"GM needs to relocate to the Sunbelt"

[jt1]

3rd - It has been about 3 years since I have flown into or through DFW. Maybe it was usually that I didn't have much time and the check in area is less than appealing [[in my opinion). I just recall being very unimpressed with it but honestly can't recall how much time I spent there or if my opinion may have been tempered by running behind for flights or having to hurry out for meetings.

Travel enough for work and you may mix up airports or impose your schedule on your opinion of an airport. I may be biased towards the McNamara terminal because I always arrived with more than enough time and a return there meant I was home to see my family. Of course, the worst experience imaginable was flying out of the Smith early on a Monday. That security line was nothing short of torture.

[crawford]

Thanks, Trumpeteer, for suggesting Crawford check out DFW's website [[www.dfwairport.com); I did and it's quite interesting. I suggested there were 50 restaurants but I was referring my estimate as to the 2 AA terminals alone [[AA is in 2 other terminals as well.).

Very impressive. An airport with many restaurants. Never heard of that one before. Somehow multiple Cinnabons don't do much to improve my opinion of the ancient-1970's terminals, filthy restrooms, and the mile-long connections.

Take a look at Houston or Detroit, and then consider that craptacular D-FW.

I had to laugh at C's characterization of the SKYLINK as just another "people mover."

Now you're correct on this. The airport tram is no typical tram. It's actually much worse than other airport people movers. It was inoperable in summer of 2008, contributing to my missed connection to Guadalajara. Of course, there were no signs or customer service indicating the tram was broken.

And when it does operate, you have to wait forever for the damn train to arrive, so I just hoof it to my connection.

It cost far more than the entire cost of DTWs McNamara TERMINAL and is the state of the art airport transportation system in the world.

LOL, sure. It's a tinker-toy train that plods along. It sucks. And if it cost over 1.5 billion dollars [[the cost of McNamara) for a small airport monorail, then someone just overpaid by fifteen-fold in 2009 dollars.

And "state of the art"? Better than the 300 mph maglev in Shanghai's airport? I guess that's why everyone in just walks to their connection, right?

The average ride is 5 minutes and the maximum time between the 2 farthest point in the 5 terminals is 9 minutes. [[I was slightly off in my estimates; those numbers are from the DFW website.)

That's horrible frequency [[assuming it's even correct). Five minutes between trains in prime hours? Most airport monorails arrive every two minutes or so during busy periods.

And a nine-minute ride? Easily twice the ride in Detroit. That's because D-FW is horribly designed in a linear fashion, which was all the rage when it was designed in the 1960's.

Unfortunately, AA is a financial catastrophe, and it's bascially the only airline that serves D-FW, so there won't be significant changes for a while. If you need to transfer through that part of the country, go with Continental in Houston.

[crawford]

How many terminals does DFW have. I have flown there many times and thought it was junk [[not comparing it to anything else).

Perhaps I was flying in/out of their version of the Smith terminal.

Excepting the International Terminal [[which actually is pretty nice) the entire D-FW airport is like the Smith Terminal.

But they don't get much international traffic in D-FW, so you're not likely to be using it. Most international traffic from Texas goes through Houston.

[Ocean2026]

Crawford so when I actually linking you to the data - --- you changed the subject lol

Yeah Detroit is growing- -- you probably think those burned out and abandoned houses are new construction.

[crawford]

Crawford so when I actually linking you to the data - --- you changed the subject lol

No, I responded to [[and destroyed) each of your points, and you have no response.

Yeah Detroit is growing- -- you probably think those burned out and abandoned houses are new construction.

Just hilarious. No, I use this funny thing called the U.S. Census, and it shows that metro Detroit has grown since 2000.

And those burned out and abandoned houses in Detroit are no different than the burned out and abandoned houses in Dallas. The difference is that Dallas annexed about 200 square miles of affluent northern suburbs, so the city proper is [[barely) growing.

[Trumpeteer]

[quote=crawford;40950]Very impressive. An airport with many restaurants. Never heard of that one before. Somehow multiple Cinnabons don't do much to improve my opinion of the ancient-1970's terminals, filthy restrooms, and the mile-long connections.

Take a look at the DFW site and you'll see more than Mickey D's and Cinnebons. But hey why confuse you with the facts. You're obviously superior to anyone here on DYes, just ask you...

[3WC]

I told you Crawford hasn't been through DFW, or least not in the past 5 years. He's referring to the TrAAne, the ancient outdoors people mover that preceeded the SKYLINK. The SKYLINK is a multi-track system with automated cars running in both directions. The maximum wait between trains is 2 minutes, and the time it takes to travel between the 2 farthest [[of the 180+) gates in all 5 terminals is 9 minutes. The guy can read but has a major comprehension problem. DFW has at least twice the number of international flights as Houston. I don't think he's been through McNamara either. I'm not going to respond to anything else he writes because he clearly has no idea what he's talking about. You can't debate or carry on a discussion with a [[fill in the blank.)

[Ocean2026]

I challenge Crawford [[ 3wc - I agree) I gave Crawford several links to show Detroit is losing population but he still makes his bold dumb statements that he only relies on the official census data.

Here is the challenge Crawford and we will play on your turf using OFFICIAL US Census Data.

We each deposit $5000 with Discus Detroit - they can use the interest - when the OFFICIAL census data comes out Discuss Detroit takes $1000 off the top as a donation, and sends the other $9000 to You if the City of Detroit hasn't shown a decline census to census and to me if it has. Here's another option you say Detroit is at 915,000, Ill take UNDER and you can have the same or OVER- same amount of money.

We will donate to Discuss Detroit - a good cause and I'll make some extra cash.

I would also consent to $1000 each if you are low on cash.

PUT UP OR .......come up with some whiny, chickens--t excuse!

[Ocean2026]

Oh no the US CENSUS Dept speaks July 1, 2009 Detroit News!
Detroit leads U.S. cities in population plummet

Census: Mich. led states in losses in 2008

Mike Wilkinson / The Detroit News

Detroit experienced the largest population drop of any city in the country in 2008, according to population estimates released Wednesday.
The numbers are not surprising: Early estimates of state and county populations showed that Michigan suffered the worst losses of any state and that Wayne County lost the most people.







CRAWFORD NO EXCUSES, NO WHINING, NO CHANGING THE SUBJECT


Put up your money!

[jt1]

Ocean - You keep discussing Detroit as if the city is in a vacuum and the Metro Detroit area doesn't count. Stupid argument.

You also hve chosen to ignore the point about the labor force and the skills needed for the R&D/HQ functions. Regardless of populations the skill for those positions is located here which is why the foreign companies are investing in R&D in SE Michigan.

So when you post a link about Detroit population consider that the majority of the regional population lives outside the city and those are many of the people employed in the R&D/HQ functions. You are referring to only the city proper which is irrelevant in the argument.

[Ocean2026]

Detroit Free Press March 2009
The Detroit Metropolitan Statistical Area [[MSA) lost the largest number of residents in the nation between 2007 and 2008, according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates. The Flint MSA in Michigan ranked third in terms of greatest number of residents lost. The Detroit MSA cited by the census includes Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Lapeer, St. Clair and Livingston counties, while the Flint MSA includes Genesee county.



Happy now?

[jt1]

Yes and no.

Nobody has denied that the population in the Metro area may/has gone down a little. The fact of the matter is that the metro Detroit region is still about 4.5MM people.

I see you continue to ignore the question about the skillsets of the regions to support the R&D/HQ functions and the fact that foreign companies are investing in R&D functions here.

Until you address the skillsets of the workforces you are ignoring a significant part of the discussion.

Happy now?

[crawford]

I told you Crawford hasn't been through DFW, or least not in the past 5 years. He's referring to the TrAAne, the ancient outdoors people mover that preceeded the SKYLINK. The SKYLINK is a multi-track system with automated cars running in both directions. The maximum wait between trains is 2 minutes, and the time it takes to travel between the 2 farthest [[of the 180+) gates in all 5 terminals is 9 minutes. The guy can read but has a major comprehension problem. DFW has at least twice the number of international flights as Houston. I don't think he's been through McNamara either. I'm not going to respond to anything else he writes because he clearly has no idea what he's talking about. You can't debate or carry on a discussion with a [[fill in the blank.)

This entire post is basically a lie.

The Skylink is a dinky tram that supposedly connects D-FW's far-flung terminals. I have had the "pleasure" of riding it many times, but I swore off it in Summer 2008, when it broke down, and I [[along with two clients) lost a transfer to Guadalajara.

When it's running, it may come every 10 minutes or so, maybe every 5 during prime AM hours. The one good thing is that it's never crowded, since businesspeople know that it's faster to just hoof it to your gate. The system is a sorry joke, and desperately needs to be replaced. And while they're at it, they should demo the AA terminals, and put in something halfway modern and functional.

I have no doubt that part of the reason that AA is such as basket-case is because its largest hub is a nightmare, and is avoided by most.

Oh, and D-FW is NOT an international hub. They only have two airlines: AA and Southwest. Southwest has no international flights. AA has a few to Latin America, but Continental is BY FAR the largest U.S. airline to Latin America, and they fly out of Houston [[and the NY area).

Oh, and D-FW isn't even the international hub for AA. Most AA international flights are out of NY JFK or Miami. Dallas is the domestic hub.

[crawford]

I challenge Crawford [[ 3wc - I agree) I gave Crawford several links to show Detroit is losing population but he still makes his bold dumb statements that he only relies on the official census data.

I already posted that metro Detroit is growing. Reread the thread.

Are you claiming the thousands of researchers at the Census are wrong or lying, and only you have the real numbers? Your crack team of moonshine researchers in the Texas piney forest are crunching the "real" numbers! LOL...

If you are saying that the inner city of Detroit is declining, then what's your point?

The inner cities of Dallas, Houston, Phoenix and all the Sunbelt cities have all declined too. The difference is that they annexed their suburbs. If Detroit annexed Oakland County tomorrow, it would show considerable growth too.

What are you trying to tell us? You hadn't yet heard of postwar suburban sprawl? You weren't aware that most Americans live in the burbs? Earth to Ocean, it's 2009!

[crawford]

Oh no the US CENSUS Dept speaks July 1, 2009

Where's the cash, Ocean?? You lose again!! [[though I will admit I'm impressed you actually read newspapers).

[crawford]

Detroit Free Press March 2009
The Detroit Metropolitan Statistical Area [[MSA) lost the largest number of residents in the nation between 2007 and 2008, according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau estimates.

Happy now?

Completely happy. I now realize you don't even have rudimentary command of the English language.

Here's a test:

I said Detroit's population has grown since 2000 [[which I sourced through the Census numbers).

You challenged that by posting that the Census recorded a slight decline for Detroit for 2007-2008.

Now please tell me how your posting in any way contradicts my assertion?

You do realize that "since 2000" and "the period 2007-08" are different time periods, right?

[Ocean2026]

Crawford you're trying to crawl out of it - LET'S Make it SIMPLE 2000 census to 2010 Census - will that satisfy you. You always look for ways out - OK I will go with the 2000 census as that is your claim. You claim to like the census ok the next one will be done next year 2010. You will then have it the way you want... and I will have your money.

Next excuse?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Man, you guys are funny. Sound like a couple of 5 year olds. Detroit or Dallas? Who cares? They both have they're pros and cons. Neither are World Class cities, so whats the point? Dallas actually is worse off since KK moved there.

[3WC]

I said I wouldn't do it but here I am.

Crawford is the only person in the world who refers to DFW as D-FW.

Southwest does not fly into or out of DFW, and never has. Ever hear of Love Field you nitwit?

AA's largest domestic and international hub is ORD. [[Look up the city code, Crawford.) It's DFW hub has more international flights than Houston, however.

I know he won't do it but his continued nonsense regarding the SKYLINK is easily rebutted by just checking out the DFW website......or, going through there once. [[Actually, he is just jerking everyone's chains and shame on us - me in particular - for falling for the idea that anyone could be that ignorant.)

[Ocean2026]

3wc I see you caught Crawford lying about being in the terminal- I'm just trying to make some money for me and Discuss Detroit but he slithers like the criminals I used to prosecute.

He wants to use Census figures to bet - Fine Ill do that. He says population gained - I post sites showing the opposite.

Oh well...

[crawford]

Crawford is the only person in the world who refers to DFW as D-FW.

Eh, it's officially called the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, not the DallasFortWorth metroplex, and strangely there are thousands of google hits for Dallas-Fort Worth and D-FW. Shocked that you would be wrong again, but argue with Google, the Census and the English language, not me.

Southwest does not fly into or out of DFW, and never has. Ever hear of Love Field you nitwit?

Brilliant, except who are you arguing with? I said that D-FW only has two airlines: AA and Southwest. This is correct, and you just admitted it! Do you know the difference betwen a metropolitan area and an airport?

AA's largest domestic and international hub is ORD. [[Look up the city code, Crawford.)

Nope, wrong again. ORD is United's domestic and intl hub. AA's domestic hub is at DFW. Their international hubs are JFK and Miami.

It's DFW hub has more international flights than Houston, however.

Riiight. Somehow Continental is the #1 airline to Latin America, while AA is the #3 airline to Latin America, yet Dallas has more intl flights than Houston? And even stranger, Dallas is only the #3 intl hub for AA, while Houston is #1 intl hub for Continental. Oh, and flights to other parts of the world don't come in large numbers out of either airport.

So I guess you're claiming that AA is secretly transporting thousands of passengers in mystery flights to unknown international destinations? Quick, someone call the FAA!

I know he won't do it but his continued nonsense regarding the SKYLINK is easily rebutted by just checking out the DFW website......or, going through there once. [[Actually, he is just jerking everyone's chains and shame on us - me in particular - for falling for the idea that anyone could be that ignorant.)

Oh, we all know about the monorail, and it's quite special and unique! Nobody would argue with that!

[crawford]

3wc I see you caught Crawford lying about being in the terminal- I'm just trying to make some money for me and Discuss Detroit but he slithers like the criminals I used to prosecute.

Oh well...

LOL, you passed the Bar? For real? In the U.S.? Is this Monica Conyers posting?

And you think that a 12-month Census count is a proxy for a 120-month time period?

[rb336]

As for the weather-- you may be correct that Texas heat costs as much as Detroits cold in energy [[cept as you pointed out its cheaper here) , however how many work days are "Officially" missed because of hot weather as compared to snow -sleet etc. I say officially because I know sometimes I will step outside and then think better of it and go back to my air conditioned bedroom. Of course I'm not very productive anyway- unless you count the number of posts LOL

last 5 years -- 0 days lost to snow for my company -- "officially"

[Patrick]

Is it coincidental that Texas topped the nation in prosperity during the W Bush years? OR, did W have at least some influence with this? It has been said that Texas has lost 70% or more of its clout in DC politics.

[Ocean2026]

Crawford - avoiding the census issue again - just as I predicted. I offered you to put your money [[ if you have any) where your mouth was - but instead you want to ramble about Monica Conyers and anything else to change the subject..

Crawford you are low class- you can admit you were lying here or with the other guy who caught you - but no you want to change the subject.

Once again $5000 Detroit Census 2000 v 2010 [[ you wanted the official census numbers) Deposit money with Discuss Detroit - $1000 goes to them as a donation and the rest to me if Detroit shows a decline or to you if it has grown. Go ahead and wimp out again.

Patrick - Texas gained in prosperity just as much when Clinton was President. Texas has vast oil and agriculture resources, and of course being in the sunbelt also helps. Texas Law prohibits a personal income tax and real estate taxes have always been a fraction of what Detroit's are/ GW Bush had nothing to do with it- nor did Clinton.