Grosse Pointe resident calls Detroit 'third-world country' after robbery

[poobert]

Also stop whining and be part of the solution!

Okay buddy, you want to scrap in the yard? In the immortal words of Kay Everett, I'm about to go eastside on you.

I don't just go to see pretty churches in the city and drive back to the suburbs. I live in the city. I bought a vacant home and cleaned it up real pretty to be part of the solution, and because I like the neighborhood. I pay my taxes - lots of them. I look out for my neighbors, who are also my friends. I cut the grass of vacant houses on my block. I serve on the board of my neighborhood association which essentially amounts to a second full-time job. What does this entail, you might ask? Everything from endless meetings to cleaning up disgusting fucked-up houses. At the end of the day it is a thankless job, just like my real job, except I don't get paid for it. Since you want to get religious on me, I belong to a parish in the city that is in constant danger of closing. Contrary to your beliefs - I'm not lazy. In fact I'm not nearly poor, either, and I'm a patron and member of certain Clubs and cultural institutions of the city.

You don't know me, and have made it clear you don't know or understand Detroit or Detroiters. You only have your prejudices. You're in your own orbit, homie.

[p69rrh51]

Okay buddy, you want to scrap in the yard? In the immortal words of Kay Everett, I'm about to go eastside on you.

I don't just go to see pretty churches in the city and drive back to the suburbs. I live in the city. I bought a vacant home and cleaned it up real pretty to be part of the solution, and because I like the neighborhood. I pay my taxes - lots of them. I look out for my neighbors, who are also my friends. I cut the grass of vacant houses on my block. I serve on the board of my neighborhood association which essentially amounts to a second full-time job. What does this entail, you might ask? Everything from endless meetings to cleaning up disgusting fucked-up houses. At the end of the day it is a thankless job, just like my real job, except I don't get paid for it. Since you want to get religious on me, I belong to a parish in the city that is in constant danger of closing. Contrary to your beliefs - I'm not lazy. In fact I'm not nearly poor, either, and I'm a patron and member of certain Clubs and cultural institutions of the city.

You don't know me, and have made it clear you don't know or understand Detroit or Detroiters. You only have your prejudices. You're in your own orbit, homie.

I grew up in your neighborhood, went to DPS schools and I choose to live wear my family is safe! I am know this city FAR better than you! You just do not like those that disagree with you. I am also involved so my city will not go the way of other suburbs in the area! Also I am glad to hear that you do try to make a difference let us know that more often! But when its all said and done Detroit and Wayne County needs us way more than than we need them. In the words of George Crockett they[[The Grosse Pointes) do not need to be governed.

[Danny]

Harper Woods is definately 50% black and 45% white. When I was a kid in 1990 where my family tip toe through Harper Rd I-94 FWY. and Vernier Rd. Harper Woods was 90% white I didn't see a single black family pass Beaconsfield St. Even some parts of East Side Detroit from Gratiot Ave to Kelly, Morang and Morross was 85% white. My family would be fine to move over there after my cousin moved to E. Outer Drive near Chandler Park Rd. Now the area is getting a little bit ghetto-ized! even Harper Woods and parts of Richville [[Grosse Pointe) is experiencing the sudden white flight.

[p69rrh51]

Harper Woods is definately 50% black and 45% white. When I was a kid in 1990 where my family tip toe through Harper Rd I-94 FWY. and Vernier Rd. Harper Woods was 90% white I didn't see a single black family pass Beaconsfield St. Even some parts of East Side Detroit from Gratiot Ave to Kelly, Morang and Morross was 85% white. My family would be fine to move over there after my cousin moved to E. Outer Drive near Chandler Park Rd. Now the area is getting a little bit ghetto-ized! even Harper Woods and parts of Richville [[Grosse Pointe) is experiencing the sudden white flight.

Yes the Pointes have been experiencing white flight, but whats very interesting is that those who are moving in are assimilating. Except for the expected problems in the schools not much has changed here. Also right now there are so few homes for sale the realtors I know are crying about the lack of homes to sell so the white flight theory is on the back burner for now.

[gameguy56]

Yes the Pointes have been experiencing white flight, but whats very interesting is that those who are moving in are assimilating. Except for the expected problems in the schools not much has changed here. Also right now there are so few homes for sale the realtors I know are crying about the lack of homes to sell so the white flight theory is on the back burner for now.

What do you mean by assimilating?

[Shollin]

Harper Woods is definately 50% black and 45% white. When I was a kid in 1990 where my family tip toe through Harper Rd I-94 FWY. and Vernier Rd. Harper Woods was 90% white I didn't see a single black family pass Beaconsfield St. Even some parts of East Side Detroit from Gratiot Ave to Kelly, Morang and Morross was 85% white. My family would be fine to move over there after my cousin moved to E. Outer Drive near Chandler Park Rd. Now the area is getting a little bit ghetto-ized! even Harper Woods and parts of Richville [[Grosse Pointe) is experiencing the sudden white flight.

I lived in the late 80's before I moved to Harper Woods, at 8 Mile and Scheonherr and even all the way down to Schoenherr was about 60% white at the time even down there.

[313WX]

And yet people cluelessly wohnder why Detroiters don't want to deal with these people when it comes to restructuring the city's debt and Belle Isle.

[p69rrh51]

What do you mean by assimilating?

Settling in and living in harmony with the longtime residents as well as taking advantage of all the things the Pointes have to offer!

[gameguy56]

Settling in and living in harmony with the longtime residents as well as taking advantage of all the things the Pointes have to offer!

Oh yeah. I also wonder if Grosse Pointe Park will one day give off a more 'Ferndale' type vibe along Charlevoix and Kercheval near Alter. GPP has a truly marvelous built environment.

[iheartthed]

This why I, and I think many other Detroiters, cringe and react badly when people start in with the "3rd world city" talk. Because, although Detroit does have some superficial resemblance to cities in the developing world, what it mostly sounds like is a none-too-subtle code for "city full of uncivilized black people".

Several things make me cringe about referring to Detroit as "Third World". The first being that anyone who is referring to Detroit as "Third World" doesn't really understand what the term means, nor do they understand the irony of calling Detroit "Third World". Second, few places we refer to as "Third World" were ever industrialized. Third, obviously there is the color issue...

[iheartthed]

What do you mean by assimilating?

Clearly people moving from Detroit had to demonstrate proficiency in Grossepointish, the official language of Grosse Pointe, in order to gain residency status.

[p69rrh51]

Oh yeah. I also wonder if Grosse Pointe Park will one day give off a more 'Ferndale' type vibe along Charlevoix and Kercheval near Alter. GPP has a truly marvelous built environment.

Would be very nice but the one thing that Grosse Pointers love about living here is also our worst enemy. The Lake cuts off half of the theoretical patrons for any establishment, not many are willing to take that risk. One of the reasons there are so few big box establishments here. Also of all the Pointes the Park is my favorite due to that very environment.

[p69rrh51]

Clearly people moving from Detroit had to demonstrate proficiency in Grossepointish, the official language of Grosse Pointe, in order to gain residency status.

Of course just like all those new to the city need to pronounce Gratiot properly! Everywhere you go has its own standards!

[Shollin]

Of course just like all those new to the city need to pronounce Gratiot properly! Everywhere you go has its own standards!

I heard one person pronounce it Gra-toyt.

[Jimaz]

...This why I, and I think many other Detroiters, cringe and react badly when people start in with the "3rd world city" talk....

I wanted to refresh my memory of the meaning of "third world" so I went to that "third world" of encyclopedias, Wikipedia, to find this:

The term Third World arose during the Cold War to define countries that remained non-aligned with either capitalism and NATO [[which along with its allies represented the First World), or communism and the Soviet Union [[which along with its allies represented the Second World). This definition provided a way of broadly categorizing the nations of the earth into three groups based on social, political, and economic divisions. Due to many of the Third World countries being extremely poor, it became a stereotype such that people commonly refer to undeveloped countries as "third world countries," often used in a pejorative way. Over the last few decades, the term 'Third World' has been used interchangeably with the Global South and Developing Countries to describe poorer countries that have struggled to attain steady economic development.

Third World countries includes most of Africa, Latin America, and Asia. However some exceptions exist to this rule. Some European countries were part of the non-aligned movement and a few were and are very prosperous, including Switzerland and Austria. In the so-called dependency theory of thinkers like Raul Prebisch, Theotonio dos Santos, and Andre Gunder Frank, the Third World has also been connected to the world economic division as "periphery" countries in the world system that is dominated by the "core" countries. Due to the complex history of evolving meanings and contexts, there is no clear or agreed upon definition of the Third World and the term is now less popular than it was during the 1970s and 1980s.

I thought the bolded part of the definition was pretty ironic in the case of Detroit.

Also note the final sentence. The phrase just doesn't mean that much anymore.

Edit: I didn't read iheartthed's irony comment until after posting the above.

[Kevgoblue]

Yes the Pointes have been experiencing white flight, but whats very interesting is that those who are moving in are assimilating. Except for the expected problems in the schools not much has changed here. Also right now there are so few homes for sale the realtors I know are crying about the lack of homes to sell so the white flight theory is on the back burner for now.

That's because the problem isn't "those" who are moving in. The problem is socioeconomic. Problems occur when property values plummet and undereducated, low income folks can afford the neighborhood. When well educated, well employed people move in there are rarely ever problems. Regardless of that person's race, nation of origin or sexual orientation.

But instead of working to find more effective ways to educate people we run. We run to the next exurb of cookie cutter McMansions and build more jails. Then we bitch and complain about gas prices when we live 50 miles from our jobs. We bitch because the cost of college is increasing at 3x the rate of inflation as a result of the state reducing funding for education so they can increase spending on prisons.

[iheartthed]

I wanted to refresh my memory of the meaning of "third world" so I went to that "third world" of encyclopedias, Wikipedia, to find this:

I thought the bolded part of the definition was pretty ironic in the case of Detroit.

Also note the final sentence. The phrase just doesn't mean that much anymore.

Yup, "Third World" countries didn't fit into the strategic vision of the Super Powers so they were ignored and denied participation in the two major global economic systems. In that respect, "Third World" does sound a lot like Detroit, but that's not the way that most of the people using the term are thinking.

[p69rrh51]

That's because the problem isn't "those" who are moving in. The problem is socioeconomic. Problems occur when property values plummet and undereducated, low income folks can afford the neighborhood. When well educated, well employed people move in there are rarely ever problems. Regardless of that person's race, nation of origin or sexual orientation.

But instead of working to find more effective ways to educate people we run. We run to the next exurb of cookie cutter McMansions and build more jails. Then we bitch and complain about gas prices when we live 50 miles from our jobs. We bitch because the cost of college is increasing at 3x the rate of inflation as a result of the state reducing funding for education so they can increase spending on prisons.

I agree education is far and away the most important problem! Where do you start in Detroit? The school system has not done the job and the residents at times can be part of the problem [[one of my customers is a DPS teacher and has been been threatened for not giving out grades the parents think the children deserve). My mother started the first head start program in the DPS schools in the 1960's. Even then the students and parents resisted and wanted her to rubber stamp them. She became so frustrated that she left for a suburban school system. One tragic event that I have rarely seen discussed here is bussing and its long lasting effects on the city. Would there have been as much white flight from the city if bussing had not been ordered by the courts? If the white population had remained to a greater degree than it is now would the educational system here be as bad as it is?
It seems like we would have to throw away an entire generation to start fresh and nobody wants to do that.

[Shollin]

That's because the problem isn't "those" who are moving in. The problem is socioeconomic. Problems occur when property values plummet and undereducated, low income folks can afford the neighborhood. When well educated, well employed people move in there are rarely ever problems. Regardless of that person's race, nation of origin or sexual orientation.

But instead of working to find more effective ways to educate people we run. We run to the next exurb of cookie cutter McMansions and build more jails. Then we bitch and complain about gas prices when we live 50 miles from our jobs. We bitch because the cost of college is increasing at 3x the rate of inflation as a result of the state reducing funding for education so they can increase spending on prisons.

So what am I suppose to do with the person breaking into my house, educate him? I love how people can turn the criminals into victims.

[Patrick]

Might be a little off-topic, but does anyone predict that more streets will eventually be blocked off like what happened with Korte at Alter? Avondale, Essex, Fairfax all travel into Alter...I don't have an opinion about the blocked streets being good or bad, but I understand that many folks on the GP side have wanted the streets blocked off.


Thoughts?

[Shollin]

Might be a little off-topic, but does anyone predict that more streets will eventually be blocked off like what happened with Korte at Alter? Avondale, Essex, Fairfax all travel into Alter...I don't have an opinion about the blocked streets being good or bad, but I understand that many folks on the GP side have wanted the streets blocked off.


Thoughts?

They've been talking about that for decades. They've even proposed that in Harper Woods.

[Patrick]

They've been talking about that for decades. They've even proposed that in Harper Woods.

Would it be effective in preventing crime? Hell, people have talked about doing that in IV and Bost-Edison. I know Palmer Woods had to block off a few streets, but not sure what they ended up doing.

[D_Town]

Would it be effective in preventing crime? Hell, people have talked about doing that in IV and Bost-Edison. I know Palmer Woods had to block off a few streets, but not sure what they ended up doing.

I think Palmer Woods was looking at being a gated community. I think they actually blocked off some streets in Southfield that touched 8 mile between Evergreen and Greenfield if I recall.

[Patrick]

Several forumers have mentioned how Harper Woods has fallen...but just how bad has it fallen in recent years. Last summer I drove through HW and it seemed well-kept and cosmetically nice.If Harper Woods grows worse, how will that affect GP on the long-term?

[mwilbert]

I know Palmer Woods had to block off a few streets, but not sure what they ended up doing.

I don't know if they "had" to, but they did block off a number of entrances to the neighborhood a couple of years ago, but the barricades were temporary water-filled containers, which were subsequently removed. As far as I can tell they are all gone now.