State and Mayor Close to a Deal for State Take-over of Belle Isle

**Det_ard** · September-11-12, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

Wow, so the fact that a large number of people are unhappy with the island is race based? Weird, pretty sure half of the clownil and mayor support a state assisted plan and they certainly aren't white. Definitely a cheap shot there.

Well, every so often Dnerd feels the needs to stroke his ego by proclaiming his non-racist superiority to the racist strawmen he creates. Its just his shtick, no real harm done.

**Richard** · September-11-12, 02:01 PM

So how much of a say does the city really have on a lease agreement,like for instance if the state said well these condos would really look nice over here and they would help off set the operating costs of the island,what recourse or input would the city have?

I do not think that they are going to let all of those little details get out beforehand.

**313WX** · September-11-12, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

No, not a cheap shot. As a Caucasian, I am quietly listening to white metro Detroiters in bars and barbershops and I know how racist white metro Detroiters can be. You bet your boots that such prejudices play into this, though usually in coded ways.

The "race card" is always quietly in play. The only people who get accused of playing it are those who acknowledge its existence.

Ever heard of the golden rule?

At the end of the day, it's those "white Metro Detroiters" who control much of the wealth in this region. Detroit desperately needs that wealthy and quite frankly Detroit isn't in a position where it can dictate the terms in which the holders of said wealth provide it. Otherwise, the holders of said wealth [[like they've done over the past 40 years) can tell Detroit to kiss their rear end.

Yeah, it's cutting your nose to spite your face, and yes it's not right, but that's the situation we're facing.

**corktownyuppie** · September-11-12, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

No, not a cheap shot. As a Caucasian, I am quietly listening to white metro Detroiters in bars and barbershops and I know how racist white metro Detroiters can be. You bet your boots that such prejudices play into this, though usually in coded ways.

The "race card" is always quietly in play. The only people who get accused of playing it are those who acknowledge its existence.

Their racism exists. But that doesn't mean it's the reason for the change of operator. The two can co-exist, but it doesn't follow that one caused the other.

**313WX** · September-11-12, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

So how much of a say does the city really have on a lease agreement,like for instance if the state said well these condos would really look nice over here and they would help off set the operating costs of the island,what recourse or input would the city have?

I do not think that they are going to let all of those little details get out beforehand.

Given the history with these supposedly "deals" between Detroit and the state of Michigan, another "bait-and-switch" is my fear as well.

That's why I'd rather have Belle Isle regionalized like the DIA.

**Detroitnerd** · September-11-12, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Ever heard of the golden rule?

At the end of the day, it's those "white Metro Detroiters" who control much of the wealth in this region. Detroit desperately needs that wealthy and quite frankly Detroit isn't in a position where it can dictate the terms in which the holders of said wealth provide it. Otherwise, the holders of said wealth [[like they've done over the past 40 years) can tell Detroit to kiss their rear end.

Yeah, it's cutting your nose to spite your face, and yes it's not right, but that's the situation we're facing.

I'm not even discussing the change of operator topic yet. I was talking about how I find the island pretty pleasing aesthetically, and was wondering how my perception could be so at odds with others. But, of course, there is one prism through which that negative view makes sense.

Anyway, I've lived in town long enough to know what it means when the cavalry is riding to the rescue to "save" something. I'm just going to roll my eyes and watch this farce play out.

**Richard** · September-11-12, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Given the history with these supposedly "deals" between Detroit and the state of Michigan, another "bait-and-switch" is my fear as well.

That's why I'd rather have Belle Isle regionalized like the DIA.

How are they going to make it a bond-able aspect?
You cannot raise bonds on how it is you would have to add assets to it to make it have something bond-able.

The water dept is bond able because it gives a return and as you guys already know if you have to raise more bonds you can raise the rates to cover it. So do you have a $100 admittance fee?

Other then the dirt what is there that creates enough revenue to sell the bonds for the rehabilitation?

What can be placed there that would create enough revenue to re-pay for multi millions in bonds.If it was already possible it probably would have already happened.

**rb336** · September-11-12, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Eber Brock Ward

e Isle is not a healthy, functioning city park. And while it's a gem, it's a gem that's got all sorts of gunk on it that's barely holding in it's setting, if you want to stretch out the metaphor.

I encourage those that maintain that it is in even 3 out of 10 shape to get out of the region and see how things should be. We, as Detroiters, should *DEMAND* more, and vote out any goons that get in the way of any type of progress/improvement with political grandstanding, no matter whether they're city, state, non-profit, whatever actors.

Perfect/enemy of the good and all that.

Belle Isle should be Detroit's crown jewel. It is not. While it is not as bad as it was in some ways, it is worse in others. When I first moved to Brooklyn, Prospect Park was a dump, in worse shape than Belle Isle is now. A little over a year later, it was easy to see why Olmsted felt it, and not Central Park, was his masterpiece. Detroit clearly doesn't have the resources to refurbish and maintain the park. It should be a destination for visitors to the city, and not just on race day. first on the list, full restoration of the Boat Club.

**mwilbert** · September-11-12, 03:44 PM

I like Belle Isle as it is, but it seems to me there is a lot of room for improvement, and that improvement is much more likely if the State takes operational control.

**Gistok** · September-11-12, 04:10 PM

Maybe before the forested east end of the island is drained of its' swamp... Adrienne Barbeau can do a remake of the movie SWAMP THING... before a "real" recreational use by the state is found for that bog....

**Mark Smiles** · September-11-12, 05:24 PM

Belle Isle was part of Michigan, before it was part of Detroit.

Go for a 100 year lease to protect the State's investment in the park.

The State is obligated to protect State investments.

**jtf1972** · September-11-12, 06:58 PM

I love Belle Isle. Live near it & don't get to make nearly as much use of it as I wish I could.

I am torn on the city handing over control to the state, but Belle Isle is actually a large reason that the rest of the city's parks are in the state that they are in. Belle Isle gets 40% of the city's parks budget. The entire rest of the city gets the remaining 60%. Having the visibility that it does Detroit cannot afford to let it go any more than it already does in order to put more into neighborhood parks.

I wouldn't mind at all a 30 year agreement. The 99 year as proposed was scary, considering it wasn't that much more than that amount of time since we actually bought Hog Island from Campau.

PS. My thoughts on that purchase is that it really was mostly a political deal to put money in Campau's hands for land that wasn't really that valuable. The city would have been much better off if they had used the money for land off Woodward & bring in Olmstead to design a Detroit Central Park.

Speaking of Olmstead, I believe he knew what a money pit an island park could be when he designed a simple park. We largely ignored his design, now have to deal with the upkeep of all the attractions. The inherant problem with an island park compared to a central park is the surrounding land values. A park can increase the value of land surrounding it. One of the great things about Central Park is that you can step off the street and in seconds be in a completely different world. People step out their door, cross the street and use it as their yard. An island park? Surrounded by water. You have to use a bridge or a boat to access it.

I hope that the agreement with the state helps to keep Belle Isle up and maybe improve it.

I also hope that instead of simply slashing the funds that would have gone to BI, the city invests in its other parks because they can have an even greater impact on the surrounding communities.

GUSHI · September-11-12, 07:58 PM

Why force the tri county area to pay for belle isle, just charge a entrance fee, if I decide to go to Stoney creek I have to pay if I wanna drive in. Belle isle should be the same.

Originally Posted by 313WX

Given the history with these supposedly "deals" between Detroit and the state of Michigan, another "bait-and-switch" is my fear as well.

That's why I'd rather have Belle Isle regionalized like the DIA.

**stasu1213** · September-11-12, 08:15 PM

Pugh and clowncil had the chance to charge a $3.00 fee to get on Belle Isle a couple of years back. The money could had went back into the upkeep of the island. He and clowcil had blown it. What he say now does not mean a damn thing for he is nothing but a head with an empty space between it's ears

**Hermod** · September-11-12, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

How are they going to make it a bond-able aspect?
You cannot raise bonds on how it is you would have to add assets to it to make it have something bond-able.

The water dept is bond able because it gives a return and as you guys already know if you have to raise more bonds you can raise the rates to cover it. So do you have a $100 admittance fee?

Other then the dirt what is there that creates enough revenue to sell the bonds for the rehabilitation?

What can be placed there that would create enough revenue to re-pay for multi millions in bonds.If it was already possible it probably would have already happened.

Not revenue bonds, just "full faith and credit" bonds. In this case, the State of Michigan has more credit than the City of Detroit.

**Hermod** · September-11-12, 08:54 PM

Belle Isle. Pony carts in the summer and pony sleighs in the winter

**313WX** · September-11-12, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

Why force the tri county area to pay for belle isle

The entire tri-county pays for HCMA parks, none of which are in Detroit.

**313WX** · September-11-12, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mark Smiles

Belle Isle was part of Michigan, before it was part of Detroit.

Detroit was discovered long before Michigan was even recognized as a territory.

**gnome** · September-11-12, 10:04 PM

Jeeze 313, it is great you're all down with 313 Detwa pride, but learn a little about your own freakin city.

Chnadler Park is a county park. Run by Wayne County and last time I checked it was inside the City limits.

Sault Ste. Marie was founded in 1668 and is known by most children to be the oldest European settlement in Michigan.

So cut with all the barbershopping, ok?

**313WX** · September-11-12, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Chandler Park is a county park. Run by Wayne County and last time I checked it was inside the City limits.

Sault Ste. Marie was founded in 1668 and is known by most children to be the oldest European settlement in Michigan.

I know Chandler Park is run by Wayne County. I'm referring to the Huron-Clinton Metro Parks Association, which operates parks across the tri-country area.

The poster I responded to asked why should the entire tri-county area pay for Belle Isle in Detroit. Well, why should Detroit pay for tri-county parks that aren't in its city limits?

As far as Sault Ste. Marie, that true it was settled in 1668. That has nothing to do with Belle Isle being a part of Michigan first then Detroit, which made no sense because Michigan didn't exist as a territory until the early 1800s while Detroit was founded in 1701.

**detroitbob** · September-11-12, 11:25 PM

It is a win situation for the Island and those who use the park, however, I fear the clowncil will screw it up. Remember the line about the one car funeral procession...never underestimate the council...I swear there is something in the water in that building...

**kcwhite** · September-12-12, 01:18 AM

I hope that the state is able to fund the park and turn it into the gem that it has so much potential to be for all residents to enjoy regardless of their nationality. Belle Isle is a beautiful island park that could be so much more than what it is. I'm all for more funding for it, and it looks like the state is the more likely candidate to accomplish that

**Hermod** · September-12-12, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

I know Chandler Park is run by Wayne County. I'm referring to the Huron-Clinton Metro Parks Association, which operates parks across the tri-country area.

The poster I responded to asked why should the entire tri-county area pay for Belle Isle in Detroit. Well, why should Detroit pay for tri-county parks that aren't in its city limits?

When all of those parks were built in the Tri-County area, they were built so that Detroiters could get out to the country and "rusticate". The farmers out there were paying for the parks for Detroiters. Consider Metropolitan Beach which was built so that Detroiters had a "safe water' place to swim.

**Searay215** · September-12-12, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Pugh and clowncil had the chance to charge a $3.00 fee to get on Belle Isle a couple of years back. The money could had went back into the upkeep of the island. He and clowcil had blown it. What he say now does not mean a damn thing for he is nothing but a head with an empty space between it's ears

The new deal is better in my opinion.....$10 annual fee per car per year, comes to $.03 cents per day. I've been paying that for a few years now when I get my plate for my car and I love it. You can go to any state park.....one price!!

**Detroitnerd** · September-12-12, 08:48 AM

Frankly, I liked it better when Lansing and the suburbs wanted to let Detroit rot. Behold the comical rush to "save" Detroit's jewels, courtesy of people who either loathe or misunderstand the city, its history, poor people, or why the public realm is important.

I'm sure all these ministrations will leave Detroit's institutions healthy ... as healthy as, say, Detroit Public Schools after a dozen years of outstate "help" ...