Businesses seem to be moving in, why not our media?

[Vic_doucette]

OK... I'll bite.... if it's so difficult to move... then how did WTVS Channel 56 slink out to Wixom just a few years back...when there was such a storm of protest by both politicians and the movers & shakers when they announced that they were looking for another site to replace their cramped space in New Center?

Because they were moving into a turnkey operation, an existing TV production facility whose previous owners had gone out of business. It was there for the taking.

The FCC wouldn't care WHERE the station was located, but they would have to approve the engineering of the microwave relay systems. The hop from Novi to the Southfield transmitter site was probably pretty simple, but I'm not an engineer and that's only a guess. To go from downtown to the Oakland County transmitter sites would be more complicated, more expensive and harder to get FCC approval.

[Bham1982]

I do agree that the Wixom location is strange, especially for a public television station.

One issue for CBS and ABC may be convenience. I suspect a large number of local newscasters lives in the Bloomfield/Birmingham area. I have two prominent ones who are almost neighbors, and a third I see eating brunch practically every Sunday.

[Vic_doucette]

Any civic institution in the metro area that builds new instead of reusing is doing a disservice to the community.

See my previous post. Detroit Public Television was reusing an existing facility when it moved to Novi. As a supporter of public broadcasting, I applaud this intelligent use of my tax dollars and the money I pony up during pledge time.

[bailey]

I do agree that the Wixom location is strange, especially for a public television station.

One issue for CBS and ABC may be convenience. I suspect a large number of local newscasters lives in the Bloomfield/Birmingham area. I have two prominent ones who are almost neighbors, and a third I see eating brunch practically every Sunday.

While that may be true. Running a series called Detroit 2020 with a slogan of "Unify. Inspire. Act" while sitting on their asses in Southfield is ridiculous. Frankly they are contributing...by removing themselves from the tax base...to the problems they are allegedly trying to help solve. Relocating to Detroit would do more good than a weekly fluff piece on some hipster kickstarter project.

[Vic_doucette]

Relocating to Detroit would do more good than a weekly fluff piece on some hipster kickstarter project.

The old business model for broadcasting doesn't work anymore. The stations don't pull in anywhere near the money they used to, just like newspapers and other forms of traditional media.

WXYZ, in particular, is dealing with this by cutting expenses. [[The other stations are also doing it, but it is most noticeable at Channel 7 because they have so many long-term employees on the air.)

As veteran, high-priced employees come up for contract renewal [[Erik Smith, Diana Lewis, Val Clark, Steve Wilson, etc.), their contracts are either not renewed, or they are offered much less money than they have been making. The employees are either discharged or they turn down the contract, and another "retirement" party is held.

In turn, the retiring employees are usually being replaced by young, relatively inexperienced talent that earns a fraction of what the old-timers made. Scott Lewis came in to replace Steve Wilson, and he might be something of an exception, but I'd be willing to bet he makes less money than Steve Wilson did. The youngsters, while not as good, cost much less. And cost, more than anything else, is what's driving media decisions today.

So, pretend I manage WXYZ-TV. The station is pulling in a lot less money than it once did, just like pretty much every other media outlet in town. The audience is shrinking due to increased competition from other media sources and the Internet. My bosses have entrusted me to bring costs into line with revenue. My ass is on the line if I don't get this done.

Now, explain to me how spending millions of dollars that I don't have to create a studio in Detroit that I don't need to replace a studio in Southfield [[and, by the way, Broadcast House is hardly a "suburban bunker") that works just fine makes sense.

Will I make enough money to earn all of that back, plus profits? No.

Will I get more viewers by doing that? No.

Will advertisers be more eager to buy time on the station if I do that? No.

Unless you can make an economic case for such a move, it isn't going to happen.

What you want is a pipe dream. Maybe it's time to put down the pipe.

[iheartthed]

Now, explain to me how spending millions of dollars that I don't have to create a studio in Detroit that I don't need to replace a studio in Southfield [[and, by the way, Broadcast House is hardly a "suburban bunker") that works just fine makes sense.

I think Broadcast House is the textbook definition of a suburban bunker...

Anywho, I agree that it doesn't make financial sense to rip everything up and move back into the city... However, does it really require you to move the entire "house" downtown in order to rent some space, build a studio and broadcast a show?

Since it has the only locally produced morning show in Detroit, why doesn't Fox 2 lease out one of the dozens of empty store fronts around Campus Martius and begin broadcasting their morning show from there? You can walk up to the building where WABC is located in Manhattan and watch the actual local news broadcasts through a window from the sidewalk. You can walk through Rockefeller Plaza at any time of the day and see the set of the Today Show from the sidewalk. If a Detroit station would do this it could be a buzz [[and revenue) generator that would be pretty cheap do pull off. Seems like lack of imagination is what's holding them back...

[Vic_doucette]

iheartthed, you just don't get it. What you are suggesting will increase costs and not add to revenue. Therefore, it won't get done, however noble the idea.

It costs more, is more complicated and more aggravating than you and I know. When a station is in crisis-management mode and under orders to bring expenses in line with revenues, management will look at every item in the budget, right down to the vending machines, to see where they can do it cheaper.

Every broadcast general manager I've ever known or worked for had a checkbook for a heart and a calculator for a brain. That didn't mean that they weren't nice people, but those qualities are mandatory for success in a cutthroat business.

There will be no move downtown until somebody thinks they can make money doing it.

[bailey]

iheartthed, you just don't get it. What you are suggesting will increase costs and not add to revenue. Therefore, it won't get done, however noble the idea.

It costs more, is more complicated and more aggravating than you and I know. When a station is in crisis-management mode and under orders to bring expenses in line with revenues, management will look at every item in the budget, right down to the vending machines, to see where they can do it cheaper.

Every broadcast general manager I've ever known or worked for had a checkbook for a heart and a calculator for a brain. That didn't mean that they weren't nice people, but those qualities are mandatory for success in a cutthroat business.

There will be no move downtown until somebody thinks they can make money doing it.

Vic, I don't think you're getting it. WXYZ is running a program called Detroit 2020...which states:

Our goal is to unify, inspire change and help make Detroit a better place to live, work and raise families.

I understand the dollars and cents decision of moving to and staying in Southfield. However, it's just ridiculous that they sit there in Southfield and pretend to be "leading" a discussion on how to make Detroit better. WXYZ choosing a suburban location is part of the problem they are dedicating precious dollars and resources trying to solve.

[MidTownMs]

Maybe because those downtowns were also transportation hubs. Detroit was once a transportation hub of one of the most comprehensive interurban networks in the country. Thank Pingree, Couzens, and the various Detroit newspapers and their ongoing war against Detroit United Railways for killing that. The Detroit downtown became irrelevant.

Forty years ago Detroit was a lot of things. Most of you seem reasonably intelligent. So why then is it so difficult for you to understand why the TV stations don't want to be in Detroit. I don't get all of this back and forth speculation as to why the TV stations aren't in Detroit. The fact is THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE IN DETROIT. Why? For the same reason major retailers, restaurant, and grocery store chains don't want to be in Detroit. For the same reason some of you, myself included, left Detroit. And why some of you have never been to Detroit, will not go to Detroit, or would ever consider living in Detroit. I don't need to list the reasons because most of you already know.

[313WX]

It's sort of sweet poetic justice now.

All of these corporations decided it would be a great idea to move their operations from big bad mean "Detroit" to the safe, low-cost boonies and now they're struggling in one form or another [[such as the budget cuts at WXYZ which are augmented by the fact that we're no longer a top 5 or top 10 market) because the entire region has stagnated and is rapidly shrinking relative to the rest of the country without a strong core.

Talk about a penny wise, pound foolish.

[iheartthed]

iheartthed, you just don't get it. What you are suggesting will increase costs and not add to revenue. Therefore, it won't get done, however noble the idea.

Ya know how the saying goes, change or die. If what you say is true then it sounds like the local news stations aren't long for this world. The idea is not meant to be noble or charity. It's a forward thinking idea that no local media outlet has yet to explore.

[Det_ard]

Ya know how the saying goes, change or die. If what you say is true then it sounds like the local news stations aren't long for this world. The idea is not meant to be noble or charity. It's a forward thinking idea that no local media outlet has yet to explore.

The idea is purely an ego stroke for the Detroitists who feel slighted by having most major media outlets outside the city. Having studios in Southfield isn't holding Detroit back one bit, and broadcasting from Woodward isn't going to result in some phoenix-like rising Detroit. Talk about your peripheral issues...

[Vic_doucette]

The idea is purely an ego stroke for the Detroitists who feel slighted by having most major media outlets outside the city. Having studios in Southfield isn't holding Detroit back one bit, and broadcasting from Woodward isn't going to result in some phoenix-like rising Detroit. Talk about your peripheral issues...

Exactly, det_ard.

[iheartthed]

The idea is purely an ego stroke for the Detroitists who feel slighted by having most major media outlets outside the city. Having studios in Southfield isn't holding Detroit back one bit, and broadcasting from Woodward isn't going to result in some phoenix-like rising Detroit. Talk about your peripheral issues...

I think you just wanted to say "ego stroke" in a sentence.

I haven't read one response to this thread that insinuated anything about lack of TV studios holding Detroit back. So far the supportive responses have been of roughly three categories: 1) why hasn't the media joined in the perceived back to the city movement [[original post), 2) why is the local media being hypocritical by claiming to be so pro-Detroit while not putting its own money where its mouth is [[2020 Detroit discussion), or 3) why hasn't the media capitalized on the renewed interest in the city by broadcasting a local show from downtown [[me)?

[Detroitnerd]

Also, I don't know if this was mentioned, but Southfield, IIRC, stands on land that is slightly elevated, compared to the rest of the metro. Even being on ground that is just a little bit higher makes sense when you consider the height you have to attain with the tower.

[bailey]

The idea is purely an ego stroke for the Detroitists who feel slighted by having most major media outlets outside the city. Having studios in Southfield isn't holding Detroit back one bit, and broadcasting from Woodward isn't going to result in some phoenix-like rising Detroit. Talk about your peripheral issues...

It's not limited to broadcasters/major media... it's simply being pointed out that these are just another tax paying employer locating itself outside of the actual city whose name it's trading on. WXYZ is the Kid Rock of stations. All about the D...until it comes to ACTUALLY living or doing business in it.

[Hermod]

It's not limited to broadcasters/major media... it's simply being pointed out that these are just another tax paying employer locating itself outside of the actual city whose name it's trading on. WXYZ is the Kid Rock of stations. All about the D...until it comes to ACTUALLY living or doing business in it.

Like the Detroit Pistons?

How about them there New York Giants out in East Rutherford, New Jersey?

[poobert]

I understand not every single business can be located in Detroit, and we are, in fact, Metro Detroit.

This is what I take issue with, though:
"Our goal is to unify, inspire change and help make Detroit a better place to live, work and raise families."

That's not their goal, first of all. It is also disingenuous. There is a difference between being a booster and a poseur, and this screams poseur. Detroit seems to have become a "brand" more than a city now, and everyone and their mother is capitalizing on it for their own gain.

What can we do? Demanding they move to Detroit isn't going to work. If they're going to pull this poseur crap, change the channel. Channel 4 has offices in the city. Read the Detroit newspapers. Read the MetroTimes. Support the tax-paying businesses that are IN the city - paying taxes, paying rent, making downtown vibrant - and ignore this schmaltzy garbage from Southfield.

I'd rather be set on fire than watch any of our valient local news channels, personally. Appears to me to be mostly grab-ass between the anchors, who seems to find each other endlessly amusing. I don't sit in business meetings like I'm around the water cooler - so why should I come home to be subjected to those cackling empty suits?

[gnome]

Not sure if this answers anyone's question about why channels 2, 7, 50,20 and 56 move to the City, but I do know that a super secure fiber-optic line was buried from the antenna farm on 696 and Coolidge west to Southfield Road south to 9 Mile and Channel 2, then west on the Lodge to 10 Mile and Channel 7, then to 11 Mile to connect Channels 20 and 50.

The super secure fiber optic line was buried in the early 1990's and was part of some government program to secure communications in the event of disaster.

I know this bit of Cliff Claven obscura because I was working in the area.

Now, I understand that today fiber optic cables are everywhere, but that was not the case in 1990.

[bailey]

Like the Detroit Pistons?

How about them there New York Giants out in East Rutherford, New Jersey?

I absolutely agree regarding the Pistons. There is no reason for the pistons to play 30 miles from the northern most limit of Detroit. [[NY Giants? IDK...different issue there? Not a lot of room for a Stadium in the 5 burroughs?) I mean, its not like there is a vacant land shortage [[or was when they decamped for Northern oakland county) in Detroit proper. We all know why they are there...its just another example of the collective stupidity of the region. Further Chrysler's "made in Detroit" bullshit campaign is just as stupid for the same reason. You don't get to both abandon a city and claim you speak for/identify with it.

[Detroitdave]

I lived in LA for most of my life and our stations were all over the place , none were downtown NBC is in burbank, ABC in LA but Silverlake, CBS is in LA but out on Fairfax and Beverly, there's only two studios that I can think of that are in the City Paramount , and Raleigh [[sp) studios in Hollywood, every other one is outside of the city, Culver, Burbank,Fox's address is Beverly Hills, even though it's in Century City, so even though it would be nice to have them in the City limits and downtown, it's really not that big of a deal.
And they sell the hell out of Hollywood but most of the tourist stuff takes place all over the entire region .
They know how to sell regionalism, we can learn a lot .

[313WX]

Los Angeles and Detroit are still exceptions [[though I would argue LA is even more centralized than Detroit)

Even in Atlanta, which is also very sprawly, its downtown still dominates as the region's center.

[Hermod]

Los Angeles and Detroit are still exceptions [[though I would argue LA is even more centralized than Detroit)

Even in Atlanta, which is also very sprawly, its downtown still dominates as the region's center.

1. The auto companies which were the big generator of Detroit growth and expansion did not have their headquarters downtown.

2. MCS [[closest thing to a transport hub) was located at a distance from downtown due to the need to have an acceptable grade coming up out of the tunnel. Fort Street station was also not a major part of downown.

3. For a variety of reasons, Detroit never developed massive heavy rail commuting on the lines radiating from downtown [[GTW to Port Huron and to Pontiac, NYC to Ann Arbor, C&O to Plymouth and Brighton, various lines to downriver). What commuting took place was on the regular passenger trains [[except on the Pontiac route where some designated commuter trains operated).

4. City government hostility killed the interurbans [[which did center in downtown).

5. Detroit was an early developer of the shopping mall [[Northland).

6. Doctors and dentists moved out of high rise office buildings for stnadalone medical buildings.

[313WX]

Well we know WHY everything's the way it is.

But it does make you wonder why it had to come to this as Detroit has lost so much invest as a result, and the region has failed to reach its full potential as well as a result.

[Bham1982]

But it does make you wonder why it had to come to this as Detroit has lost so much invest as a result, and the region has failed to reach its full potential as well as a result.

Yes, but these are two separate issues. The region is decentralized and sprawled, and the region is underperforming, of course.

The problem is when people try and link the two, when there's no evidence of a strong relationship between the two. Centralized cities don't necessarily have stronger economies than multinodal cities, or vice-versa.