Detroit City Council set to vote on biggest land sale in city's history

**Vic01** · November-21-12, 05:34 AM

This article talks about a vote on Tuesday... did they screw this up too?

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...#ixzz2Cqt45oJz

**gameguy56** · November-21-12, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Vic01

This article talks about a vote on Tuesday... did they screw this up too?

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...#ixzz2Cqt45oJz

It's a huge amount of land, 2.5 square miles.

I just hope the council lets hantz farms put it to good use.

**p69rrh51** · November-21-12, 07:52 AM

They will manage to f**k it up!

**Bham1982** · November-21-12, 08:12 AM

1,600 contiguous parcels for 520k?

Doesn't that sound a little low, even for the East Side of Detroit? That's like $300 a parcel.

I mean, there are regular folks on DYes who could buy 2.5 contiguous square miles? That's practically what we're talking about.

**jolla** · November-21-12, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

1,600 contiguous parcels for 520k?

Doesn't that sound a little low, even for the East Side of Detroit?

No, it doesn't sound low. I don't know if you've noticed, but the city has a bunch of land that NOBODY wants.

This objection reminds me of Pontiac effing up its chance to sell the Silverdome; Detroit will probably screw this up, too.

**Honky Tonk** · November-21-12, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by jolla

No, it doesn't sound low. I don't know if you've noticed, but the city has a bunch of land that NOBODY wants.

This objection reminds me of Pontiac effing up its chance to sell the Silverdome; Detroit will probably screw this up, too.

EXACTLY! 40 years from now, that land will still be sitting there vacant, sans the few people that still remain in that neighborhood. [["you don't know that"), That's right, but it's an educated guess.

**Artistic** · November-21-12, 08:32 AM

And there you have it!!!!

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-land-for-farm#

**michimoby** · November-21-12, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Artistic

And there you have it!!!!

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-land-for-farm#

Councilwoman Joann Watson said she was concerned that the sale at an average of 8 cents per square foot might be below market value and a violation of the city charter.

You know, at this point I'm convinced that everything, including WATCHING PAINT DRY, is a violation of the city charter.

You know what ISN'T a violation of the charter? Bankruptcy. Thank God for that.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-21-12, 08:52 AM

170 acres is not 2.5 square miles. I would assume that the City owned camp in Brighton or DeHoCo sales were larger.

**313WX** · November-21-12, 08:58 AM

The land will still be there a month from now. It's not that big of a deal.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-21-12, 09:10 AM

As far as I am concerned any deal where you can get this property back on the tax rolls is a good deal. What kind of burden do crops and trees have on the police, fire, sanitation and school systems? Close to nill I am willing to bet. More revenue without increased costs is a good thing.

**syrett4** · November-21-12, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

As far as I am concerned any deal where you can get this property back on the tax rolls is a good deal. What kind of burden to crops and trees have on the police, fire, sanitation and school systems? Close to nill I am willing to bet. More revenue without increased costs is a good thing.

+1! This was exactly my thought.

**artds** · November-22-12, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

As far as I am concerned any deal where you can get this property back on the tax rolls is a good deal. What kind of burden do crops and trees have on the police, fire, sanitation and school systems? Close to nill I am willing to bet. More revenue without increased costs is a good thing.

Assuming the assessment places the true cash value at or around the sale price, even at Detroit's absurdly high non homestead millage rate around 80 miils, this would equate to approximately $20k in additional revenue per year.

**Zozo** · November-21-12, 09:42 AM

I must admit I don't know the particulars of the details. Some people think Hantz is getting a sweetheart deal. If in fact he is paying $300 a parcel and that is cheaper than normal, he is probably getting that price because he is buying bulk in a dead zone where no one would even dream of investing. I suspect the real reason why this project isn't going forward though is because he is white. The idea of a white person owning a large farm in Detroit for some reason alludes to the antebellum South to the grape throwing masses.

Seems rather ironic that we have members of the City Council, such as Pugh and Kenyatta, who can't even manage their own personal finances, making financial decisions for others. Where was the scrutiny at when some of Bobby Ferguson's contracts were on their table?

Shollin · November-21-12, 09:43 AM

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city. Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

**Honky Tonk** · November-21-12, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city. Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

What would you do with it? Besides a handful of people living on that plot of land, NO ONE in decades has made a move to populate it, or do anything with it. Outside of the newly resurected "Midtown", everything in this area is going bust and belly-up. No cops, No DFD, No streetlights, where's the draw?

Shollin · November-21-12, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

What would you do with it? Besides a handful of people living on that plot of land, NO ONE in decades has made a move to populate it, or do anything with it. Outside of the newly resurected "Midtown", everything in this area is going bust and belly-up. No cops, No DFD, No streetlights, where's the draw?

Why does it have to be developed? Let it turn back to nature. make it a park. Is a farm really going to make the area more attractive? People would just steal the crops and livestock.

**Honky Tonk** · November-21-12, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

People would just steal the crops and livestock.

Ok, I see your point, and you're right. This is the problem I had with the rosy picture Mr. Vineyard was painting of plowing up land on Belle Isle. If you just leave fruit trees standing there, people will not only "take" fruit, but you're leaving it wide open to vandalization. So you're going to have to secure the area somehow. You're also going to need buildings for equipment and employees. On the flip side, Detroit is pretty cash strapped, so maybe an orchard in conjunction with some kind of learn to work program to generate revenue might NOT be such a bad idea. I even support the vineyard, I just don't want it on Belle Isle. Let Belle Isle become the nature center.

**LeannaM** · November-26-12, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Ok, I see your point, and you're right. This is the problem I had with the rosy picture Mr. Vineyard was painting of plowing up land on Belle Isle. If you just leave fruit trees standing there, people will not only "take" fruit, but you're leaving it wide open to vandalization. So you're going to have to secure the area somehow. You're also going to need buildings for equipment and employees. On the flip side, Detroit is pretty cash strapped, so maybe an orchard in conjunction with some kind of learn to work program to generate revenue might NOT be such a bad idea. I even support the vineyard, I just don't want it on Belle Isle. Let Belle Isle become the nature center.

St. Patrick's Center in St. Louis has an urban farm as part of their program to get homeless people off the streets [[they also help get veterans and addicts). They have different types of programs to get people clean and back to work. It usually involves getting them housing and work and having them accountable to social workers.
http://www.stpatrickcenter.org/progr...ment-training/

This is the urban farm near Downtown.
http://www.stpatrickcenter.org/2012/...ds-urban-farm/

If the funding is there, Detroit could look into something like that. St. Patrick's Center gets half its funding from the government and the rest from donations. Does Detroit have charities or programs that do job training? It would cost more in the short term but might be beneficial in the long term.

**Gistok** · November-21-12, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Why does it have to be developed? Let it turn back to nature. make it a park. Is a farm really going to make the area more attractive? People would just steal the crops and livestock.

Since you're still a relative newbie on this forum... perhaps this initiative from DYes forum member CUB [[called Georgia Street Community Garden) will show that while cars and household items get scrappers and thieves attention, gardening seems to get little or no attention among thieves....

http://georgiastreetgarden.blogspot.com/

Shollin · November-21-12, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Since you're still a relative newbie on this forum... perhaps this initiative from DYes forum member CUB [[called Georgia Street Community Garden) will show that while cars and household items get scrappers and thieves attention, gardening seems to get little or no attention among thieves....

http://georgiastreetgarden.blogspot.com/

My aunt lives at Warren and Chalmers and has annexed some vacant lots for her garden and ocassionally finds plants missing along with statues and even a small bench she put there. I have to imagine if you have a large scale, 170 acre farm, people will be stealing. They will need to install some sort of security. Most likely this farm will have some sort of fence and look rather ugly from the outside. Most likely peaking over the fence will be some industrial steal built barn.

**Lowell** · November-21-12, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Why does it have to be developed? Let it turn back to nature. make it a park. Is a farm really going to make the area more attractive? People would just steal the crops and livestock.

If it is turned back to nature, the city still owns = no taxes and upkeep / liability costs continue.

Back to the issue at hand. I'm surprised no one on the council would say, "Okay let's sell that collection of plots, but let's auction it as awhole with the current conditions attached." Wouldn't that determine the true value? It would be a bit unfair to Hantz who did all the leg work but maybe it would stop their howling.

Or are they better to not risk getting a lower price at auction and take the $570K bird in the hand?

**michimoby** · November-21-12, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Shollin

Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

It's true: a broken clock IS right twice per day, after all.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-21-12, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shollin

For a forum that promotes urban density you would think more people would be opposed to a farm opening up within the city. Of course the mantra is if city council opposes it, it must be good.

The reality is that this land does exist. We are not suddenly going to have a million people moving into the City. Its best to have this being productive and producing taxes as opposed to being an eyesore. This is 170 less acres that the City would need to worry about for the time being and can then spend the time and effort trying to best improve and provide services for areas that are either now stable or on the fringe.

Shollin · November-21-12, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The reality is that this land does exist. We are not suddenly going to have a million people moving into the City. Its best to have this being productive and producing taxes as opposed to being an eyesore. This is 170 less acres that the City would need to worry about for the time being and can then spend the time and effort trying to best improve and provide services for areas that are either now stable or on the fringe.

Why does the city need to worry about it? Let it turn to nature. Have some volunteers plant trees. Turn the streets into gravel streets. Apparently if someone comes along with a plan we just need to jump because they say so. I just don't see how a farm benefits anyone in the surrounding area.