered his own question in quoting the law. It would be DTE pulling up pipes. It would stand to reason that it would also be DTE that would have the financial liability. I am however unfamiliar with this law as well. Can you cite the USC or which federal register it comes from?

[313WX]

The area mentioned in the article includes all of Indian Village and a lot of West Village, two neighborhoods I thought were somewhat stable? A lot of the streets heading towards St Jean are vacant, but there's still a lot of houses. I just don't understand how this is going to work. Lets not ask questions though. Just sell. If the sale ends up being a mistake, we can just blame city council anyways.

Agreed.

The land will still be there a month, 6 months or eve a year from now. Once all of the finer details are worked out, then we can sell the land. This is just too big of a area to sell for pennies on the dollar to someone who we don't even know what intentions they have, especially given that this land sell will impact a lot of taxpaying Detroit citizens too.

I mean, if Mr. Hantz really believed Detroit was coming back, the first thing he would do before buying up 2.5 miles of land to plant tree is move his company and its jobs from Southfield to downtown.

[Spartan]

The area mentioned in the article includes all of Indian Village and a lot of West Village, two neighborhoods I thought were somewhat stable? A lot of the streets heading towards St Jean are vacant, but there's still a lot of houses. I just don't understand how this is going to work. Lets not ask questions though. Just sell. If the sale ends up being a mistake, we can just blame city council anyways.

Not sure if what you're saying is true, but if so, is there something that says it's ALL the land in the described area? Maybe I missed that somewhere, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that.

[edgar_rhode]

sorry if this is a repost - but heres a map of the proposed area [[ green ) and another article.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2159863.html

i cannot believe this is the area they are targeting. indian village, pewabic, etc. i'm sure there are “cut ins” and more detailed maps that show “safe / preserved / protected areas” somewhere. anyone have DETAILED info instead of this broad overview thats scaring people?

[artds]

As far as I am concerned any deal where you can get this property back on the tax rolls is a good deal. What kind of burden do crops and trees have on the police, fire, sanitation and school systems? Close to nill I am willing to bet. More revenue without increased costs is a good thing.

Assuming the assessment places the true cash value at or around the sale price, even at Detroit's absurdly high non homestead millage rate around 80 miils, this would equate to approximately $20k in additional revenue per year.

[stasu1213]

It would be upsetting if Council had showed strength to turn down the Miller-Canfield contract but approve the Hantz Farm project. I would say that would be a possible quid pro quo deal. I don't think that Indian Village could be razed for any developement being that it is a historical district. Dave Bing need to be recalled. He is probably in the back pockets of so many corporations and special interests groups.

[gvidas]

It's definitely not just a big square of land. The proposed sale is checkerboard ownership of presumably all the city-owned parcels within that square. I don't know how truthful it is, or what the source was, but there was a detail map hanging in the alcove of Marcus Market [[2nd & Prentis) indicating both the outer square as well as stars on all the lots. Some areas are very contiguous, others are not.

I think there is a very strong argument to be made that the deal needs to be clear about the long-term plans: if our accepting the deal hinges on the agricultural use, that should be spelled out for longer than 5 years. If it's 5 years of agriculture and then a development, fine; but let's be clear about it.

On the other hand, Why Don't We Own This? has shown the existing process for buying and speculating on Detroit land to be opaque, biased towards the [[often out-of-town) wealthy, and usually counter to the city's immediate needs.

Ideally, a solution to this would also create a clear, coherent, and fair process for other urban farmers to buy land for expressly agricultural purposes.

[JVB]

I mean, if Mr. Hantz really believed Detroit was coming back, the first thing he would do before buying up 2.5 miles of land to plant tree is move his company and its jobs from Southfield to downtown.

Hantz Farms is on Mt Elliot isn't it?

[Blueidone]

I believe the Mt. Elliot location is a small farm. But the corporate office is in Southfield.

[detroitsgwenivere]

My question is this: why THIS land? As in, why not the contiguous empty plots by the airport, or by mayfield and Houston whittier? Or between 6m / 7m / John r/ i-75?

To me, it just seems strange that this massive area with that many residents [[compared to other areas of high vacancy) is the only area up for discussion. In Indian village, one large house can pay upwards of 10k a year or more in taxes, let alone all the folks dotted throughout the area in question. Which kinda makes 20k in revenue and privately absorbed demo costs look a little less convincing to some. Has anyone bothered to get a consensus from these intertwined communities, which after all, will be the ones dealing with the fallout, if ever there was one?

The jury is still out for me on this, because I believe there is way more at stake [[good and bad) than just unloading some land for some revenue. I also think this is a facinating discussion.

[JVB]

My question is this: why THIS land? As in, why not the contiguous empty plots by the airport, or by mayfield and Houston whittier? Or between 6m / 7m / John r/ i-75?

Why would he want to buy land in a war zone? If you know anything about Detroit you know that the area where he is proposing to buy is far more desirable long term than the areas you mentioned.

[Shollin]

My question is this: why THIS land? As in, why not the contiguous empty plots by the airport, or by mayfield and Houston whittier? Or between 6m / 7m / John r/ i-75?

To me, it just seems strange that this massive area with that many residents [[compared to other areas of high vacancy) is the only area up for discussion. In Indian village, one large house can pay upwards of 10k a year or more in taxes, let alone all the folks dotted throughout the area in question. Which kinda makes 20k in revenue and privately absorbed demo costs look a little less convincing to some. Has anyone bothered to get a consensus from these intertwined communities, which after all, will be the ones dealing with the fallout, if ever there was one?

The jury is still out for me on this, because I believe there is way more at stake [[good and bad) than just unloading some land for some revenue. I also think this is a facinating discussion.

Well Hantz lives in Indian Village. Maybe he just wants to buy all the land around Indian Village and isolate it from the rest of the city? Maybe he just wants his personal playground.

[hortonz]

So Detroit is going to be the first city in the country to go back to the 19th century.

[Honky Tonk]

So Detroit is going to be the first city in the country to go back to the 19th century.

Detroit IS in the 19th century.

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm generally in favor of redevelopment, and of urban industrial farming...

But I would like to see deals like this done on a more standardized basis. What is the value of a city lot? Can everyone get that value? Should it change with a bulk purchase? If sold at farming value, it is rezoned to farming?

I think this should go through, and I've very suspicious of the council's motives... which seem mostly to be to get more votes by 'opposing the man'... but there's a good argument to be made for better, or at least more broadly articulated policies on land sales by the City. It is a very obvious place where corruption could sprout along with trees.

But all that said, these things should be done in advance. Council could say, we'll go along with this one, given a statement from the Mayor that this really is fair value -- but we want a policy for any future sales. Know that now. [[None of this, oh, we just sprouted our moral wings for political grandstanding.)

[SWMAP]

The city will sell vacant property in Hubbard Farms Historical District to adjacent property owners for $200 per lot. That makes it seem like Hantz is paying maybe a little too much per lot.

[Honky Tonk]

The city will sell vacant property in Hubbard Farms Historical District to adjacent property owners for $200 per lot. That makes it seem like Hantz is paying maybe a little too much per lot.

Not only that, but he's offering to pay taxes, maintain it, remove the debris, and clean it up. Who knows, the DPD might even be able to close the books on some of those "missing persons" cases.

[downtownguy]

I'm generally in favor of redevelopment, and of urban industrial farming...

But I would like to see deals like this done on a more standardized basis. What is the value of a city lot? Can everyone get that value? Should it change with a bulk purchase? If sold at farming value, it is rezoned to farming?

I think this should go through, and I've very suspicious of the council's motives... which seem mostly to be to get more votes by 'opposing the man'... but there's a good argument to be made for better, or at least more broadly articulated policies on land sales by the City. It is a very obvious place where corruption could sprout along with trees.

But all that said, these things should be done in advance. Council could say, we'll go along with this one, given a statement from the Mayor that this really is fair value -- but we want a policy for any future sales. Know that now. [[None of this, oh, we just sprouted our moral wings for political grandstanding.)

I don't get your point. You say you're in favor of this and Council is grandstanding. But you also argue in favor of creating a standardized policy. I think the bigger concern here is why the mayor is trying to jam one more agreement through with very little transparency. Let's get this done right and fair the first time. There's no reason why the concerns, if valid, of the smaller urban farmers can't be addressed and incorporated into a firm policy. Yes, the city is broke and could use a half mil. But that amount would make only a small dent in the city's deficit. If the city has to wait one or two months to get this deal right, then so be it.

[313WX]

So Detroit is going to be the first city in the country to go back to the 19th century.

That looks to be the case.

[LeannaM]

Ok, I see your point, and you're right. This is the problem I had with the rosy picture Mr. Vineyard was painting of plowing up land on Belle Isle. If you just leave fruit trees standing there, people will not only "take" fruit, but you're leaving it wide open to vandalization. So you're going to have to secure the area somehow. You're also going to need buildings for equipment and employees. On the flip side, Detroit is pretty cash strapped, so maybe an orchard in conjunction with some kind of learn to work program to generate revenue might NOT be such a bad idea. I even support the vineyard, I just don't want it on Belle Isle. Let Belle Isle become the nature center.

St. Patrick's Center in St. Louis has an urban farm as part of their program to get homeless people off the streets [[they also help get veterans and addicts). They have different types of programs to get people clean and back to work. It usually involves getting them housing and work and having them accountable to social workers.
http://www.stpatrickcenter.org/progr...ment-training/

This is the urban farm near Downtown.
http://www.stpatrickcenter.org/2012/...ds-urban-farm/

If the funding is there, Detroit could look into something like that. St. Patrick's Center gets half its funding from the government and the rest from donations. Does Detroit have charities or programs that do job training? It would cost more in the short term but might be beneficial in the long term.

[marshamusic]

I'm sorry if someone has already posted this to this discussion. Saw this on my Facebook newsfeed today: http://www.openingofdetroit.org/cont...just-any-land/

[Honky Tonk]

I'm sorry if someone has already posted this to this discussion. Saw this on my Facebook newsfeed today: http://www.openingofdetroit.org/cont...just-any-land/

What crap. Maybe jeffdebruyn can join forces with sneavling and the two of them can clean up the tires and garbage dumped on this Detroit precious jewel and pay the back taxes. Now that would be useful.

[Motor City Sam]

I'm sorry if someone has already posted this to this discussion. Saw this on my Facebook newsfeed today: http://www.openingofdetroit.org/cont...just-any-land/

Whether people agree with that Opening of Detroit article or not, there is nothing wrong with having a counterpoint to the Nolan Finleys of the world.