Downtown Development Rumor [corner of Broadway and Grand River]

**Jason** · November-01-12, 10:08 PM

There's a strong demand for units right now, and I think future demand will depend on how attractive of an urban environment downtown and midtown are.

A parking garage on the Library Street side would ensure that the area around the library would be a parking garage no-man's land. To the south of the library you'd have the Compuware loading bays, to the SE you'd have the back end of the Compuware garage, to the east you'd have this new garage, and to the west, whenever anything gets built there, you'll more than likely have loading bays there too [[as the design of the Hudsons block building will favor Woodward at the possible expense of Farmer). Broadway would be dominated by large parking garages.

If a well designed mixed use building is built there instead, you'd have several contiguous blocks of quality urban environment [[with the exception of a small number of small surface lots), as well as more residents to add to the vibrancy of the area. And the more appealing the area is, the more demand there will be to live there.

It's true that people need to park somewhere, but an area can only handle so many parking garages before it looses the ability to be as vibrant as we'd like, and I think that site is the tipping point.

**Jason** · November-01-12, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by gthomas

I agree, Gnome...but one thing I don't understand is why aren't there more rehab and/or new residential projects happening? Occupancy rates are high and nearly closed, lots of vacant buildings and vacant land around downtown and Midtown...even Brush Park. Man where are the investors, aren't we past the "take a chance or no" concept? We need residential development full throttle going on in and around Downtown, Riverfront, Midtown, New Center, Eastern Market, Corktown and Brush Park neighborhoods. ASAP...the demand is just too high, I just don't get it...

imo part of it is that developments take a long time to organize. I think in 2013 we're going to be getting more announcements about new developments.

And I think the other part is that even though there's a lot of demand, rents and the real estate market might not be high enough to justify expensive renovations and new construction. So when developers do the math they might know that they can fill the units but they might not know if they can make money off it or not. But I don't know enough about the subject to know how true that is.

**gthomas** · November-01-12, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

imo part of it is that developments take a long time to organize. I think in 2013 we're going to be getting more announcements about new developments.

And I think the other part is that even though there's a lot of demand, rents and the real estate market might not be high enough to justify expensive renovations and new construction. So when developers do the math they might know that they can fill the units but they might not know if they can make money off it or not. But I don't know enough about the subject to know how true that is.

I think that's the main problematic issue with developers, it's the "I don't know if I can make a profit" mentality. That's all good and fine, nothings wrong with that. My issue is "Waiting" on that answer will take forever, while we sit back and suffer for years just to wait on a developer to develop a property. Then to find out the design is horrible and cheap and ends up not developing it due to low responses of new residents, aesthetic is EVERYTHING to me and it needs to be address in all matters to create a urban environment we all want...got to start somewhere.

**gthomas** · November-01-12, 11:31 PM

Love to see something similiar downtown, along with rehabbing the rest of vacant skyscrapers as residential [[http://www.collegeparkcondos.com/)<<<<<<Hint: Woodward, Statler, Monroe site. If this developer announce this plan for our downtown I guarantee it will be sold out before construction starts! Tell me if I'm wrong..?

**Hypestyles** · November-01-12, 11:43 PM

I want new development to happen asap.. but we'll see how it goes..

**southen** · November-01-12, 11:44 PM

i am all for the older buildings downtown being reused. i get upset any time a building is needlessly torn down. with that said i think downtown needs a mix of residential like the broderick as well as new construction. i have many friends that have moved to chicago who have inhabited high rises. there is a demand for that. if downtown keeps adding jobs and moving forward there will be a need for modern housing and i thought that those two lots would have been perfect for some development that fits that.

**Gistok** · November-02-12, 01:19 AM

I have to agree with Gnome... and also say that new construction on highrises is much more expensive than 3 story townhouses in Midtown. For example... the Roxbury... the parking structure next to the Book Cadilllac... it was originally built with the possibility of adding 6-8 stories of residential on top. That part of the project fell thru [[around the time of the mortgage meltdown), even though the parking structure was built with future residential on top.

My guess is that the numbers don't add up for justifying new residential for downtown... perhaps the rehabs of existing structures with all the historic and other tax credits make older buildings a better option than new build.

Don't know the answers here... but I do know that as long as there is a depressed housing market in metro-Detroit... that even downtown and midtown are affected... but just not as badly as other areas.

**detroitbob** · November-02-12, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I... perhaps the rehabs of existing structures with all the historic and other tax credits make older buildings a better option than new build.

Remember that Capital Park is next on the list to rehab existing structures...and if prior postings and reporting prove correct historic and other tax credit will be a part of it. If memory serves me some 400 units are planned for the area.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-02-12, 07:13 AM

Only six percent of the gross floor area is devoted to parking. Without naming major retailers, how is this project any different than a half-dozen other garages that have been built downtown often with empty retail space on the first floor?

Looks to me that the primary reason for this building is parking.

If this development was for bringing retail downtown, then why are no retailers named? Why is retail only a small portion of the entire development?

**401don** · November-02-12, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Only six percent of the gross floor area is devoted to parking. Without naming major retailers, how is this project any different than a half-dozen other garages that have been built downtown often with empty retail space on the first floor?

Looks to me that the primary reason for this building is parking.

If this development was for bringing retail downtown, then why are no retailers named? Why is retail only a small portion of the entire development?

Exactly. I can't believe the positive spin this is getting in the News & Freep. He's building a parking garage with MANDATORY ground floor retail spaces. I hope Gilbert spends his efforts on Woodward before he worries about these empty spots.

**stinkytofu** · November-02-12, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Pcm

The answer to this is probably obvious, but why don't we build new construction with parking underground?

The answer is likely, "too expensive".

But seriously, isn't this a possibility? I'm not talking a huge underground garage, but just one level, enough to park the cars of the tenants above.

That's definitely a possibility for developments.

Nonetheless, this is a different type of development. They are looking to increase the amount of parking for all their Quicken-related folks downtown. Building a residential tower - with one floor of parking for those tenants - would not fix their problem at all.

I do think this is a necessary evil. I see the Quicken shuttles downtown and it's very obvious they need more parking. It's annoying, but had to happen.

**gnome** · November-02-12, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Only six percent of the gross floor area is devoted to parking. Without naming major retailers, how is this project any different than a half-dozen other garages that have been built downtown often with empty retail space on the first floor?

Looks to me that the primary reason for this building is parking.

If this development was for bringing retail downtown, then why are no retailers named? Why is retail only a small portion of the entire development?

Not sure where the 6% figure came from, I rescanned the article but didn't find that figure. Did I miss it? And, help me out with the empty retail space in parking garages.

I have seen it stated here that any parking garage is required, but I don't recall any retail in the Book Cadillac garage. Is there something there? I know there is that CVS on Woodward next to the 1001. There is the Asain Village thing with it all tied up in GM bankrupcty, there are a a few garages on Rivard near the water that doesn't have any retail space, there is that ancient and creepy garage on Randolph and Monroe that usually has its retail spaces filled. No retail in the DAC garage. Nothing in the MGM, Greektown, or Motor City garages. Nothing in the Comerica, hockeytown, Ford Field spaces. Nothing in the old MGM/new Public safety garage.

help me out here. It has been stated here that new garages in detroit are required to have retail. But I am not recalling where all this garage mix use is going on.

**bailey** · November-02-12, 09:10 AM

Per a friend of mine who is a Gilbertonian, parking is a MAJOR problem for the Gilbert enterprises and those he's trying to drag downtown.. Employees are shotgunned all over downtown. The fact that people have to walk in from a lot a few blocks away isn't the issue... its the fact that these people work insane hours and the absolutely staggering amount of muggings and assaults that are going on. If anyone was under the impression that the CBD was some sort of "Green zone"... it's a lie. Gilbert has a command center that tracks this stuff and it's just sad.

Current priority is build as much secure, close in parking that they can. This isn't the last announcement of this kind in the pipeline. Lots of pretty decks with empty first floor retail coming.

**DetroitPlanner** · November-02-12, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

Not sure where the 6% figure came from, I rescanned the article but didn't find that figure. Did I miss it? And, help me out with the empty retail space in parking garages.

Do the math:
http://www.quickenloans.com/press-ro...wntown-detroit

Retail on the first floor allows garages to be less obtrusive in most cases. However in an environment where most of this space is empty the effects are pretty much the same. You said you can't recall whether the Westin has retail in its garage. It does, but its empty so it does nothing for the street life. The Hockeytown Garage was built over 25 years ago and under a different thought process. Now retail is part of the site plan review.

Soon there will be no retail in the creepy garage. the last tenant is having a going out of business sale and City Slicker has moved to the Garage across Randolph. The retail in the garage across Monroe is pretty much taken.

**Gistok** · November-02-12, 10:23 AM

Gnome... the city requirement for retail on the first floor was passed rather recently... but I don't understand how the new Greektown Casino garage escaped that clause. And as we have seen with the Detroit Opera House garage... the clause is rather limited... as only the Broadway side of the garage has commercial space, while the Centre St. side does not.

**Gorath** · November-02-12, 10:58 AM

Here is what the zoning ordnance says about parking garages.

[[b) Parking structures.

[[1) The objective of this subsection is to enliven parking structures with active uses and to architecturally integrate them to their district.

[[2) To achieve the objectives of this subsection, the following standards shall apply:

[[A) Commercial space or other space oriented to pedestrian traffic shall be provided on the ground floor of a parking structure for at least sixty percent [[60%) of the length of the ground floor facing a major or secondary thoroughfare. Where the parking structure abuts more than one [[1) street, the applicant shall determine whether the ground floor commercial space or other space oriented to pedestrian traffic, faces one [[1) or more than one [[1) street;

[[B) The parking structure façade shall be designed so that no ramp structure or sloping deck is expressed on building façades facing public streets; and

[[C) Parking structures are subject to the design standards for materials, as
provided in Sec. 61-14-290 of this Code, and color and finish, as provided in Sec. 61-14-291 of this Code, and signage, as provided in Sec. 61-14-300 of
this Code.

I don't know when this language was placed into the zoning ordnance. But currently 60% of the facade on one street at ground level must be commercial space. It doesn't look like any other commercial space is required, for example on Broadway if space is provided on Library. However they still can provide commercial space on Broadway if the developer chooses to. I could be wrong on all the above, but that is how I interpret the code.

**401don** · November-02-12, 11:40 AM

Never thought I'd say this but too bad the Compuware Garage wasn't built taller.

What's happening with the garage next to the National theater? I thought I read in an earlier thread that the retailers were being kicked out to prepare for demolition.

**downtownguy** · November-02-12, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

What's happening with the garage next to the National theater? I thought I read in an earlier thread that the retailers were being kicked out to prepare for demolition.

Link here:
Parking Garage @ Randolph & Monroe. What's Going On?

**Detroitkid** · November-02-12, 01:25 PM

Story in Crain's

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...t-took-so-long

**Danny** · November-02-12, 01:30 PM

No rumor! Quicken Loans and Bedrock Holdings founder and CEO Dan Gilbert is building parking structure and retail business on the corner of E. Grand River and Broadway. It least he will fill up the area with buildings and get rid and surface street parking lots. Gilbertown is growing fast.

**royce** · November-03-12, 12:40 PM

OK. They are showing us the parking/retail structure that will go up at Gratiot and Library. Am I to assume that the parking/retail structure that will go up at E. Grand River and Broadway will be identical? Did I miss something?

**mikeg19** · November-03-12, 02:41 PM

I like to see more renderings. Was there only the one released, or are there more somewhere?

**Genesyxx** · November-03-12, 03:56 PM

Off the top of my head, I can think of two downtown parking garages with retail space and no retailers in them. Don't think this will be any different.