Is Detroit the worst city in the country?

[Honky Tonk]

Not to start the 2012 riots, but there was a lot of backlash agianst whites by blacks as well. Which is why you have such a population shift, and Detroit is what it is today.

[De'troiter]

Not to start the 2012 riots, but there was a lot of backlash agianst whites by blacks as well. Which is why you have such a population shift, and Detroit is what it is today.

Lol...I agree with you Friend, but how long could we actually expect someone to continue to go along with the rules of a system, when the people who wrote the rules didn't follow them? I do not believe the riots helped Detroit as a whole, but I do believe it got the attention of the "Powers that Were."

Here's something else to ponder, if Blacks tried to co-exist and live amongst Whites in the City despite all of the hardships that they had to endure from the White Community at the time, why couldn't Whites have done the same and try to co-exist amongst Blacks? Detroit is what it is today, because Whites gave Blacks a reason to backlash. Black people did not just wake up in 1967 with the idea to lashed-out against the system for no reason. There is a cause and effect to everything that occurs.

I believe this region most come together racially in order to succeed, but it just disturbs me when I hear people talk about Detroit before the last 40years as this sort of Magic Kingdom. None of that flies when I know for a fact that, that was not the case. My own Black elderly Grandmother was pelted by rocks for walking down E. 7mile in an White exclusive neighborhood, despite the fact the she was 50%+ White, and was told not to go in that neighborhood when she told the police in the late 1950s/early 1960s. If we are gonna discuss the facts, lets discuss ALL of the facts.

[old guy]

Gary, East St Louis, and Newark give you some competition.

East St Louis makes Detroit look like Beverly Hills.

[Strong]

Not the worst but we probably have lost the most population than any other city.

[MaxCady]

I'm not sure how to quantify 'worst" but I think all would agree Detroit is in dire straits. Large population loss, high violent crime rate, lack of employment or any real reason to live there and a refusal to view the city in it's present reality have combined to put Detroit in what I believe to be a death spiral.

[cman710]

Newark actually might be the perfect example to combat the popular ideas of why Detroit is in decline. The popular thought is that Detroit is in decline because of high crime, poor schools, corrupt city government, etc. All of which Newark also has in spades. But Newark's population has been fairly even for the past 20 years, while Detroit has still been on a death spiral. Why has Newark stabilized without significantly improving in any of those areas?

Before someone mentions Cory Booker, keep in mind that Sharpe James -- whose antics could rival Kwame Kilpatrick, and he spent a couple years in the federal pen because of it -- was mayor of Newark from 1986 - 2008... So his tenure pretty much overlaps the stabilization of the city's population.

Newark is also a city with many problems, but I don't think that it is comparable to Detroit because it is not the central city in its region. Newark benefits immensely from being near New York City, and its population loss and rebound have loosely correlated with that of New York City. Newark lost 28& of its population from 1970-1990. NYC did not experience as significant a drop in population and its population rebounded a bit earlier, but the timing was similar. Since 1990, New York City has rebounded and real estate in the region has gone up in cost incredibly. Newark has benefited from this because it is cheaper.

While Detroit benefits from being near a major international crossing, it is the main city in the region and cannot benefit from being so close to an economic powerhouse. Unlike in the NYC region, land is also plentiful, so Detroit's low cost has limted attraction, particularly given the horrendous state of city services. This leaves Detroit on its own, whereas Newark can ride NYC's coat tails.

[coracle]

It's certainly not he worst City architecturally or for its geographical location; in fact from both of these standpoints its highly desirable; BUT it is the worst from the point of view of crime and that condemns it to a continued decline in the standards of living and the loss of population.

[iheartthed]

Newark is also a city with many problems, but I don't think that it is comparable to Detroit because it is not the central city in its region. Newark benefits immensely from being near New York City, and its population loss and rebound have loosely correlated with that of New York City. Newark lost 28& of its population from 1970-1990. NYC did not experience as significant a drop in population and its population rebounded a bit earlier, but the timing was similar. Since 1990, New York City has rebounded and real estate in the region has gone up in cost incredibly. Newark has benefited from this because it is cheaper.

While Detroit benefits from being near a major international crossing, it is the main city in the region and cannot benefit from being so close to an economic powerhouse. Unlike in the NYC region, land is also plentiful, so Detroit's low cost has limted attraction, particularly given the horrendous state of city services. This leaves Detroit on its own, whereas Newark can ride NYC's coat tails.

Not sure that I agree that Newark rides New York's coattails, but I do agree that NYC and Newark's populations have shown similar trajectories, although Newark lagged New York by about a decade in stopping the populatioin decline. I think the reason that NYC and Nwk's population trajectories are similar is because they are affected by the same land use policies since Nwk is just 8 miles from Manhattan. The NY Metro area, including Newark, is not a fast growing metropolitan area. But the NY area has more urban focused development and transportation policies, which has driven the population growth to urban areas.

[GUSHI]

I been called plenty of different names by black folk, including honky, cracker, whitey etc, you need to stop blaming white folk for the city do Detroit problems, both white and black fucked it up, the only difference is it was in black control for 40 plus years, Coleman didn't do any think to helpmdetroit either did KK, now Archer I really liked Archer.

Lol...I agree with you Friend, but how long could we actually expect someone to continue to go along with the rules of a system, when the people who wrote the rules didn't follow them? I do not believe the riots helped Detroit as a whole, but I do believe it got the attention of the "Powers that Were."

Here's something else to ponder, if Blacks tried to co-exist and live amongst Whites in the City despite all of the hardships that they had to endure from the White Community at the time, why couldn't Whites have done the same and try to co-exist amongst Blacks? Detroit is what it is today, because Whites gave Blacks a reason to backlash. Black people did not just wake up in 1967 with the idea to lashed-out against the system for no reason. There is a cause and effect to everything that occurs.

I believe this region most come together racially in order to succeed, but it just disturbs me when I hear people talk about Detroit before the last 40years as this sort of Magic Kingdom. None of that flies when I know for a fact that, that was not the case. My own Black elderly Grandmother was pelted by rocks for walking down E. 7mile in an White exclusive neighborhood, despite the fact the she was 50%+ White, and was told not to go in that neighborhood when she told the police in the late 1950s/early 1960s. If we are gonna discuss the facts, lets discuss ALL of the facts.

[De'troiter]

I been called plenty of different names by black folk, including honky, cracker, whitey etc, you need to stop blaming white folk for the city do Detroit problems, both white and black fucked it up, the only difference is it was in black control for 40 plus years, Coleman didn't do any think to helpmdetroit either did KK, now Archer I really liked Archer.

Gushi, i'm not blaming White folks for the City of Detroit's problems. I only stated historically documented facts about Detroit's past. I have to admit, our past is not exactly pretty. It is no secret that Detroit was ran by racist bigots for decades before Blacks were even allowed to legally vote. Its unfortunate that you've been called names by Blacks but i've experienced the same from Whites. For the record I believe that in order for Detroit to succeed all Blacks, Whites, Reds, Browns, Yellows & GREEN$ must co-exist in unity.

Also Coleman Young did provide Black Detroiters [[whom had been discriminated against by prior administrations) with opportunities that they would not have had other wise. I don't think that you understand just how bad Blacks were treated in this City prior to Coleman Young. Berry Gordy and the Motown Crew were not even allowed to patron the establishments that they performed in for White crowds. This caused Gordy to actually purchase the Graystone Ballroom in order to integrate it!

History speaks for itself rather good or bad. We cannot make it up as we go. I assume that you believe that Christopher Columbus was a saint too, huh? I guess we have to forget about the fact that he kidnapped, raped and sold thousands of Men, Women and Children; and fed their babies alive to his dogs, and kept a journal about it all! There is always 2 sides of a story.

[MvGuy]

As an old Ex-Detroiter now living on the Island of Martha's Viveyard..... I want to have my say........ No, NO....NO...!!! Not even close.... is my opinion... What people in Detroit who take certain aspects of life as like Greektown as no biggie... To those of us stuck other places with no equivalent destination.. to US it is a treasure.... The Question really is "Has Detroit come down the farthest..?? Fortunately for you there in Detroit the good news is that Detroit still has something going on besides people shuffling around lookin down... Last time I was there [[2005/6) the Cass Corridor still held some alure I do not enjoying betting my hard scammed greenies on games of chance which were designed to fleece the dweebz of 15% of their bet over normal odds, but a downtown Casino is exciting if only to\ watch the faces of those that win and lose... There are many many cities with all of Detroit's problems but have no fun for the intrepid.. Detroit is to hard core to be petty or overtly politically correct... You can say what you want except for racist insults and brain dead disrespect... It's the Wild West in the MidWest.... The cops have REAL problems so they let you be if, you aren't stealing he wires from traffic lights... or stickin guns in peoples faces askin for money... Detroit keeps its folks on their toes.... You never really know what's gonna happen next... or who it will happen to..... But that's true everywhere.... Here where I live now, reckless fishing is a big killer, bad decisions in boats another..... People becoming vegetables after a knock on the noggin with a golf ball.... You never really know.... So enjoy the raw edge and the river and don't let them get you down... America has sold it's soul to globalization and cities and towns are goin down or dyin all around... So has Detroit... but it's still got it's fun..!!

[Strong]

As an old Ex-Detroiter now living on the Island of Martha's Viveyard..... I want to have my say........ No, NO....NO...!!! Not even close.... is my opinion... What people in Detroit who take certain aspects of life as like Greektown as no biggie... To those of us stuck other places with no equivalent destination.. to US it is a treasure.... The Question really is "Has Detroit come down the farthest..?? Fortunately for you there in Detroit the good news is that Detroit still has something going on besides people shuffling around lookin down... Last time I was there [[2005/6) the Cass Corridor still held some alure I do not enjoying betting my hard scammed greenies on games of chance which were designed to fleece the dweebz of 15% of their bet over normal odds, but a downtown Casino is exciting if only to\ watch the faces of those that win and lose... There are many many cities with all of Detroit's problems but have no fun for the intrepid.. Detroit is to hard core to be petty or overtly politically correct... You can say what you want except for racist insults and brain dead disrespect... It's the Wild West in the MidWest.... The cops have REAL problems so they let you be if, you aren't stealing he wires from traffic lights... or stickin guns in peoples faces askin for money... Detroit keeps its folks on their toes.... You never really know what's gonna happen next... or who it will happen to..... But that's true everywhere.... Here where I live now, reckless fishing is a big killer, bad decisions in boats another..... People becoming vegetables after a knock on the noggin with a golf ball.... You never really know.... So enjoy the raw edge and the river and don't let them get you down... America has sold it's soul to globalization and cities and towns are goin down or dyin all around... So has Detroit... but it's still got it's fun..!!

I really like your comment.

[GUSHI]

Being 1st generation born here, I can tell my parents and ansector for 100's of years couldn't of gona to church for fear of beating and death, so it wasn't only African Americans that were treated poorly, just a FYI,

Gushi, i'm not blaming White folks for the City of Detroit's problems. I only stated historically documented facts about Detroit's past. I have to admit, our past is not exactly pretty. It is no secret that Detroit was ran by racist bigots for decades before Blacks were even allowed to legally vote. Its unfortunate that you've been called names by Blacks but i've experienced the same from Whites. For the record I believe that in order for Detroit to succeed all Blacks, Whites, Reds, Browns, Yellows & GREEN$ must co-exist in unity.

Also Coleman Young did provide Black Detroiters [[whom had been discriminated against by prior administrations) with opportunities that they would not have had other wise. I don't think that you understand just how bad Blacks were treated in this City prior to Coleman Young. Berry Gordy and the Motown Crew were not even allowed to patron the establishments that they performed in for White crowds. This caused Gordy to actually purchase the Graystone Ballroom in order to integrate it!

History speaks for itself rather good or bad. We cannot make it up as we go. I assume that you believe that Christopher Columbus was a saint too, huh? I guess we have to forget about the fact that he kidnapped, raped and sold thousands of Men, Women and Children; and fed their babies alive to his dogs, and kept a journal about it all! There is always 2 sides of a story.

[Islandman]

I don't think anyone is trying to say that Blacks have a copyright and/or patent on persecution, religious or otherwise.

[BFoster]

I think that it is important to acknowledge that racial politics have been used for far longer than the last forty years. Detroit has never been a Utopia for race-relations. From its establishment as Fort Detroit there was fighting between races [[Native People vs White). Beyond those fights, Blacks were not recieved with open arms either, hence the 3 documented riots [[1863, 1943, 1967) and the numerous undocumented tactics used against Blacks. People always describe Detroit as this absolute paradise before Coleman Young was elected. While that may be true for Whites, that was not the reality for thousands of Blacks who were force to live in an unequal city.

It really says something about Detroit of 'Ole, when Charlie LeDeuff's own Grandparents moved to Detroit from Lousiana, built a house in a white neighborhood, and never told their children that they were actually Black, because of fear of the backlash from their "Friendly" White Detroit neighbors. What about Dr. Ossian Sweet or the 1st Black child at Bagley Elementary is the early 1960s who was taunted, threatened and harrassed by White Adult Parents? Talk about Racial Politics. The problem goes far beyond the past 40 years.

"What about Dr. Ossian Sweet or the 1st Black child at Bagley Elementary is the early 1960s who was taunted, threatened and harassed by White Adult Parents?"

De'troiter - There's no doubt about the horror of the Ossian Sweet story, but the Bagley incident you mentioned really caught me by surprise. Has that been discussed in print anywhere? I ask because I was a student there at the time and I remember the first black kids that came there in the early 60's very well, and all I remember is playing with them on the playground, being in classes with them and going to some of their houses after school. Some of those kids were quite well-liked.

I was only 11-12 years old at the time, and perhaps only dimly aware of tension among adults, but I don't remember it affecting the kids, or the black kids being harassed. I'm not saying that harassment by adults didn't happen or couldn't have happened, but I never heard of it until now. You mention harassment of the Bagley kids in the same sentence as Dr. Sweet, so if true, it's something that should be taken seriously. Can you point me to any articles about the incident[[s) or other sources?

[rex]

probably. There is a violent culture that has developed and become part of Detroit. Other cities have problems and problem areas but what we have is several consecutive generations of detroiters for which violence and murder is commonplace. Life is cheap. For a city of under 700K to have atleast 330 murders with 2 months left in the year is crazy. These are 1990s numbers. When there were 3-500K more residents and more crack

[d'oh]

Detroit is the canary in the coal mine. Pretty soon all our big cities will look like Motown.

Complete bullshit...