Is Detroit the worst city in the country?

[Strong]

Well this thread is different than what I am used to posting but here goes.

I was just wondering is Detroit the worst city in the US?

I try to post positive thoughts and others respond with negatively slanted comments as if they can't think positively about The Great Detroit?

I was asked a similar question in an interview by Channel 7's Detroit 2020, here's my response. http://detroit2020.com/2012/10/05/ou...t-at-its-best/

So I was wondering are images like this only in Detroit!

[Crumbled_pavement]

If we're not the worst big city in the nation, we certainly give a good competition for that position.

As far as the negativity around here, it is the mindset on both sides of 8 Mile. This is not an area where positive ideas circulate much. No side will budge and neither side will stand for progress. We'll continue to bleed population as we continue with our self fulfilling prophecy.

A positive 'we can conquer our challenges' attitude instead of a defeatest attitude would have helped the metro area decades ago and we would not be where we are now. But at this point, I think we're way past just needing a positive attitude.

[poobert]

Worst is pretty subjective, of course.

I would say we are pretty easily the worst "big" city in the country, for all the obvious reasons. That is, if we can even be counted as a big city anymore. I'd also make the argument that we're the worst major metropolitan area. You essentially get a choice between blight and sprawl. Horrible city/suburb and race relations. No transit to speak of. STILL lousy economy unless you're a car guy. Cost of living is relatively low, but largely because there is so little demand to live here, and so much oversupply of housing/space. People here are generally closed-minded and mean-spirited, and everyone seems to be a breath away from running you off the road or blowing your brains out. Any significant change or innovation is met with not only rejection but derision [[serious conversations that need to be had about transit quickly degenerate into mocking of 'choo-choos')

However there are plenty of smaller cities and rural areas in the US that are in much worse shape [[Flint, Gary for example) and don't have the big city positives that we've managed to hold on to.

[Motor City Sam]

Worst is pretty subjective, of course.

I would say we are pretty easily the worst "big" city in the country, for all the obvious reasons. That is, if we can even be counted as a big city anymore. I'd also make the argument that we're the worst major metropolitan area. You essentially get a choice between blight and sprawl. Horrible city/suburb and race relations. No transit to speak of. STILL lousy economy unless you're a car guy. Cost of living is relatively low, but largely because there is so little demand to live here, and so much oversupply of housing/space. People here are generally closed-minded and mean-spirited, and everyone seems to be a breath away from running you off the road or blowing your brains out. Any significant change or innovation is met with not only rejection but derision [[serious conversations that need to be had about transit quickly degenerate into mocking of 'choo-choos')

However there are plenty of smaller cities and rural areas in the US that are in much worse shape [[Flint, Gary for example) and don't have the big city positives that we've managed to hold on to.

That's a good post, Poobert. When this kind of question comes up, what I generally say is that in my experience, having traveled all over the US for business, is that Detroit is the most dysfunctional bit City in the country. Hard to point out anything that the City does well these days.

[brizee]

Worst is pretty subjective, of course.

I would say we are pretty easily the worst "big" city in the country, for all the obvious reasons. That is, if we can even be counted as a big city anymore. I'd also make the argument that we're the worst major metropolitan area. You essentially get a choice between blight and sprawl. Horrible city/suburb and race relations. No transit to speak of. STILL lousy economy unless you're a car guy. Cost of living is relatively low, but largely because there is so little demand to live here, and so much oversupply of housing/space. People here are generally closed-minded and mean-spirited, and everyone seems to be a breath away from running you off the road or blowing your brains out. [/b]Any significant change or innovation is met with not only rejection but derision [[serious conversations that need to be had about transit quickly degenerate into mocking of 'choo-choos')[/b]

Pretty much this.

Have you ever seen the movie Devil's Advocate? Main character's wife is seeing demons everywhere she looks. She is dismissed and mocked whenever she reacts appropriately to a fucked up situation.

It's like we're now paying for 100 years of fucked up leadership and decisions all at once. And people look at you like you're stupid when you suggest the way we've done things isn't the way it should be. Especiially that choo-choo shit. I automatically skip over a post when I see it.

Detroit could be great it's just the peope here that makes it suck and ensures it won't get any better.

[313WX]

Pretty much this.

Have you ever seen the movie Devil's Advocate? Main character's wife is seeing demons everywhere she looks. She is dismissed and mocked whenever she reacts appropriately to a fucked up situation.

It's like we're now paying for 100 years of fucked up leadership and decisions all at once. And people look at you like you're stupid when you suggest the way we've done things isn't the way it should be. Especiially that choo-choo shit. I automatically skip over a post when I see it.

Detroit could be great it's just the peope here that makes it suck and ensures it won't get any better.

Yep.

If you don't have incompetent or corrupt "leaders" running things, you have provincial ones.

FWIW, when Detroit became the great city it was in the early 20th century, it was built by immigrants.

[Detroitnerd]

Well this thread is different than what I am used to posting but here goes.

I was just wondering is Detroit the worst city in the US?

I try to post positive thoughts and others respond with negatively slanted comments as if they can't think positively about The Great Detroit?

Strong! I thought you were only going to post happy thoughts about Detroit! This is quite a change! Now you ask if Detroit is the worst city in the United States! Why the complete 180?

Honestly, Strong, I've lived in Detroit for 10 years. I think you can't just categorically say you're not going to listen to negative statements about Detroit. And you can't demand that other people only say nice things about Detroit.

What you should do, if you want to improve Detroit, is be honest about Detroit. Accept criticisms of Detroit when they are true, and deny them when they are false.

To put it another way, if you started having car trouble, would you just say that it's a great car and demand everybody say it's a great car and not consider taking it to the shop to get fixed? You'd just be heading for worse trouble with your car, right? Then, once it's fixed, it's important to remember what kind of trouble you had in case it breaks down again. Not that you dwell on what broke, but you need to know and be honest about that.

Detroit has some strong suits and some problems. In all honesty, right now it has more problems than strong suits. That is why we post here, to discuss the problems. Some people are more engaged and informed than others, but I do think we have to be frank about what those problems are and what has caused them.

To use the car metaphor: If you're driving a brand-new car with all the latest features and it runs like a top, everybody wants a ride and says how great it is. If you're driving a beaten-up old car that makes awful noises and hardly goes, everybody wants to look under the hood and say what's wrong.

Detroit is the beaten-up car, not the brand-new one.

Thanks for listening.

[southen]

you found a way to promote what you are doing without being all rah-rah-rah... the question posed still has the same amount of substance as the "eastern market is awesome" thread and comes off like the only reason you say anything here is to promote what you are doing...

[MidTownMs]

Well this thread is different than what I am used to posting but here goes.

I was just wondering is Detroit the worst city in the US?

I try to post positive thoughts and others respond with negatively slanted comments as if they can't think positively about The Great Detroit?

I was asked a similar question in an interview by Channel 7's Detroit 2020, here's my response. http://detroit2020.com/2012/10/05/ou...t-at-its-best/

So I was wondering are images like this only in Detroit!

Strong..Make up your mind...is Detroit a great place or the worse place. It can't be both. Why have you all of a sudden flipped the script on your feelings about Detroit. Is it because you did not get the response you desired with your first statement? So which one is it? Reality or Fantasy?

[Strong]

First of all, I was just asking and let me go on record, I love Detroit and think that its a great city, has great and beautiful people, and is getting better. However no way can I overlook our many problems. So I haven't flipped the script at all and I got many threads coming that highlight the positive sides of our city.

Strong..Make up your mind...is Detroit a great place or the worse place. It can't be both. Why have you all of a sudden flipped the script on your feelings about Detroit. Is it because you did not get the response you desired with your first statement? So which one is it? Reality or Fantasy?

[professorscott]

This is an interesting thread but I think the question is overly broad and it would be more helpful to break it down. I would propose the following questions, and in some cases I have a strong opinion:

1. Does Detroit have the worst crime problem among mid size cities? I think not. It's bad, but not the worst.

2. Is metro Detroit the most dysfunctional region in America? Absolutely yes. Thank our state constitution with its ridiculous "home rule", and the racial politics of the last forty years.

3. Does Detroit have the worst schools? Not at all. Some good, some frightful, on a par with other big cities.

4. Does Detroit have the worst neighborhoods? Not at all; but Detroit perhaps has more of its overall land mass swallowed by blight and abandonment than any other mid major city.

5. Does Detroit have the worst transportation? Both for the city and the region, yes; and there's not even a close second. Our roads are crumbling and our transit would be embarrassing to a third-world mayor.

There are parts of civic life where Detroit isn't bad at all, city or region: libraries, parks, museums, access to good live music, etc. But I think if we want to improve things, it is helpful to focus on our biggest problems a la Pareto, rather than just gripe about how bad we are overall. We're not bad overall; we're bad at certain critical things.

[iheartthed]

this is an interesting thread but i think the question is overly broad and it would be more helpful to break it down. I would propose the following questions, and in some cases i have a strong opinion:

1. Does detroit have the worst crime problem among mid size cities? I think not. It's bad, but not the worst.

2. Is metro detroit the most dysfunctional region in america? Absolutely yes. Thank our state constitution with its ridiculous "home rule", and the racial politics of the last forty years.

3. Does detroit have the worst schools? Not at all. Some good, some frightful, on a par with other big cities.

4. Does detroit have the worst neighborhoods? Not at all; but detroit perhaps has more of its overall land mass swallowed by blight and abandonment than any other mid major city.

5. Does detroit have the worst transportation? Both for the city and the region, yes; and there's not even a close second. Our roads are crumbling and our transit would be embarrassing to a third-world mayor.

There are parts of civic life where detroit isn't bad at all, city or region: Libraries, parks, museums, access to good live music, etc. But i think if we want to improve things, it is helpful to focus on our biggest problems a la pareto, rather than just gripe about how bad we are overall. We're not bad overall; we're bad at certain critical things.

iawtc.....

[De'troiter]

This is an interesting thread but I think the question is overly broad and it would be more helpful to break it down. I would propose the following questions, and in some cases I have a strong opinion:

2. Is metro Detroit the most dysfunctional region in America? Absolutely yes. Thank our state constitution with its ridiculous "home rule", and the racial politics of the last forty years.

I think that it is important to acknowledge that racial politics have been used for far longer than the last forty years. Detroit has never been a Utopia for race-relations. From its establishment as Fort Detroit there was fighting between races [[Native People vs White). Beyond those fights, Blacks were not recieved with open arms either, hence the 3 documented riots [[1863, 1943, 1967) and the numerous undocumented tactics used against Blacks. People always describe Detroit as this absolute paradise before Coleman Young was elected. While that may be true for Whites, that was not the reality for thousands of Blacks who were force to live in an unequal city.

It really says something about Detroit of 'Ole, when Charlie LeDeuff's own Grandparents moved to Detroit from Lousiana, built a house in a white neighborhood, and never told their children that they were actually Black, because of fear of the backlash from their "Friendly" White Detroit neighbors. What about Dr. Ossian Sweet or the 1st Black child at Bagley Elementary is the early 1960s who was taunted, threatened and harrassed by White Adult Parents? Talk about Racial Politics. The problem goes far beyond the past 40 years.

[Honky Tonk]

Not to start the 2012 riots, but there was a lot of backlash agianst whites by blacks as well. Which is why you have such a population shift, and Detroit is what it is today.

[MvGuy]

As an old Ex-Detroiter now living on the Island of Martha's Viveyard..... I want to have my say........ No, NO....NO...!!! Not even close.... is my opinion... What people in Detroit who take certain aspects of life as like Greektown as no biggie... To those of us stuck other places with no equivalent destination.. to US it is a treasure.... The Question really is "Has Detroit come down the farthest..?? Fortunately for you there in Detroit the good news is that Detroit still has something going on besides people shuffling around lookin down... Last time I was there [[2005/6) the Cass Corridor still held some alure I do not enjoying betting my hard scammed greenies on games of chance which were designed to fleece the dweebz of 15% of their bet over normal odds, but a downtown Casino is exciting if only to\ watch the faces of those that win and lose... There are many many cities with all of Detroit's problems but have no fun for the intrepid.. Detroit is to hard core to be petty or overtly politically correct... You can say what you want except for racist insults and brain dead disrespect... It's the Wild West in the MidWest.... The cops have REAL problems so they let you be if, you aren't stealing he wires from traffic lights... or stickin guns in peoples faces askin for money... Detroit keeps its folks on their toes.... You never really know what's gonna happen next... or who it will happen to..... But that's true everywhere.... Here where I live now, reckless fishing is a big killer, bad decisions in boats another..... People becoming vegetables after a knock on the noggin with a golf ball.... You never really know.... So enjoy the raw edge and the river and don't let them get you down... America has sold it's soul to globalization and cities and towns are goin down or dyin all around... So has Detroit... but it's still got it's fun..!!

[BFoster]

I think that it is important to acknowledge that racial politics have been used for far longer than the last forty years. Detroit has never been a Utopia for race-relations. From its establishment as Fort Detroit there was fighting between races [[Native People vs White). Beyond those fights, Blacks were not recieved with open arms either, hence the 3 documented riots [[1863, 1943, 1967) and the numerous undocumented tactics used against Blacks. People always describe Detroit as this absolute paradise before Coleman Young was elected. While that may be true for Whites, that was not the reality for thousands of Blacks who were force to live in an unequal city.

It really says something about Detroit of 'Ole, when Charlie LeDeuff's own Grandparents moved to Detroit from Lousiana, built a house in a white neighborhood, and never told their children that they were actually Black, because of fear of the backlash from their "Friendly" White Detroit neighbors. What about Dr. Ossian Sweet or the 1st Black child at Bagley Elementary is the early 1960s who was taunted, threatened and harrassed by White Adult Parents? Talk about Racial Politics. The problem goes far beyond the past 40 years.

"What about Dr. Ossian Sweet or the 1st Black child at Bagley Elementary is the early 1960s who was taunted, threatened and harassed by White Adult Parents?"

De'troiter - There's no doubt about the horror of the Ossian Sweet story, but the Bagley incident you mentioned really caught me by surprise. Has that been discussed in print anywhere? I ask because I was a student there at the time and I remember the first black kids that came there in the early 60's very well, and all I remember is playing with them on the playground, being in classes with them and going to some of their houses after school. Some of those kids were quite well-liked.

I was only 11-12 years old at the time, and perhaps only dimly aware of tension among adults, but I don't remember it affecting the kids, or the black kids being harassed. I'm not saying that harassment by adults didn't happen or couldn't have happened, but I never heard of it until now. You mention harassment of the Bagley kids in the same sentence as Dr. Sweet, so if true, it's something that should be taken seriously. Can you point me to any articles about the incident[[s) or other sources?

[Hermod]

Gary, East St Louis, and Newark give you some competition.

[iheartthed]

Gary, East St Louis, and Newark give you some competition.

Newark actually might be the perfect example to combat the popular ideas of why Detroit is in decline. The popular thought is that Detroit is in decline because of high crime, poor schools, corrupt city government, etc. All of which Newark also has in spades. But Newark's population has been fairly even for the past 20 years, while Detroit has still been on a death spiral. Why has Newark stabilized without significantly improving in any of those areas?

Before someone mentions Cory Booker, keep in mind that Sharpe James -- whose antics could rival Kwame Kilpatrick, and he spent a couple years in the federal pen because of it -- was mayor of Newark from 1986 - 2008... So his tenure pretty much overlaps the stabilization of the city's population.

[Khartoum]

Las Cruces, New Mexico is a far worse city in my eyes.

[cman710]

Newark actually might be the perfect example to combat the popular ideas of why Detroit is in decline. The popular thought is that Detroit is in decline because of high crime, poor schools, corrupt city government, etc. All of which Newark also has in spades. But Newark's population has been fairly even for the past 20 years, while Detroit has still been on a death spiral. Why has Newark stabilized without significantly improving in any of those areas?

Before someone mentions Cory Booker, keep in mind that Sharpe James -- whose antics could rival Kwame Kilpatrick, and he spent a couple years in the federal pen because of it -- was mayor of Newark from 1986 - 2008... So his tenure pretty much overlaps the stabilization of the city's population.

Newark is also a city with many problems, but I don't think that it is comparable to Detroit because it is not the central city in its region. Newark benefits immensely from being near New York City, and its population loss and rebound have loosely correlated with that of New York City. Newark lost 28& of its population from 1970-1990. NYC did not experience as significant a drop in population and its population rebounded a bit earlier, but the timing was similar. Since 1990, New York City has rebounded and real estate in the region has gone up in cost incredibly. Newark has benefited from this because it is cheaper.

While Detroit benefits from being near a major international crossing, it is the main city in the region and cannot benefit from being so close to an economic powerhouse. Unlike in the NYC region, land is also plentiful, so Detroit's low cost has limted attraction, particularly given the horrendous state of city services. This leaves Detroit on its own, whereas Newark can ride NYC's coat tails.

[iheartthed]

Newark is also a city with many problems, but I don't think that it is comparable to Detroit because it is not the central city in its region. Newark benefits immensely from being near New York City, and its population loss and rebound have loosely correlated with that of New York City. Newark lost 28& of its population from 1970-1990. NYC did not experience as significant a drop in population and its population rebounded a bit earlier, but the timing was similar. Since 1990, New York City has rebounded and real estate in the region has gone up in cost incredibly. Newark has benefited from this because it is cheaper.

While Detroit benefits from being near a major international crossing, it is the main city in the region and cannot benefit from being so close to an economic powerhouse. Unlike in the NYC region, land is also plentiful, so Detroit's low cost has limted attraction, particularly given the horrendous state of city services. This leaves Detroit on its own, whereas Newark can ride NYC's coat tails.

Not sure that I agree that Newark rides New York's coattails, but I do agree that NYC and Newark's populations have shown similar trajectories, although Newark lagged New York by about a decade in stopping the populatioin decline. I think the reason that NYC and Nwk's population trajectories are similar is because they are affected by the same land use policies since Nwk is just 8 miles from Manhattan. The NY Metro area, including Newark, is not a fast growing metropolitan area. But the NY area has more urban focused development and transportation policies, which has driven the population growth to urban areas.

[old guy]

Gary, East St Louis, and Newark give you some competition.

East St Louis makes Detroit look like Beverly Hills.

[rb336]

So I was wondering are images like this only in Detroit!

absolutely not. go to Chicago, Cleveland, LA, NY, Bahston, Nashville, Minn/st paul, Dallas

[GUSHI]

Detroit is like a old rusty crappy car, but it's my old rusty , crappy , car so back off Bitches.

Detroit needs to be broken up, eastside, Detroit farms, keep downtown area, ci of Detroit, Palmer woods area Detroit heights, south west, the city of southwest Detroit, have Detroit heights include highland park, leave hamtrmack alone, city let hamtrmack annex part of the east side, split up the police and fire department, assign precints to those new cities and that it, break up dps,

have the archdiocese of Detroit reopen Catholic schools in the city, if the parents decide to send there kid to catholic school, the school should get the money instead of dps, GET Rid of school of choice!

let's the nuns educate the kids of Detroit, and break up the city in order to save it!

[313WX]

MAJOR city, yes.