Grosse Pointe resident calls Detroit 'third-world country' after robbery

[Patrick]

I dunno if the Detroit side will ever go back to looking like the video from the link below. Maybe a better investment in education would work? Who knows...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMBLD6XcTmM

[Shollin]

Several forumers have mentioned how Harper Woods has fallen...but just how bad has it fallen in recent years. Last summer I drove through HW and it seemed well-kept and cosmetically nice.If Harper Woods grows worse, how will that affect GP on the long-term?

Harper Woods has strict blight enforcement. It looks great. The problem is, Eastland is a breeding ground for crime and burglaries happen constantly. Car jackings had become common at Eastland, as well as shootings. The Eastland Village apartments also gained a reputation for drugs. Lots of thefts and usually a couple shootings a year.

[Alley]

That's crappy journalism :\ The writer took a quote from The Patch, used it as his headline, and then basically regurgitated the rest of the Patch article. Clearly, he was looking to raise eyebrows and that's about it.

[GUSHI]

I hate to burst your bubble, but most of Detroit is a shit hole, I have been to some pretty poor countries, even they make most of Detroit look like a shit hole.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...t_calls_d.html

A few observations:

I'd venture to say "Detroit is a third world country" is probably a pretty common phrase in the Pointes, right up there with "Jeeves, bring the Bentley around." A more striking headline would be "Grosse Pointe Resident Calls Detroit 'a pretty nice place'

However while said footpad likely does not reside on Lakeshore Drive [[aka Jefferson to the rest of the world), there is something a little ironic about getting robbed in Grosse Pointe by an unknown assailant and then blaming it on Detroit.

I travel a lot, and if I ever get pick-pocketed in another city I'll exclaim, "Detroit is such a shithole!"

Still goes to show you - you can run, but you can't hide. Say homeboy is in fact from Detroit. Detroit has been the defacto holding cell for poverty and crime in the Metro region for decades but what makes anyone think they can just ignore it and it will conveniently stay there?

I'm on the other side of Mack and while Morningside and parts of Cornerstone can be pretty rough [[Morningside especially) East English Village, Audobon, and the area around St. John is still pretty nice. I'm sorry they got robbed but being called a victim by Mitt Romney and now the resident of third world country by this guy in one week is kind of rough.

[Lowell]

Detroit is the opposite of most third world cities I have lived in and visited.

Both are donuts. In the third world cities upper classes are in the hole surrounded by a deep donut of poverty.

Detroit is opposite. In the hole a sea of poverty, with some islands of stability, surrounded by a deep donut of prosperity.

Additionally the hole is depopulating and the inner edge of the donut is rotting.

We have face a unique challenge that only can be solved when all parties decide to cooperate.

Otherwise we face the rolling tide of blight as dmike describes above.

[aj3647]

I'm sorry they got robbed but being called a victim by Mitt Romney and now the resident of third world country by this guy in one week is kind of rough.

If it bothers you that a single individual said something bad about Detroit, then you need to grow thicker skin.

And given the copious amount of suburb-bashing that takes place around here [[and not just Suburb bashing, I've seen people here bash Toronto, Chicago and other cities as well), I would add that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Shollin]

If it bothers you that a single individual said something bad about Detroit, then you need to grow thicker skin.

And given the copious amount of suburb-bashing that takes place around here [[and not just Suburb bashing, I've seen people here bash Toronto, Chicago and other cities as well), I would add that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Especially when he himself has insulted people in the suburbs.

[poobert]

Especially when he himself has insulted people in the suburbs.

Sorry for starting this sweet thread since I've expressed opinions in the past.

[Shollin]

Sorry for starting this sweet thread since I've expressed opinions in the past.

Just enjoying the irony of you crying about someone calling Detroit a third world city when you yourself insults suburbanites.

[jerrytimes]

I hate to burst your bubble, but most of Detroit is a shit hole, I have been to some pretty poor countries, even they make most of Detroit look like a shit hole.

When did this happen!!!??? You must be joking!.......... sorry, I couldn't help it.

[EastsideAl]

One tragic event that I have rarely seen discussed here is bussing and its long lasting effects on the city. Would there have been as much white flight from the city if bussing had not been ordered by the courts?

In reality, although a lot of folks were seemingly gnashing their teeth over the possibility of white kids going to school with actual black children, busing had almost no effect in Detroit.

By the time it was implemented, after the long legal fight over the original cross-district plan was over, DPS's student population was already about 80% black. And ongoing demographic trends [[wealthier families moving out of the city at a consistent rate & a continuing decrease in the average number of children in white families vs. black families) meant that the racial disparities in the school system would have increased with or without busing. That's why busing for desegregation was abandoned here after just a few years. There was really little or no 'desegregating' to be done.

[MidTownMs]

Of course just like all those new to the city need to pronounce Gratiot properly! Everywhere you go has its own standards!

When was the last time you heard anybody pronounce Detroit properly?

[Zacha341]

GOOD POINT! You rarely here the french pronunciation!

When was the last time you heard anybody pronounce Detroit properly?

[p69rrh51]

In reality, although a lot of folks were seemingly gnashing their teeth over the possibility of white kids going to school with actual black children, busing had almost no effect in Detroit.

By the time it was implemented, after the long legal fight over the original cross-district plan was over, DPS's student population was already about 80% black. And ongoing demographic trends [[wealthier families moving out of the city at a consistent rate & a continuing decrease in the average number of children in white families vs. black families) meant that the racial disparities in the school system would have increased with or without busing. That's why busing for desegregation was abandoned here after just a few years. There was really little or no 'desegregating' to be done.

You are correct by the time it was implemented there were too few to be bused. But then if the whole fight over busing had not happened, would the system had been at 80% black at that point? What was the percentage of white students when busing was first proposed? Also even then there were those who still thought busing was great idea when all they were doing was shipping students all over the city needlessly. How much money was lost on that failed experiment? I believe busing did have a big effect on the city in the form of lost local control of individual schools and to give one last push for white flight in the city.

[canuck]

GOOD POINT! You rarely here the french pronunciation!

As far as Gratiot is concerned, I think the true pronunciation in french would be "Grass-Yo". The "t" becomes an "ss" sound before the "io" particle I believe. I'm a native french speaker, but I am still unsure about how the french pronounce it on the other side of the pond.

[bailey]

Detroit is the opposite of most third world cities I have lived in and visited.

Both are donuts. In the third world cities upper classes are in the hole surrounded by a deep donut of poverty.

Detroit is opposite. In the hole a sea of poverty, with some islands of stability, surrounded by a deep donut of prosperity.

Additionally the hole is depopulating and the inner edge of the donut is rotting.

We have face a unique challenge that only can be solved when all parties decide to cooperate.

Otherwise we face the rolling tide of blight as dmike describes above.

You're confabulating Detroit-city of with Metro Detroit.

"Detroit" and Metro Detroit are two different things in this discussion. Detroit, city of... is the exact thing you describe. CBD and some central neighborhoods "thrive" while surrounded by poverty.

DETROIT is the third world city [[and yes, i understand we're using a more colloquial versus literal/cold war definition of "third world") here. The surrounding communities of metropolitan Detroit are not. Very little of what is considered normal in Detroit would be tolerated in any other local municipality.

[iheartthed]

You're confabulating Detroit-city of with Metro Detroit.

"Detroit" and Metro Detroit are two different things in this discussion. Detroit, city of... is the exact thing you describe. CBD and some central neighborhoods "thrive" while surrounded by poverty.

DETROIT is the third world city [[and yes, i understand we're using a more colloquial versus literal/cold war definition of "third world") here. The surrounding communities of metropolitan Detroit are not. Very little of what is considered normal in Detroit would be tolerated in any other local municipality.

Does your definition of "Third World" consist of something other than poor and deteriorated? Because that's like saying "Oh the sun shines in Detroit sometimes and it does that in the Third World too so Detroit looks 'Third World.'" Poverty is not something unique to the Third World... You can find that in most major areas in America.

[Bham1982]

I don't think Detroit is anything like a third-world city.

Third world cities are growing, entreprenuerial, and marked by very dramatic divisions between rich and poor. They tend to be their nations' wealth and growth centers.

They funnel huge numbers of poor [[especially young males) from rural agricultural regions into the urban maelstrom. The money made in third world cities sustains rural communities, as the young males send money back to their families.

Detroit is pretty much nothing like a third world city, outside of the fact that both are dysfunctional.

[bailey]

Does your definition of "Third World" consist of something other than poor and deteriorated? Because that's like saying "Oh the sun shines in Detroit sometimes and it does that in the Third World too so Detroit looks 'Third World.'" Poverty is not something unique to the Third World... You can find that in most major areas in America.

Really? c'mon. 50+% functional illiteracy is not something you find in most major areas in America. 32 murders in 15 days is not something you find in most major areas in America. Massive abandonment, squalor, blight, and neglect is not something you find in most major area in america. Detroit- City of, tops out the scales on just about every negative quality of life measurement out there from obesity to unemployment to education to access to basic necessities of life for the poor.

Pretending that Detroit doesn't bare a striking resemblance to to a failed state/third world city/banana republic dictatorship.... whatever definition you wish to use is not solving the problem. Taking issue with the semantics of it is just silly. And no.. Detroit is not the ONLY place in the US that the moniker of "third world" can be applied.

[iheartthed]

Really? c'mon. 50+% functional illiteracy is not something you find in most major areas in America. 32 murders in 15 days is not something you find in most major areas in America. Massive abandonment, squalor, blight, and neglect is not something you find in most major area in america. Detroit- City of, tops out the scales on just about every negative quality of life measurement out there from obesity to unemployment to education to access to basic necessities of life for the poor.

Pretending that Detroit doesn't bare a striking resemblance to to a failed state/third world city/banana republic dictatorship.... whatever definition you wish to use is not solving the problem. Taking issue with the semantics of it is just silly. And no.. Detroit is not the ONLY place in the US that the moniker of "third world" can be applied.

It's not semantics that I'm taking issue with... I'm taking issue with people are shocked to find that poverty exists in America. What's more, when they are confronted with poverty in America they take great strains to reclassify it. I think that's why people like the Grosse Pointe resident in the community meeting choose to call it "Third World" rather than what it is: poverty. Grosse Pointe is an island of wealth situated next to a sea of poverty.

[oladub]

In reality, although a lot of folks were seemingly gnashing their teeth over the possibility of white kids going to school with actual black children, busing had almost no effect in Detroit.

By the time it was implemented, after the long legal fight over the original cross-district plan was over, DPS's student population was already about 80% black. And ongoing demographic trends [[wealthier families moving out of the city at a consistent rate & a continuing decrease in the average number of children in white families vs. black families) meant that the racial disparities in the school system would have increased with or without busing. That's why busing for desegregation was abandoned here after just a few years. There was really little or no 'desegregating' to be done.

Bussing greatly accelerated white flight from Detroit, my family included. The other hammer that came down accelerating white flight was the '67 riot.

Back on topic: The 'third world' concept was inappropriate. There are some third world statistics coming out of Detroit such as infant mortality among blacks and high school graduation rates but the fellow was referring to violence rather than socio-economic statistics. Many third world countries have more intact family structures with fathers present and lower crime rates than Detroit. In a way, it was sort of a dis on third world countries.

[poobert]

Let's go with second world. Prevalent alcoholism, boring, culture of dependency, indefatigable bureaucracy, lack of retail establishments, dreary and grey much of the year, clinging to heavy industry and government for jobs, rampant nepotism...

[iheartthed]

Let's go with second world. Prevalent alcoholism, boring, culture of dependency, indefatigable bureaucracy, lack of retail establishments, dreary and grey much of the year, clinging to heavy industry and government for jobs, rampant nepotism...

Shrinking urban populations is a characteristic of some Second World cities, unlike Third World cities. However, shrinking urban populations is also a characteristic of many First World cities too...

I think the catchall term should be Post Industrial.