Mudgie's in Corktown aims for liquor license, faces opposition

[Richard]

[QUOTE=detroitgirl;338550]And finally, on another point, some people are acting as if Corktown will fall to a swift demise if Mudgie's closes shop. I love their food so I would hate to see them go, but Corktown is on the rise now. Another business will come along, and if they want to serve alcohol they will know to keep it on the Avenue.[/QUOTE

Well you know what they say ,three strikes you are out [[CVS The other bar and now Mudgie's) it does not really seem as though any business would suit the area.Which gives the area a reputation of being not business friendly and if one cannot see the ramifications of going that route in the city as a whole then it is all for naught anyways.Who needs the headache.

You are correct that losing one business does not matter to the neighborhood but it is kinda redundant to try and build an area and yet discourage the business aspect.They pay taxes and employ and have to buy product locally so they are contributing to the general economy.That is what the city needs now and not a screw you attitude my way or the highway.That solves nothing.

Maybe a topless bar that does not serve alcohol would be okay. Do not see how it could be stopped.But also there would seem to be a huge conflict allowing a liquor store but nobody else.

But one would think that a business that would wish to succeed would not endorse fighting as who would want to patronize a place like that.

Corktown received neighborhood improvement grants last year ,how were those funds spent ,just kinda wondering.

CTY what is your input?

[downtownguy]

The article I linked to stated that:
The city received 6 letters of opposition and a petition signed by 42 near-by residents and property owners

The article you refer to was written in February and relates to the former Porter Street Station applying for a cabaret license. As the article also notes, that site was a rowdy after-hours spot that was raided and shut down. It's unfair to compare Mudgie's to that place.

Furthermore, what if it is located across the street from a playground? Would seeing someone tipsy stumble out of Mudgie's corrupt some little kiddy's morals forever? They see a lot worse on TV. Drinking at lunch is rare these days. Most of the drinking will probably occur at dinner. Those delicate munchkins should be long gone from the park by then.

[scottn55]

Photo of a recent protest by the residents outside of Mudgie's: Attachment 15485

The Corktown Temperance Society? Has the Woodbridge Pub had a deleterious effect on that neighborhood?

[Alley]

Wasn't there a bar, directly next door to the right, when the building was Eph McNally's? 2005ish? I can't remember it's name--I remember it was house-like with a porch and patio--but it didn't last long. I liked it!

[detroitsgwenivere]

As the article also notes, that site was a rowdy after-hours spot that was raided and shut down.

For some clarification, the guys who were applying for the cabaret license were not the guys operating the after hours. The place [[which was owned by then Wayne Co. Sheriff Warren Evans) got raided in 2005, and then sat empty for years. These guys leased the space through an investment co. out of Pontiac. They came to Corktown Residents Council meetings before they even set up shop in an attempt to get community buy-in [[in which a group of neighbors decided against before the guys even started talking), and gave out drink tickets to neighbors to get them in the doors to experience first hand what kind of business they were attempting to operate. I checked it out, and it was pretty harmless. As a matter of fact, i'll just come out and say that some of the complaints I heard against the place were straight up lies and bullshit.

But, a legitimate problem was that the place's sound system was a bit much for the structure, which was old and would have needed another 6 figures plus to fix up properly and insulate. They weren't prepared to invest that kind of capital without owning the building. The property has a few houses and an apartment building within earshot, and the events they held ran pretty late. Can't blame folks for wanting to sleep at night.

The guys left the neighborhood, bitter and hurt over the experience. The building has sat empty for the last 2 years.


I just hope something like this isn't what happens to Mudgie's....

[Greg Mudge]

Hello,

Thank all of you for your concern. Whether supporting this idea or not. I feel we all share the same idea of keeping the community's best interest in mind and heart.

As for the church and school argument...Somehow it was fine for a casino to be located in stones throw from the church and school, but not my tiny establishment? This is not to say I am for or against the casinos. I am Just making the point. The first casino was closer to the church and about the same distance to the school as Mudgie's.

On a almost daily basis for four and a half years I and our staff have been asked these questions in some form.

Are or when are you guys going to serve beer and wine?

Can we bring in our own beer and wine?

When the opportunity presented itself, I jumped at it.

As stated in the Mlive article referenced on this thread, These are my plans for this license:

I will stock 4 Michigan craft brews and a meed
- These will be housed next to the Faygo.
I will also stock a white and red wine
- The white will be next to Wild Bill's Soda
- The red will be on a shelf next to the phone
I will have occasional cocktail specials such as:
- Bloody Marys with brunch.
- Margaritas, you know when.
- Irish coffee that one week.
- Spiced cider in the Fall
- Kahlua and coffee around the holidays

Due to our lack of space and my lack of desire, you will never come to Mudgie's and order any "cocktail". Even if I wanted to, we barely have room to set a pen down let alone stock a bar. I will not keep bar hours. I do not want nor will I ever be a bar on that corner.

I am looking to answer our guests' wants and heighten their experience, as well as increasing business potential.

In hind sight I regret not getting the community more involved from the beginning. I honestly never thought there would be any oppositions. I made a mistake. I did however speak with the principle of the school and Father Kohler at the Most Holy Trinity Church and asked for their support.

There is mention about the park from the opposition and others on this forum.
I have always maintained the park to some extent. A few months back I officially adopted the park from the city. Please let me address these concerns.

I fully maintain the park by:

Trimming trees

Emptying the trash and supplying the bags

Replacing nets on the court

Painting the fixtures [[ with the help of neiborhood children )

I pay a landscaping company to mow the grass 3 times a month

Every day before I enter my job I survey the park and wake anyone sleeping there [[ I never attempt to kick them out. I only ask that they wake). I also pick up any trash. If there is glass to sweep or something requires gloves. I return and this is when I re wake the sleeping. I have actually developed a working relationship with these people.

At the end of my day I do the same routine

A child from the school caught wind of what we are doing and proposed a childrens movie night in the park. I will be working with her and her mother. We hope to show our first in september.

Please do not take this as tooting my own horn I just want express that I would never allow or stand for any foul play there.

There was a bar behind the Deli, ten or so years ago. It was called Limericks for a minute and something else for a second. Limericks poor behavior is the reason for the opposition. Do not judge or punish me for someone elses actions.

I hope this rant answers some of your questions. Whether you wish to support this or not. I would love and welcome all your thoughts. Please feel free to contact me with your concerns Either by stopping by or calling the restaurant. We are pretty busy between 11-and 2pm I am more than happy to talk with before or after those times. You can also email me Greg.mudge@gmail.com

Thanks for taking a moment to read this,

Greg Mudge

P.S. I am confident that myself and the objector will be able to come to a reasonable agreement.

[downtownguy]

Greg, thanks for clarifying the issue for us. I don't understand why reasonable people would object to your plans. And, your dedication to the park is exemplary. Seems like the neighborhood should be giving you an award rather than getting in your way.

In the MLive story, you declined to single out the opposition, but can you at least tell us what feedback you got from the school principal and Father Kohler? I don't know the principal, but Father Kohler always struck me as a very reasonable person.

[noise]

How many deli's serve liquor? I've never been in one.
I doubt if they are going to the expenses of buying a license and paying extra liability insurance just to serve the odd beer here and there.

I've certainly been in a few. It's gets CRAZY when a guy wants a Bud Light with his pastrami at lunch.

[Richard]

Greg, thanks for clarifying the issue for us. I don't understand why reasonable people would object to your plans. And, your dedication to the park is exemplary. Seems like the neighborhood should be giving you an award rather than getting in your way.

I agree it is nice to see somebody investing in the community verses in just a business,the city needs more of that.

But on the other hand I can see to a point where the community may have a concern and that would be in the mixed drink specials.

Even though in this case it would seem as it would not be an issue it boils down to how the community wishes to define themselves and while they are doing this they are setting precedent, if they for instance say we think it is okay to sell beer and wine with your meal or a certain percentage and allow the hard liquor aspect in this case there is really nothing to stop for instance, somebody like me that does not live in the neighborhood from buying a building and opening up a full liquor bar as my argument could be that it was allowed so the precedent was set.

This sounds more like a neighborhood trying to find its way verses a personal thing it would be nice if a compromise could be met as in this case it would seem as though the neighborhood could lose an asset that is hard to replace.

[Greg Mudge]

I would be pleased to talk face to face and explain all of this in more detail. Although I appreciate this forum. I would rather not disclose every detail here. I hope you understand. As stated above, please feel free to stop by and chat. I am going to try to post pone the hearing and organize a community gathering. I will keep you posted, no pun intended.

Greg Mudge

[Lowell]

Greg, thanks for addressing the forum with your point of view and activities. I think you deserve and hope you get your permission.

[gnome]

The priest at Trinity Church is opposed to beer and wine being served at Mudgies? Really? Don't they serve up free wine at every Mass? Don't they brag that the stained glass window behind the alter was installed a little cattywompus by a couple of tipsy carpenters?


Serving bottles of beer or glasses of wine with sammies is a far cry from what was happening at the old Porter Street Station.

[jt1]

I think it sounds like a great idea. I had asked about the park and school because I think these may be viable concerns to some in the neighborhood.

I wanted to bring them up because the typical response is [[to this or anything else) that people in Detroit should just take whatever they can get with no regard for the fact that real people actually live there.

I also think that the argument that the Casino is in the same boat is different. It isn't about people drinking or any morality associated with it, it is about people drinking then getting in their cars and driving by a park without a fence that surrounds it. The casino traffic does not end up near the park.

If anything, I would think that a fundrasier to get a nice fence around the park would be a great way to ensure that the kids are safe. If anyone doesn’t know the area, check out the corner of Porter and Brooklyn on google maps. The park has direct access to the street which si dangerous but even more dangerous when there are people drinking and driving on that corner.
So, before people bite my head off: I support Mudgie’s getting a liquor license but I also empathize with people who may genuinely concerned about the safety of the kids in the park [[even if they are just Detroiters – yep, Detroiters are real people as well and a car hurts Detroit kids as much as kids in the suburbs).

PS – Adopting the park is a great thing, Mr. Mudgie. I applaud you for that and wish you continued success with or without a liquor license.

[downtownguy]

...in this case there is really nothing to stop for instance, somebody like me that does not live in the neighborhood from buying a building and opening up a full liquor bar as my argument could be that it was allowed so the precedent was set.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that's why each license goes through this process -- so you can distinguish the merits of a small place like Mudgie's getting a license versus your hypothetical full liquor bar.

[downtownguy]

So that's the objection now? That the park doesn't have a fence rendering it unsafe? Actually it does have a fence running most of the Porter Street Side. The rest of Porter Street and Brooklyn have some trees, sturdy looking bushes and a light pole providing some cover. In addition, it's 50 feet from the street to the play area. The basketball court which does come to the sidewalk is completely fenced in. During the hours that kids are likely to be in the park, there are usually parked cars on the street providing one more barrier.

[Islandman]

Wishing you the best Greg.

Greg runs one of the most efficient and chill places to get a great sandwitch in Detroit. The service and staff are always top notch, as well as their use of local produce and products.

The demographic that frequents Mudgie's, while diverse, is not the type of crowd that is going get all rambunctious, by a long stretch.

[jt1]

So that's the objection now? That the park doesn't have a fence rendering it unsafe? Actually it does have a fence running most of the Porter Street Side. The rest of Porter Street and Brooklyn have some trees, sturdy looking bushes and a light pole providing some cover. In addition, it's 50 feet from the street to the play area. The basketball court which does come to the sidewalk is completely fenced in. During the hours that kids are likely to be in the park, there are usually parked cars on the street providing one more barrier.

I'm not saying it is the objection but a consideration of what may be a concern to some.

A couple things. It is not 50 feet from the intersection to the playground. All I am asking is that people actually consider what may be a concern to residents in the area. Hell, maybe this isn't their concern but people tend to be entirely too dismissive of things that may impact others based upon what they want.

Safety of loved ones [[even if it is a difference in perceived safety) is an important consideration.) Someone above mentioned that they should just move to Royal Oak is the residents fight this. I'm curious would RO advocate having a place serve liquor directly adjacent to a playground? Maybe they would but I'm sure there may be some residents that may be concerned. The difference is that their concerns would be seen as valid but if it happens in Detroit then people assume something more nebulous.

Now after saying all of that, I would be fine with it and support it but I'm not going to dismiss what may valid concerns of people in the community and just blame it on them being obstacles.

I also think the park is more open [[at least at the corner of the park) then you are stating. The courts are fenced in but then again kids playing on slides are more prone to run into the street to chase after something then kids playing hoops.

Just my opinion

[jt1]

For those that don't know the corner, attached is a picture of the playlot from outside Mudgie's front door [[Probably looks nice due to Greg's great work).

Now, I don't expect people to get raving drunk and in fights, etc. but the age of kids that play at the playground, mixed with a few beers at lunch may end up in a tragedy. Sorry, when it comes to safety of kids any accident can be prevented is good in my book. Like I said, a fence that closes off the open areas would be a great thing. The reality is the combination of little once not being aware of safety/traffic couped with someone having a few drinks at lunch could result in a tragedy.

Again, I support the liquor license but I also think there should be some consideration of the little ones playing at the playlot.

[rutlev]

When an establishment makes a request for a liquor license, notice goes out to residents within a 500 ft area. Corktown is much larger and so to say that Corktown needs to get over itself is kind of vague.

[Gannon]

So make it one-way-valet-only. More you drink, further away they put your car. And you've got to walk to it. Away from the park, of course.

[detroitgirl]

I wanted to bring them up because the typical response is [[to this or anything else) that people in Detroit should just take whatever they can get with no regard for the fact that real people actually live there.

Jt1, I literally teared up a little at this. Very, very well said. I try to remind people that Detroiters deserve nice things too.

[gnome]

jt1, do I understand that it is your position that there is a danger of children being run over by drunken sandwich eaters? Or are you saying that well-fed drunken louts will overrun the park and assault the children?

I am not clear on the connection you are trying to make.

On a side point, shouldn't Sheila Murphy Cockerel pony up some flower money to make the Murphy Playlot pretty? After all it is named after her parents.

[detroitgirl]

It is great to hear your perspective on this Mr.Mudge. I think you have good intentions. The crux of it will be maintaining a controlled environment. If you can find a way to do that and let the residents know how you plan to do that, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about the whole thing.

Presumably, Mudgie's profits will go up if you receive your license. Maybe some of that extra money can be redirected back into the community such as the fence idea that was proposed.

[detroitbob]

[QUOTE=gnome;338655]The priest at Trinity Church is opposed to beer and wine being served at Mudgies? Really? Don't they serve up free wine at every Mass? Don't they brag that the stained glass window behind the alter was installed a little cattywompus by a couple of tipsy carpenters?


I'll have to inquire of the good Father next time I see him holding pontifical court at the bar at Sinbad's...

[Greg Mudge]

About flowers. Sheila Cockerel is aware of my actions in the park. She has been willing to help. I have not yet needed her assistance. As for flowers. Most of the beds contain many bulbs, problem is I do not know where they are right now. I was going to till the beds but decided to wait until next season. As flowers come up we will photograph and map where everything is and plant around them. I have had someone out and they have proposed a great plan in the beds. Next year the corner should be in full bloom all season.