Michigan Supreme Court Orders Casino Proposal Put On Ballot

**Wesley Mouch** · August-26-12, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by 9mile&seneca

Why not just let existing bars an restaurants have gaming? Then the area maintaines integrity,and small business gets to actually make money.

Because limiting the licenses prevents competition. That's one of the main functions of government. To pick winners and losers. Small businesses make small contributions. That doesn't help government. So they don't help small businesses. [[Oddly, I support unlimited campaign contributions with total disclosure.)

**oladub** · August-26-12, 11:34 AM

Detroit would do better to encourage small businesses by loosening up regulations than by hoping to skim vice. It's the people of Detroit who will be skinned when they already don't have enough for food, medicine, and education. My suggestion would be to instead allow people to start and run businesses out of their own homes without as much government interference. I used to live next door to a guy with alcohol problems who ran a car repair business, illegally, out of his garage. He was a good mechanic. Although he couldn't quite hold a regular job, he was able to suppport his family. Other businesses might grow into bakeries, plumbing businesses, hair dresser places, tattoo parlors, or whatever. It makes so much more sense to give people liberty than to fund government by encouraging destructive behavior. Some of the small businesses encouraged by liberty will also eventually show up on property tax rolls and hire other people. The term "economic health" can be taken in different ways.

Shollin · August-26-12, 11:47 AM

So because Detroiters can't hold down regular jobs, we should not build casinos that provide thousands of good paying jobs and provide millions of tax revenue to a city that desperately needs revenue to fund city services? Instead we should promote restaurants and bakeries that might hire a couple minimum wage dishwashers.

**Zacha341** · August-26-12, 12:45 PM

Bingo [[pardon the pun)! Casino's bring nothing. We fell for THAT CON the first time and got 'em in here. There was a bit of hay-day. That is clearly over! Another round of those things cannot do what the three we have FAILED TO DO.

Gambling is down from what it was when the blood suckers, oops, I mean casinos first opened. Some will argue the payouts are down too. I set that argument aside as it is very subjective one can argue.

Patronage in general is not. I used to gamble and recall the crowds. They're down. Staffing is down, the pay-out cages have only a third of the staff they once had, in difference to the auto-pay machines that cash out pay stubs.

The whole concept of providing millions in tax revenue is bust. The are not as many concerts and headliners for the entertainment. Not that is was ever that good with our three Casinos. But greatly reduced are the star class or even moderate level entertainment acts associate with the first few years.

Even Ceasars Windsor is down, withstanding their better roster of headliners. Ask most gamblers or a former gambler who used to frequent our casinos and they will tell you the numbers are down.

Tumble-weeds at certain time of the day for MGM. They've reduced the menu of their Buffet to reflect this. The card table times are shorter. No, the casinos over promised and have under-delivered.

Originally Posted by Shollin

So because Detroiters can't hold down regular jobs, we should not build casinos that provide thousands of good paying jobs and provide millions of tax revenue to a city that desperately needs revenue to fund city services? Instead we should promote restaurants and bakeries that might hire a couple minimum wage dishwashers.

Shollin · August-26-12, 12:50 PM

If the casinos have under delivered, why are cities in the Midwest feverishly building casinos to block their residents from coming to Detroit to gamble? Where would Detroit be without the 15% of their general fund that the casinos provide?

**Zacha341** · August-26-12, 01:01 PM

A sucker is an easy pull they consider. Gambling is always a part of desperate populations. Regarding the 15% if could be argue that it helped, in the front door but how much was lost out the back. After all the house always wins, eventually, and not just on the floor but at the very negotiations of their existence. Or they leave.

Originally Posted by Shollin

If the casinos have under delivered, why are cities in the Midwest feverishly building casinos to block their residents from coming to Detroit to gamble? Where would Detroit be without the 15% of their general fund that the casinos provide?

**DetroitPlanner** · August-26-12, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitHabitater

I think they create superblocks with their parking structures and make downtown less pedestriany

Thats not a think, thats a definite regarding superblocks. If you want pedestrian activity, they ahould be grouped as they are in Atlantic City or Vegas. However the end result of that is the rest of the town becomes more hostile to pedestrian movements.

**softailrider** · August-26-12, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Bingo [[pardon the pun)! Casino's bring nothing. We fell for THAT CON the first time and got 'em in here. There was a bit of hay-day. That is clearly over! Another round of those things cannot do what the three we have FAILED TO DO.

Gambling is down from what it was when the blood suckers, oops, I mean casinos first opened. Some will argue the payouts are down too. I set that argument aside as it is very subjective one can argue.

Patronage in general is not. I used to gamble and recall the crowds. They're down. Staffing is down, the pay-out cages have only a third of the staff they once had, in difference to the auto-pay machines that cash out pay stubs.

The whole concept of providing millions in tax revenue is bust. The are not as many concerts and headliners for the entertainment. Not that is was ever that good with our three Casinos. But greatly reduced are the star class or even moderate level entertainment acts associate with the first few years.

Even Ceasars Windsor is down, withstanding their better roster of headliners. Ask most gamblers or a former gambler who used to frequent our casinos and they will tell you the numbers are down.

Tumble-weeds at certain time of the day for MGM. They've reduced the menu of their Buffet to reflect this. The card table times are shorter. No, the casinos over promised and have under-delivered.

Seems to me like business at all the casinos is very steady, when I've been a visitor at any of them, which is always at night, they're super busy.

**laphoque** · August-26-12, 10:48 PM

I wouldn't mind if we became more like Vegas, or even beyond. More casinos; legalize, tax, and regulate drugs and brothels; 24/7 drinking. If we have spaces that are watched and regulated for these already common activities, we should be able to reduce and control any associated harm.

9mile&seneca · August-27-12, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by laphoque

I wouldn't mind if we became more like Vegas, or even beyond. More casinos; legalize, tax, and regulate drugs and brothels; 24/7 drinking. If we have spaces that are watched and regulated for these already common activities, we should be able to reduce and control any associated harm.

No! Just all join the UAW and complain.

**Detroitej72** · August-27-12, 11:45 AM

People here are missing the big picture. According to the ballot proposal, Detroit would not be the only metro city to have casinos. One would be built in Pontiac, one in Clinton Township, Romulus, and Clam Lake.

Dose the state get that much tourism to warrant more casinos? More than likely, all they would do is take business away from existing ones and possibly put some out of business. Then we'd be stuck with big, empty building, which we certainly have our full of now.

**313WX** · August-27-12, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

People here are missing the big picture. According to the ballot proposal, Detroit would not be the only metro city to have casinos. One would be built in Pontiac, one in Clinton Township, Romulus, and Clam Lake.

Dose the state get that much tourism to warrant more casinos? More than likely, all they would do is take business away from existing ones and possibly put some out of business. Then we'd be stuck with big, empty building, which we certainly have our full of now.

I would think our fair state legislators would see that.

But the logic instead is "Hey, if Detroit has them, which can't my city have them!?"

BTW, where the heck is Clam Lake? I've never heard of that place.

**Detroitej72** · August-28-12, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

BTW, where the heck is Clam Lake? I've never heard of that place.

Here:Clam Lake Township, Michigan

**Zacha341** · August-28-12, 08:44 AM

Is is where they harvest clams for Michigan consumers --

--!

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Here:Clam Lake Township, Michigan

**mikefmich** · August-28-12, 09:54 AM

I've always found it ironic....a country that had banned gambling other than racetracks & Las Vegas, but now with their fingers in the pot, i.e. lottories, casinos, etc. then they are suddenly ok and proliferate like rabbitts all over the country.

Any society that depends on gambling for government income, is a government/society that is teetering on the brink of failure.

I still despise Archer's turnaround on his casino stance.

**Zacha341** · August-28-12, 11:17 AM

I DO hear things have come up since a few years ago when they were threatening bankrupsy! Greektown probably does the best of the two here in Detroit. None will do well waiting for me to contribute further.

Originally Posted by softailrider

Seems to me like business at all the casinos is very steady, when I've been a visitor at any of them, which is always at night, they're super busy.