So Romney lost the state he was Governor, his birth state and birth county

[rb336]

cool, you hear that from racheal maddow?

no. I do not waste money on cable. Show me any proof of your claim. it is hideously simple-minded to draw comparisons between the US and Greece. Greece is, sorry guys, a third-world economy with the majority of its debt held by foreign banks. the vast majority of US debt is held by us. the single largest creditor is the Fed itself, with the SSA second

[ghettopalmetto]

no. I do not waste money on cable. Show me any proof of your claim. it is hideously simple-minded to draw comparisons between the US and Greece. Greece is, sorry guys, a third-world economy with the majority of its debt held by foreign banks. the vast majority of US debt is held by us. the single largest creditor is the Fed itself, with the SSA second

Well, that and Greece is tied to the Euro, and as a result, cannot unilaterally enact its own monetary policy. Not only can the United States enact its own monetary policy, but interest rates remain at record lows [[indicating robust confidence in our government debt) and other nations are practically paying us to invest their money here.

But to unsophisticated thinkers, "debt = debt = debt = bad". And that's probably why those people are farming dirt for a living instead of working in the financial sector.

[brizee]

Maybe the whole "rewards for their vote" or "offer them free shit" argument is just code for "we have absolutely nothing to offer politically".

The implication that people of color "want free shit" is exactly why they want nothing to do with Republicans.

I imagine Republican outreach to black and hispanic folk will go a little something like this.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Bush wasn't doing his job for which he did at least receive something like 44% of the Hispanic vote. Before the election, Obama stopped deporting illegal aliens unless they had committed crimes and then even backed the goalposts up on that a little. He violated immigration legislation in doing so. Democrats are not going to let Republicans get to the left of them on this issue. If Republicans got behind the Dream Act and new immigration legislation friendly to illegal aliens, Democrats would simply start advocating for affirmative action, Spanish language perks, or other issues in their advocacy of racial politics.

Nixon settled the illegal immigration problem "once and for all". He gave in to Democrats and legalized all 5M illegal aliens then in the country. Democrats promised, in return, to end illegal immigration. Because Democrats did not uphold their end of the deal and subsidizing something encourages more of it, we now have 12M illegal aliens in the Country. Eisenhower rounded up and deported relatively large numbers of illegal aliens to open up jobs for Americans. Nixon wimped out.

My suggestion to Republicans is to support small business, traditional family values, and upward mobility and always do it in a way that makes it clear they have the Hispanic population in mind. Leave it to Democrats to support illegal activities. Republicans should take the high road. Some temporary visas could be offered in places where unemployment was less than 5%. A compromise might be to severely punish the cheating employers of illegal aliens with huge fines, jail time, and reparations to taxpayers to pay for the medical, educational, and other expenses incurred by taxpayers so employers could hire this caste of lower paid workers. Massive deportations are not necessary. Enforcing existing immigration law is.

Good post, but they need to embrace the black community as well. No mention of them. Don't look now, but blacks and whites may well be the minority in 30 years, if we're still around to witness it.

[Zacha341]

Likewise we need to stop being so reflexively allergic to each and every conservative idea - thus, allowing the republicans to OWN THEM! THEY SHOULD NOT! Concepts and values such as stronger functioning families and education cannot POSSIBLY be a disadvantage at this point in the black community!!

The broader agency towards self-determination and progress [[considering what we see laid out before us) is a step out of the partisan box to evaluate ideas critically and apply them to best advantage! Not dismiss all ideas and policies all out of hand because they come from the wrong 'mean' party!

Good post, but they [Republicans] need to embrace the black community as well. No mention of them. Don't look now, but blacks and whites may well be the minority in 30 years, if we're still around to witness it.

[Crumbled_pavement]

Likewise we need to stop being so reflexively allergic to each and every conservative idea - thus, allowing the republicans to OWN THEM! THEY SHOULD NOT! Concepts and values such as stronger functioning families and education cannot POSSIBLY be a disadvantage at this point in the black community!!

The broader agency towards self-determination and progress [[considering what we see laid out before us) is a step out of the partisan box to evaluate ideas critically and apply them to best advantage! Not dismiss all ideas and policies all out of hand because they come from the wrong 'mean' party!

This made me chuckle. Well stated and true.

[Jimaz]

From today's Free Press: GOP does some soul-searching

"Republicans have to start understanding that small business and entrepreneurs are important, but the people who work for them are also important," said Rep. Charles Bass, R-N.H., who lost his seat to Democrat Ann Kuster. "We've got to be compassionate conservatives."

Wait. Haven't we heard that before? Either that was empty rhetoric back then or all the "compassion" they could muster wasn't enough to matter.

Hate is not an American value. And enjoying hatred doesn't make it right.

[rb336]

From today's Free Press: GOP does some soul-searchingWait. Haven't we heard that before? Either that was empty rhetoric back then or all the "compassion" they could muster wasn't enough to matter.

Hate is not an American value. And enjoying hatred doesn't make it right.

Empty rhetoric then, empty rhetoric now.

I remember a few years ago when a bunch of right-wing jackasses in...Howell?...went to a school board meeting demanding a teacher be fired for having a poster saying "Hate is not a family value" in her classroom. the board had the sense to ignore them

[JVB]

I remember a few years ago when a bunch of right-wing jackasses in...Howell?...went to a school board meeting demanding a teacher be fired for having a poster saying "Hate is not a family value" in her classroom. the board had the sense to ignore them

If I remember correctly, that was a Christian student group that complained because the teacher had stuck that bumper sticker on their poster. They weren't objecting to "Hate is not a family value", they were objecting to the insinuation by the teacher that they were in fact preaching hate. I don't know anything about that group but I think that's a little different, don't you? I don't mean to get in the way of your narrative that all conservatives are hate-filled monsters, but facts are pretty important too.

[noise]

Concepts and values such as stronger functioning families and education cannot POSSIBLY be a disadvantage at this point in the black community!!

How are these viewed as only conservative concepts and values and how does any political ideology promote or discourage either?

[TKshreve]

How are these viewed as only conservative concepts and values and how does any political ideology promote or discourage either?

I think the message coming from the right is to that point, but its delivery technique is very questionable.

Instead of saying that people should not be promiscuous, conservatives say that contraception should not be made available via insurance. Furthermore, they also try to use abortion as a front for this battle. They also use key phrases like "personal responsibility" and such, which do not resonate well with the lower income, uneducated people they are trying to reach for. They denounce planned parenthood when in fact it is planned parenthood that has a proper contact point with the people they are trying to persuade. It's a crazy, misguided end about way of trying to instill values and beliefs. [[many of which I agree with.... just not their tactics of delivery)

[noise]

I think the message coming from the right is to that point, but its delivery technique is very questionable.

Instead of saying that people should not be promiscuous, conservatives say that contraception should not be made available via insurance. Furthermore, they also try to use abortion as a front for this battle. They also use key phrases like "personal responsibility" and such, which do not resonate well with the lower income, uneducated people they are trying to reach for. They denounce planned parenthood when in fact it is planned parenthood that has a proper contact point with the people they are trying to persuade. It's a crazy, misguided end about way of trying to instill values and beliefs. [[many of which I agree with.... just not their tactics of delivery)

And I think that's the problem. The misguided approach has nothing to do with family values, but being opposed to their tactics [[liberal?) doesn't mean you're anti-family values.

[rb336]

If I remember correctly, that was a Christian student group that complained because the teacher had stuck that bumper sticker on their poster. They weren't objecting to "Hate is not a family value", they were objecting to the insinuation by the teacher that they were in fact preaching hate. I don't know anything about that group but I think that's a little different, don't you? I don't mean to get in the way of your narrative that all conservatives are hate-filled monsters, but facts are pretty important too.

You aren't remembering correctly. It was not put on a poster for their group, it was on its own. The Xtian group's poster was posted OVER a lesbian and gay student support group poster after school hours. The teacher moved it over and put the "hate is not a family value" poster or sticker between the two

[JVB]

You aren't remembering correctly. It was not put on a poster for their group, it was on its own. The Xtian group's poster was posted OVER a lesbian and gay student support group poster after school hours. The teacher moved it over and put the "hate is not a family value" poster or sticker between the two

Well, the only article I could find on the incident with a quick Google search tells a different story:

Valerie Olander / The Detroit News
HOWELL -- A school family values organization wants a Howell High School teacher suspended for posting a bumper sticker stating, "Hatred is not a Family Value" next to a student club's Christian flag.
"This teacher violated the school's own harassment policy," said Vicki Fyke, spokeswoman for Livingston Organization for Values in Education.
"What she did was an act of hate. It's intolerable," Fyke said.
The group wants the teacher suspended through the end of the school year and required to take religious sensitivity training class, as well as other teachers involved.
On Monday, a teacher who allegedly was involved in posting the sticker -- said: "I can't comment about what happened at the high school. It was an unfortunate misunderstanding."
Principal Marge Hamill referred questions to the district administrative office.
Deputy Superintendent Lynn Parish was unavailable for comment.
The bumper sticker incident happened on Friday. Andrew Cureton, chairman of the high school's newly formed Traditional Values Club, witnessed two teachers laughing and taking cell phone photographs of the bumper sticker posted under the Christian flag, Fyke said.
Similar bumper stickers were found posted on classroom doors, she said.
Last month, about 40 teachers protested to Hamill, when the Traditional Values Club was allowed to hang the Christian flag in the high school. For the club, it had been a two-year-long battle to be recognized at the high school.
In late 2004, the school's Diversity Club hung a rainbow flag that some say represents gay pride. LOVE members objected and tried to get the flag removed, saying it did not belong in a school. The district allowed the rainbow flag to remain.
The ACLU said the Christian group was within its rights since other student groups can hang flags.
You can reach Valerie Olander at [[517) 552-5503 or volander@....

I don't live in Howell and have no first hand knowledge so maybe this article is incorrect, but from the way it sounds they were the ones being harrassed by the teacher. At least that was their claim and what started the whole thing. That's a pretty far-stretch from "demanding a teacher be fired for having a poster saying 'Hate is not a family value' in her classroom" as you characterized it.

[rb336]

I don't live in Howell and have no first hand knowledge so maybe this article is incorrect, but from the way it sounds they were the ones being harrassed by the teacher. At least that was their claim and what started the whole thing. That's a pretty far-stretch from "demanding a teacher be fired for having a poster saying 'Hate is not a family value' in her classroom" as you characterized it.

actually, the very first line of the article says that:

A school family values organization wants a Howell High School teacher suspended for posting a bumper sticker stating, "Hatred is not a Family Value" next to a student club's Christian flag.

As for the rest, well the details after 6 years can change. the Livingston Organization for Values in Education tried to remove a rainbow flag, saying that since it represented gay pride, it shouldn't be allowed. The teacher put a sticker under the "LOVE [[as long as you share our narrow values)" flag with the "hate is not a family value" wording. the essence of what I said was 100% correct, just the details were off.

[Jimaz]

Did Anonymous stop Karl Rove from Stealing Ohio again?

Did Karl Rove brazenly bet all his billionaire donors' "investments" on the "talents" of mere script kiddies?!

How much did he skim from outsourcing his billionaire clients' investments toward this cheap talent—that failed to "perform"?

Are Karl Rove's kneecaps still intact?

[rb336]

Poetic justice? the vote tally may end up with Romney getting 47% of the vote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...tml?tid=pm_pop

[JVB]

Poetic justice? the vote tally may end up with Romney getting 47% of the vote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...tml?tid=pm_pop

How ironic that the same people that criticized Romney for his disparaging remarks about the 47% that pay no federal income tax, have no problem making disparaging remarks about the 47% of voters that supported Romney.

The best part of politics is watching it turn all involved into mindless hypocrites.

[rb336]

How ironic that the same people that criticized Romney for his disparaging remarks about the 47% that pay no federal income tax, have no problem making disparaging remarks about the 47% of voters that supported Romney.

The best part of politics is watching it turn all involved into mindless hypocrites.

misuse of the word "ironic"

Differences between Democrats and Republicans:
Democrats aren't required to march in lock-step with their extremists to get their nominations.
Democrats often criticize their own elected officials and leadership. Republicans generally don't, except by using terms like "moderate" as if it were an expletive

[JVB]

Democrats often criticize their own elected officials and leadership. Republicans generally don't, except by using terms like "moderate" as if it were an expletive

Oh I think you know that's not true. Democrats were justifiably vocal about human rights abuses under Bush, but have been eerily silent about even worse human rights abuses under Obama.

For instance, Obama has legalized the assassination of US citizens [[something not even Bush supported), without any legal requirement of due process, trial or conviction. You end up on the list and every Tuesday he gives the thumbs or thumbs down on whether or not you will be assassinated. They have acknowledged murdering several US citizens already, including a 16 year old Colorado boy named Abdul Rahman Al-Awlaki.



I don't hear anybody on the left condemning Obama for murdering our fellow citizens without even presenting any evidence as to why they are being murdered. That's a little more serious than some nutcase in Kansas talking about "legitimate rape"...

[rb336]

Oh I think you know that's not true. Democrats were justifiably vocal about human rights abuses under Bush, but have been eerily silent about even worse human rights abuses under Obama.

For instance, Obama has legalized the assassination of US citizens [[something not even Bush supported), without any legal requirement of due process, trial or conviction. You end up on the list and every Tuesday he gives the thumbs or thumbs down on whether or not you will be assassinated. They have acknowledged murdering several US citizens already, including a 16 year old Colorado boy named Abdul Rahman Al-Awlaki.



I don't hear anybody on the left condemning Obama for murdering our fellow citizens without even presenting any evidence as to why they are being murdered. That's a little more serious than some nutcase in Kansas talking about "legitimate rape"...

Pure bullshit. Rachel Maddow, Thom Hartman, Dennis Kucinich, Bill Maher, our senators and numerous other well-known progressives have bitched about all of that for the last four years, not to mention Move On and other progressive groups. get out of your bubble sometime

[JVB]

Pure bullshit. Rachel Maddow, Thom Hartman, Dennis Kucinich, Bill Maher, our senators and numerous other well-known progressives have bitched about all of that for the last four years, not to mention Move On and other progressive groups. get out of your bubble sometime

Rachel Maddow is the Sean Hannity of the Democratic Party. She pretends to be above it all, but in the end she rarely holds Democrats accountable for anything, happy to make her living with snarky remarks about all things conservative. She is a party shill, which is why she is on the Democrat "News" Network. If you don't see that, it's because you're drinking the same Kool-Aid as she is, just like the people that think Hannity or Rush are "Fair and Balanced" drink their own Kool-Aid.

I don't know much about Hartman's criticisms of Obama, but Kucinich I like a lot and yes he has been very vocal on those things - although he is not exactly the voice of the Democratic Party either. Bill Maher though? Seriously? The guy that just gave Obama $1 million dollars? Haha yeah, he's a real outspoken critic of Obama.

But remember for every Kucinich, there is a Ron Paul. For every Hartman there is a Judge Napolitano. There are plenty of conservative voices that challenge the Republican Party, in fact that's a big reason why they lost the election. There's an entire libertarian wing of the Republican Party that supports civil liberty issues [[pro gay marriage, pro choice, anti-prohibition, anti-NDAA, anti-Patriot Act, Anti-War etc) who broke ranks with the Party during the primaries because of their mistreatment and didn't bother to vote in the general election.

Anyways, I think political parties are a corrupting influence on government. They dumb down the populace by turning everything into a red team vs blue team debate, rather than assessing issues and candidates individually.

[oladub]

Regarding Dennis Kucinich: Kucinich noted that President Obama's executive war on Libya was, as he called it, "an impeachable offense". Not long afterwards, his congressional district was eliminated and he lost to Rep. Kaptur of Toledo in the Democratic primary. Was there a reason Kucininch lost his congressional district instead of another Democrat who didn't suggest a basis for impeachment? It may have just been a coincidence. Another coincidence was that Kucinich and Kaptur were 2 of the 3 most vocal Democratic opponents of the Federal Reserve in Congress and one was guaranteed to be eliminated as a source of Fed antagonism. Since the election, Marcy Kaptur has been more of a supporter of the Fed. Now she understands.

Gone are the days when Senators Morse, McGovern, and McCarthy stood up to Johnson's pursuit of the Vietnam war. Do that today in the Democratic Party or oppose abortion and you are through.

[rb336]

^^so full of BS this is all the response required^^

you OBVIOUSLY have never listened to any of the personalities I listed, because then you wouldn't say the bullshit that you do. I have actually heard, with my own two ears, each of them lay heavy criticism on Obama's policies. Neither of the people you mention are real Republicans - both are libertarians. That "wing" of the party is silenced as regularly as the true progressives in the democratic party - like Kucinich. You see what happens to conservatives when they stray from the party line. FOX called Ben Stein a communist just recently.

Political parties aren't necessarily a detriment to governance, however, having two parties that block out every other option from viability is. It is the corrupting influence of money, yet again. I'd love it if there were 5 or 6 viable parties. You could have a the republican party split into two, a "Christian Republican Party" and corporate libertarian party [[AKA fuck the commons and the working stiffs in pursuit of laissez-faire capitalism ) and from the dems a social libertarian party, a progressive party and a social-democrat party. The green party would stay the green party

[Jimaz]

Peggy Lee - ♫ Is That All There Is? ♫