Belle Isle lease proposal short on specifics on attraction improvement

**313WX** · September-18-12, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by detmsp

It's a little bit like showing up for a job interview and having the boss tell you "we want you to run a project. Why don't you take a few weeks to develop a plan, bring it back to me and we will consider hiring you."

A company's track record is easily verifiable through a search on Glassdoor or Indeed, at least in regards to how they treat their current employees.

A boss also tells you EXACTLY what to expect for a job before you even arrive at an interview. In this case, the state is saying "Here, sign this paper, show up tomorrow and you'll be instructed on what to do."

If they can come back in a few months with a more specific plan, I'm sure more people will be open to it. Belle Isle can't get much worse after all.

**jerrytimes** · September-18-12, 07:44 PM

So they don't have specifics on what will be done to the island? Is anything being done now other than Bing re opening the aquarium? Not really. I look at all the other state parks, and not that I've been to all of them, but from what I've seen they have been taken care of and quite well I might add.

Detroit needs to realize that everything isn't 'the man wants to take the city over'. The city needs help and a lot of it, and every time the state tries to do something that could improve it, Detroit shoots it down because they think that they can do it themselves.... guess what.... YOU CAN'T. It's not a bad thing to admit that you need help. Take the free help, someday people will just stop caring and that day is getting closer.

**adamjab19** · September-19-12, 01:46 PM

I don't think I have ever been to a State metropark that wasn't run properly or at least basically kept up. The council should really just give in because as jerrytimes typed what HAS the city truly done to improve the park for all guests? What is their fix up proposal? Sure they curbed some of the gangster activity you know by basically reinforcing the rules that were already in place.

Anyway a quick list of all things that are better without the City being involved or at least limited involvement:

Eastern Market
Detroit Zoo
Belle Isle Nature Zoo and Aquarium
Detroit Riverwalk
Detroit Grand Prix [[Penske flipping the bill for improvements)

The council should just stick to building permits and ruining the public safety department....

**EastsideAl** · September-19-12, 02:12 PM

I think people here are missing the point. When this deal was first proposed we were told that the state would be coming in with an admission fee that would return a dedicated funding stream to maintain AND IMPROVE the park. And that the state would have some specific proposed ideas [[at least) of the improvements they could make.

However, the final deal as presented neither gives the park any dedicated funding from admission revenues [[which will just go into a general state fund), nor makes any commitment to make improvements on the island [[and doesn't even state any proposals for possible improvements). All for nothing in return.

So, I don't blame the Council, or we citizens of the city, for being skeptical, as anyone in a negotiation should be, when the deal we're presented with is not the one we were expecting to get.

**bailey** · September-19-12, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I think people here are missing the point. When this deal was first proposed we were told that the state would be coming in with an admission fee that would return a dedicated funding stream to maintain AND IMPROVE the park. And that the state would have some specific proposed ideas [[at least) of the improvements they could make.

However, the final deal as presented neither gives the park any dedicated funding from admission revenues [[which will just go into a general state fund), nor makes any commitment to make improvements on the island [[and doesn't even state any proposals for possible improvements). All for nothing in return.

So, I don't blame the Council, or we citizens of the city, for being skeptical, as anyone in a negotiation should be, when the deal we're presented with is not the one we were expecting to get.

Does any state park in the system have a dedicated spend? I mean does Miliken have to be funded at 3x the dollar amount of Tawas state park?

Does it even matter as long as the park is improved?

Further, could it be that there is no way to accurately predict what Belle Isle can get until it's absorbed into the system? I mean, maybe we'd all like every closed amenity on Belle Isle to be reopened, however, the increase in passport sales does not cover it.

I don't want to see any park in Detroit or elsewhere be given "most favored park" status and primacy over funds simply as a matter of course. If that is Detroit's demand...well, then Detroit can fund it.

p.s. it's not for "nothing in return"... it's removing the cost of running the park from Detroit's balance sheet.

**adamjab19** · September-19-12, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I think people here are missing the point. When this deal was first proposed we were told that the state would be coming in with an admission fee that would return a dedicated funding stream to maintain AND IMPROVE the park. And that the state would have some specific proposed ideas [[at least) of the improvements they could make.

However, the final deal as presented neither gives the park any dedicated funding from admission revenues [[which will just go into a general state fund), nor makes any commitment to make improvements on the island [[and doesn't even state any proposals for possible improvements). All for nothing in return.

So, I don't blame the Council, or we citizens of the city, for being skeptical, as anyone in a negotiation should be, when the deal we're presented with is not the one we were expecting to get.

You know how channel 7 brought suburbanites to the city in a nice big limo bus? I think someone needs to take the city council and skeptical Detroiters on a little bus tour of Kensington, Stoney Creek, Metro Beach etc. to see what they might get in return for allowing the State to lease their park.

**313WX** · September-19-12, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by adamjab19

I don't think I have ever been to a State metropark that wasn't run properly or at least basically kept up. The council should really just give in because as jerrytimes typed what HAS the city truly done to improve the park for all guests? What is their fix up proposal? Sure they curbed some of the gangster activity you know by basically reinforcing the rules that were already in place.

Anyway a quick list of all things that are better without the City being involved or at least limited involvement:

Eastern Market
Detroit Zoo
Belle Isle Nature Zoo and Aquarium
Detroit Riverwalk
Detroit Grand Prix [[Penske flipping the bill for improvements)

The council should just stick to building permits and ruining the public safety department....

The biggest flaw with your examples is none of those places are managed by the state of Michigan.

**DetBill** · September-19-12, 07:56 PM

Someone in authority needs to confront city council and ask them specifically what they are going to do with Belle Isle in the future and with what funds are they going to do it with if they ignore help and choose to go it alone. . There is NO money, few employees and just more depreciation in store for Belle Isle unless someone steps up to the plate to take care of it [[ eg. the state). While council is grandstanding to look good about how " stupid" the state proposal is,,[[ very bad , unprofessional jargon to use when negotiating btw) there is nothing more stupid than a city council that has no idea, nor any plan on how they are going to maintain Belle Isle in the future. It is called planning and they have absolutely nothing. ,, Without any money ever, they just cant.. They ofcourse will not talk about that.. These council members need a lesson in reality. If nobody steps in, it will be most shocking to see whats going to happen in the next five years. They ofcourse, will not talk about that either. You would think anybody who cares about Detroiters would be intelligent enough to hold civil discussions to get the best deal for their citizens and get this park in a shape that everyone can enjoy for years, not start name calling with no planning ammunition of their own. . Lets ask Pugh and company what and how exactly they are going to keep Belle Isle running decently in the next five years and show us Detroiters the proof of it. Then lets compare proposals.. The city ofcourse has no plans except bandages like portable toilets as they cant fix the washrooms even. Its really a pathetic situation. Its even more amazing that it is so acceptible to some Detroiters

**adamjab19** · September-19-12, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

The biggest flaw with your examples is none of those places are managed by the state of Michigan.

True. But my point still stands: Detroit had all of those places about 30 years behind where they could be and now just 5-8 years later they are all major draws. May as well give the State a chance to add Belle Isle to their list of 100 + parks that are well maintained.

**EastsideAl** · September-19-12, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by adamjab19

You know how channel 7 brought suburbanites to the city in a nice big limo bus? I think someone needs to take the city council and skeptical Detroiters on a little bus tour of Kensington, Stoney Creek, Metro Beach etc. to see what they might get in return for allowing the State to lease their park.

I've never been to any of those other than Metro Beach, but aren't those all Huron-Clinton Metroparks, not state parks?

**313WX** · September-19-12, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I've never been to any of those other than Metro Beach, but aren't those all Huron-Clinton Metroparks, not state parks?

Yes. But HCMA has made it clear they don't want anything to do with Belle Isle.

**jerrytimes** · September-19-12, 10:59 PM

I think Bing could have 50 Million dollars given to the city to save children's lives, and city council would find a reason to black it. It's sickening.

**EastsideAl** · September-19-12, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Yes. But HCMA has made it clear they won't nothing to do with Belle Isle.

I remember. Hell, I remember way back when we voted to give it to them, and they wouldn't take it.

**rb336** · September-20-12, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

I think Bing could have 50 Million dollars given to the city to save children's lives, and city council would find a reason to black it. It's sickening.

Really????

**bailey** · September-20-12, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Anyway a quick list of all things that are better without the City being involved or at least limited involvement:

Eastern Market
Detroit Zoo
Belle Isle Nature Zoo and Aquarium
Detroit Riverwalk
Detroit Grand Prix [[Penske flipping the bill for improvements)

The council should just stick to building permits and ruining the public safety department....

The biggest flaw with your examples is none of those places are managed by the state of Michigan.

Wait..huh? the agreement as proposed creates an authority made up of members appointed by the mayor, the council, the gov. and Belle Isle Conservancy. Like the examples in adamjabs post, the authority would be responsible for finances and developing the master plan. And again, the city gets to move 10 million bucks off it's budget in return.

But yeah, just another state takeover....

**adamjab19** · September-20-12, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I've never been to any of those other than Metro Beach, but aren't those all Huron-Clinton Metroparks, not state parks?

I stand correct. But I'll still stand by Michigan operating Belle Isle much better.

**motownmark04** · September-20-12, 12:54 PM

Maybe the State of Michigan can get the Scott Fountain rolling again. Until then, I'm stuck watching the movie Scarecrow. It's been too damn long since I saw that fountain working.

**bailey** · September-25-12, 02:48 PM

Councilwoman JoAnn Watson called the proposed lease "an insult to the citizens of Detroit, an offense … to be talking about giving away something because you can't keep it clean." She said the city already has a blueprint for improving the island in a previous master plan.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz27VqNIpxw

Stick a fork in it..it's done. One council member boycotting the meeting, one stating that 20 million committed to renovations/repair is not good enough and of course, Jo anne can't resist the "disrespect" rant.... Well, at least, like light rail, everyone can all just stop talking about it as it will never. ever. happen.

**corktownyuppie** · September-25-12, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz27VqNIpxw

Stick a fork in it..it's done. One council member boycotting the meeting, one stating that 20 million committed to renovations/repair is not good enough and of course, Jo anne can't resist the "disrespect" rant.... Well, at least, like light rail, everyone can all just stop talking about it as it will never. ever. happen.

This isn't done by a longshot. I'd say 3 to 1 odds that it eventually goes through. Forget JoAnne and Kwame Kenyatta. They were never going to support it.

one stating that 20 million committed to renovations/repair is not good enough

This is the heart of the problem. The 20 million isn't committed in writing. Even the original headline in the Detroit News is telling, "DNR *could* commit 20 million in bonds"

Now I agree that the politics on this is nuts, and all this emotional rhetoric and inflammatory language is stupid and destructive. But the bottom line is that insiders are saying [[and the councilmen are implying) that if the commitments could just be firmed up and written into the contract [[rather than implied), then the votes are there.

BTW, I was in a meeting earlier today. Insiders saying that Feds to announce light rail in October. We'll see.

**Hermod** · September-26-12, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

BTW, I was in a meeting earlier today. Insiders saying that Feds to announce light rail in October. We'll see.

Light rail in Detroit:

**313hero** · September-26-12, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

So, Diane Bukowski, I agree that the city isn't receiving any money in return. But it's also unfair to say that it's not benefiting. By leasing the property to the state, that's like the neighbor taking 7 puppies off your hands. You no longer have to feed them, you no longer have to take them to the vet.

And like your next door neighbor, the state still allows you to play with the puppies...at a small, but reasonable cost of $10 per year. If you don't need to park on his driveway, then it's free.

Now if you think it's a bad deal? You think it's a bad deal. Fine. But at least the people writing about it should have to have show you the whole thing.

Yeah but the puppies are still in your yard, and they are selling them or renting them back to you eventhough they in your yard. Yeah they may feed them, but whent they are tired of them or neglect them they're still in your yard, and still legally yours. And lets remember this is the same State that has had control of DPS for the last 13 out of 15 years. Hows that working out. everything the State has taken over got worse. So who's to say Belle Isle wont???

I dont know Why OUR elected officials are so damn retarded and cant come up w/ ANYTHING to make the City Better Besides cutting workers pay, and that saddens me. We should have been charging to get on Belle Isle 20 years ago. SMH. The City "Airport" should have been converted into a drag strip. WTF City Leaders WTF.

**bailey** · September-26-12, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

This isn't done by a longshot. I'd say 3 to 1 odds that it eventually goes through. Forget JoAnne and Kwame Kenyatta. They were never going to support it.

This is the heart of the problem. The 20 million isn't committed in writing. Even the original headline in the Detroit News is telling, "DNR *could* commit 20 million in bonds"

Now I agree that the politics on this is nuts, and all this emotional rhetoric and inflammatory language is stupid and destructive. But the bottom line is that insiders are saying [[and the councilmen are implying) that if the commitments could just be firmed up and written into the contract [[rather than implied), then the votes are there.

BTW, I was in a meeting earlier today. Insiders saying that Feds to announce light rail in October. We'll see.

From the updated article:

Council members also want more detail about how security on the island would be handled.

Brown argued the lease needs to include provisions that will favor Detroit residents for jobs on the island, including police patrols. The former deputy police chief said the "complexity of policing Belle Isle" requires that park rangers understand the culture of the city.

"This is going to be the largest park in the [[state park) system if this is ever approved," he said. "It will have to be treated differently. … I shudder to think what will happen if you bring in park rangers who have only been in the city of Detroit to go to a hockey game."

If there was any doubt that the council is the most racist political body in the region... we now need to have set aside jobs because the "culture" of Detroit's black residents can not possibly be understood by a [[presumably) white state employee?

Frankly, I'd like to know exactly what about the "culture" of detroiters is so beyond understanding? Is Brown really saying that getting buck wild, flashing a gat when disrespected, dumping trash, and smoking blunts while blowing 10,000 watts of bass out of the trunk is standard behavior for a summer Saturday in the park and that should be honored as a treasured part of Detroit "culture"? Does he think the rangers are going to get shot if they just enforce the park rules? Or is he saying that anyone from outside detroit should be viewed as an occupying force to be repelled?

Detroit is beyond salvage if the race card can't be avoided in something as stupid and simple as managing a fucking park.

Bring on the EFM.

**GPCharles** · September-26-12, 09:09 AM

I can't understand how people in the newspapers comment that they believe the State will sell parts of the park for private development.

Question - how do you sell land that you are leasing? I've been in the real estate game a long time and this one still gets me. Ok, maybe a ground lease with a term comensurate with the State lease, but good luck financing a development on that basis, particularly in this market.

**Wesley Mouch** · September-26-12, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

...snip...
Detroit is beyond salvage if the race card can't be avoided in something as stupid and simple as managing a fucking park.

Bring on the EFM.

When you want to retain power, distract.

This isn't about the park. This is a power struggle between the local leaders who abuse Detroiters daily and an enlightened governor and state who realize its in all of our interest to see Detroit thrive. Too many Detroit leaders will be out of a job if Detroit even begins to thrive.

**Honky Tonk** · September-26-12, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

When you want to retain power, distract.

This isn't about the park. This is a power struggle between the local leaders who abuse Detroiters daily and an enlightened governor and state who realize its in all of our interest to see Detroit thrive. Too many Detroit leaders will be out of a job if Detroit even begins to thrive.

I was out there yesterday and it looks like things are happening, but I can't say for sure who initiated it. The parking lot in front of the Casino is being repaved, and there was a huge end loader and concrete in front of the South fishing pier. [[by the Coast Guard station). The island did not look bad @ all. It was clean and serene. The geese haven't been evicted either...