Malice Green

9mile&seneca · October-03-12, 07:23 PM

I start this thread fully realizing that being labeled a racist in 21st century America is like being accused of being a witch in 17th century Massachusetts. Has there been any discussion about the two innocent cops who were crucified for arresting a thug felon in the fair city? I know that there was, and maybe still is a mural of the wonderful citizen who was a credit to the motor city. I have been thinking on this for some time and decided that I'm going to bring it up and take the flak.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-03-12, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by 9mile&seneca

I start this thread fully realizing that being labeled a racist in 21st century America is like being accused of being a witch in 17th century Massachusetts.

I agree. We all know there are only liberal race baiters who keep lying to minorities trying to convince them racists still exist. Their goal is just to keep minorities down and use them by getting rich off of their misery. Racism ended a good 300 years ago, anyone with a brain knows that. Now, reverse racism on the other hand is running rampant. I can't begin to tell you how many opportunities have been snatched away from innocent hard working white people because of lazy entitlement addled minorities.

9mile&seneca · October-03-12, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

I agree. We all know there are only liberal race baiters who keep lying to minorities trying to convince them racists still exist. Their goal is just to keep minorities down and use them by getting rich off of their misery. Racism ended a good 300 years ago, anyone with a brain knows that. Now, reverse racism on the other hand is running rampant. I can't begin to tell you how many opportunities have been snatched away from innocent hard working white people because of lazy entitlement addled minorities.

Yes, unfortunately, racism still exists. In two distinct varieties. Non acceptable,government sanctionable white on black, and socially acceptable black on white.

**ejames01** · October-03-12, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by 9mile&seneca

Yes, unfortunately, racism still exists. In two distinct varieties. Non acceptable,government sanctionable white on black, and socially acceptable black on white.

Another white guy being oppressed by the black man.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-03-12, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by ejames01

Another white guy being oppressed by the black man.

Black men are some of the most oppressive in this country. Look at how they have taken over the ghettos and jails in this country. Most of the low wage jobs in this country have also been stolen by black men. If you want to be poor, unemployed, inferior education, and on a career path to prison, it is significantly harder to accomplish that as a white man because evil oppressive black men have taken all of those positions from you. I'd be mad if I was white.

9mile&seneca · October-04-12, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Black men are some of the most oppressive in this country. Look at how they have taken over the ghettos and jails in this country. Most of the low wage jobs in this country have also been stolen by black men. If you want to be poor, unemployed, inferior education, and on a career path to prison, it is significantly harder to accomplish that as a white man because evil oppressive black men have taken all of those positions from you. I'd be mad if I was white.

I think I have the solution! See, try and follow this now, how about having the wedding BEFORE the 4 kids!

**brizee** · October-03-12, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by 9mile&seneca

Yes, unfortunately, racism still exists. In two distinct varieties. Non acceptable,government sanctionable white on black, and socially acceptable black on white.

You don't believe this shit.

So why are you trolling?

**DetroitPlanner** · October-03-12, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

You don't believe this shit.

So why are you trolling?

Maybe he is trying to separate the Archie Bunkers from the Jesse Jacksons?

**Django** · October-08-12, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Maybe he is trying to separate the Archie Bunkers from the Jesse Jacksons?

More like Archie Bunker and George Jefferson.

This was another event proving that more people die over drugs than by drugs. [[please dont make me go look up stats). Our Officers are already overburdened but still they have to enforce these worthless laws of zero tolerance of illegal drugs. This incident was fully Drug War Fueled and just like prohibition, pointless.

The United Nations just this past week finally brought up talk of a major change to world wide drug law policy which has always been started and backed by the USA.

Sorry to partially thread-jack the subject but the Malice Greene case is a shining example of the drug wars ridiculousness.

We all need to rethink this war and possible solutions. Legalization, decriminalization, anything but the same old same old.

**gazhekwe** · October-03-12, 07:44 PM

I don't think the cops were so innocent. What could possess them to beat the man's head in with a heavy metal flashlight because he wouldn't open his hand? Don't say they were afraid he had a weapon in there, it was drugs they were looking for by their own admission.

**Zacha341** · October-03-12, 09:08 PM

It was a watershed case certainly. What was always weird to me was that officers Budzyn and Nevers claimed LATE IN THEIR TESTIMONIES that Green went after one of the officers gun during the tussle, thus why they applied lethal force.

I always wondered why this was not presented early on if it were true?

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I don't think the cops were so innocent. What could possess them to beat the man's head in with a heavy metal flashlight because he wouldn't open his hand? Don't say they were afraid he had a weapon in there, it was drugs they were looking for by their own admission.

**p69rrh51** · October-03-12, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I don't think the cops were so innocent. What could possess them to beat the man's head in with a heavy metal flashlight because he wouldn't open his hand? Don't say they were afraid he had a weapon in there, it was drugs they were looking for by their own admission.

One question I never see asked is why didn't Green just open his hand?

**Wheels** · October-03-12, 07:48 PM

Malice in Wonderland was the best analogy that I heard.

**rb336** · October-03-12, 10:48 PM

The two white cops changed their stories more often than their underwear. The one question that was never asked or answered is "what happened to the alleged packet of crack that they claimed Green had in his hand, but wouldn't release?" that was, after all, the first reason they gave for starting to hit him with their clubs. It was never logged in. Never entered into evidence. There was absolutely NO evidence given to support lethal force

**Goose** · October-03-12, 11:57 PM

its pretty cut and dry, no sense re-hashing the entire incident and trial...

two white guys with no past history of racism saw a black guy in the city of detroit [[completly out of place) and decided to cave his skull in for no other reason other than they could..... end of story....

they were tried by jurors that were shown the movie malcom X [[which starts with the rodney king beating), which in no way influenced them, nor did the chief of police and mayor influence anyone by immediate declaring them murderers before ANY evidence was presented...

both Budsyn and Nevers could have just walked away from the confrontational Green and this would have never happened... of course if all police walked away from criminals, you would have something resembling the current state of detroit... so why bother

**brizee** · October-04-12, 01:03 AM

Never mind.

**Zacha341** · October-04-12, 05:49 AM

Well that's a good point...

Originally Posted by Goose

Both Budsyn and Nevers could have just walked away from the confrontational Green and this would have never happened... of course if all police walked away from criminals, you would have something resembling the current state of detroit... so why bother

**EastsideAl** · October-04-12, 02:02 AM

Why bring up now something that happened nearly 20 years ago, which has long since been settled in the court system, and was discussed at length long ago?

I guess what I'm asking is, why be a troll?

**Vic_doucette** · October-04-12, 08:08 AM

I've always wondered about this: There were as many as seven officers present at one time during the Malice Green incident. I assume they all had department-issued weapons -- nightsticks, MACE, etc. How is it that they couldn't subdue one unarmed guy who stood about 5-foot-6 and weighed about 140 pounds soaking wet without beating him to death?

I know, I know -- he was probably high on crack. But seven on one?

I'm not telling you I'd want to live next door to a guy like Malice Green. But he didn't deserve to die the way he did. This was police misconduct, pure and simple.

**Wesley Mouch** · October-04-12, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Vic_doucette

I've always wondered about this: There were as many as seven officers present at one time during the Malice Green incident. I assume they all had department-issued weapons -- nightsticks, MACE, etc. How is it that they couldn't subdue one unarmed guy who stood about 5-foot-6 and weighed about 140 pounds soaking wet without beating him to death?

I know, I know -- he was probably high on crack. But seven on one?

I'm not telling you I'd want to live next door to a guy like Malice Green. But he didn't deserve to die the way he did. This was police misconduct, pure and simple.

Vic,

I assume you've never spent a up-close and personal moment with a crackhead who's angry.

The pleasure has been mine. Along with five or six big security guards and four DPD. I was scared -- for myself and for them.

Like the Rodney King situation, people just have no idea what its like to deal with people who are out of their minds. They are truly dangerous. All they have to do is strike you once in the eye, and you're injured for life. A swift kick to the head, and you've a concussion.

When you are facing a crazed person, you do your utmost to ensure that you leave the scene in one piece.

As I understand the rules, if a suspect resists -- you use whatever force necessary to subdue them -- usually starting with one-level more than they are using. If they continue to resist, you escalate until they are subdued. It is necessary to subdue them to protect yourself, your partner[[s), and the public.

Seven to one is still a very dangerous situation for police officers with a crazed person.

I don't think you can easily judge this unless you've been there. You really want to get home with all your body parts intact.

**Ltdave** · October-04-12, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Vic,

I assume you've never spent a up-close and personal moment with a crackhead who's angry.

The pleasure has been mine. Along with five or six big security guards and four DPD. I was scared -- for myself and for them.

Like the Rodney King situation, people just have no idea what its like to deal with people who are out of their minds. They are truly dangerous. All they have to do is strike you once in the eye, and you're injured for life. A swift kick to the head, and you've a concussion.

When you are facing a crazed person, you do your utmost to ensure that you leave the scene in one piece.

As I understand the rules, if a suspect resists -- you use whatever force necessary to subdue them -- usually starting with one-level more than they are using. If they continue to resist, you escalate until they are subdued. It is necessary to subdue them to protect yourself, your partner[[s), and the public.

Seven to one is still a very dangerous situation for police officers with a crazed person.

I don't think you can easily judge this unless you've been there. You really want to get home with all your body parts intact.

i will concur with everything Wesley has to say. i served as a police officer in oklahoma in the earl 90s. i was on my way home when i heard a call for help from a shift lieutenant at a location about 2-3 blocks away [[we took our radios home with us) so i called in that i was enroute and then called in when i got there. i was officer #6 trying to subdue a guy who was STRAIGHT. the whole mass of humanity that we were rolled off a 4' high porch landing in a pile and one of the officers was kicked in the head breaking his glasses and cutting his ear [[pretty badly or so it looked). my FTO had his shoulder dislocated and 3 fingers broken when he and ONE OFFICER tried to apprehend a punk on speed by themselves. the perp ended with a broken rib and ulna and kept fighting them. i dont remember the other officers injuries...

use of force escalates one step at a time. verbal, physical [[hands), non-lethal weapons [[CS/CN gas, PR-24, now Tasers) then lethal weapons. you use the level of force needed to effect the arrest...

Budzyn and Nevers used what they thought was needed but apparently they over did it. they paid for their decision...

just saying

**Vic_doucette** · October-04-12, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Vic,

I assume you've never spent a up-close and personal moment with a crackhead who's angry.

You're more than right.

I was born with cerebral palsy, grew up in leg braces and have had multiple surgeries related to the condition. I was and am slow, awkward and clumsy. I've never been involved in any meaningful physical fight; I know I can't beat you or outrun you, and nobody looking for any kind of street cred will earn it by kicking my ass. It's as removed from my experience as walking on the moon.

**gnome** · October-04-12, 08:30 AM

I have considered it quite telling that despite the killing of Malice Green being a touchstone for many Detroiters, the painted memorial is covered in graffiti and the site is nothing but another burned out building.

Here is a man who has been mythologized, if not beatified, but when it comes down to reality, his death is memorialized by chip bags, broken wine bottles and spray paint.

A lot of people think Detroiters are great at protesting and chanting and marching and prayer, but not so good with a broom. That is what Malice means to me.

**Lowell** · October-04-12, 09:20 AM

I will have to swing by for an update pic but this Google Street view dated July 2009 shows the mural in decent condition. Interesting is that Google applied it policy of blurring faces to the mural.

Attachment 15903

http://goo.gl/maps/ep5fN

**Motor City Sam** · October-04-12, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

I have considered it quite telling that despite the killing of Malice Green being a touchstone for many Detroiters, the painted memorial is covered in graffiti and the site is nothing but another burned out building.

Here is a man who has been mythologized, if not beatified, but when it comes down to reality, his death is memorialized by chip bags, broken wine bottles and spray paint.

A lot of people think Detroiters are great at protesting and chanting and marching and prayer, but not so good with a broom. That is what Malice means to me.

Actually, Gnome, I don't know anyone who mythologized or beatified Malice Green. Most people I discussed this case with recognize him for what he was, a small time criminal and drug addict. Most of those same people think you shouldn't get the death penalty for that.