The DIA Art Millage

[noise]

For that matter, I don't live in Macomb county. I have worked in a competing museum, however.

[bailey]

I can count on one hand how many times I've been to Macomb County, but I wonder how many of my tax dollars went to subsidize Hall Road or Groesbeck Hwy or Gratiot or M-53 or I-696 or I-94 or Metro Beach or Wolcott Mill Metro Park or Stony Creek Metro Park or Selfridge AFB or the GM Tech Center or TACOM or ...

We all live in this region and we all should help pay the public costs of this region. I'll stop bitching about paying for Hall Road, if you stop bitching about paying for the DIA...

Ok, but how much of what you buy, sell, or consumer every single day used Van Dyke, 696, 94...etc. To get to your door?

If the DIA didn't exist tomorrow, your life wouldn't change. If 696/94...etc I would think it's a different story.

Yeah, the whole point of the millage is to focus on building up the endowment over the next ten years so they can essentially operate off the interest from the endowment. Right now the endowment sits at about $100 million. Hopefully it will be closer to $500 million by the time this millage expires. By then, the museum won't need the help of Macomb County residents to pay for annual operations.

When had a tax ever been allowed to sunset as planned? This will never go away because when it comes time to expire, there will be another "emergency" and some more "temporary" needs that need to be fulfilled or....heavens to betsy... Graham Beal might not get his half a million dollar a year salary.

[Detroitnerd]

Yes, you were poking fun at "special needs" people in order to insult those who are opposed to the DIA millage.

I'm not opposed to the DIA millage because of the contents of the DIA, but rather because it should be funded through admission fees and donations.

Secondary objections would be the misrepresentation of the facts surrounding the DIA's financial status, the amounts that the executives of this "non-profit" are making, and also that the current admission price is very low and could be raised to increase revenues.

But if we totally change around the mission of the DIA to be more inclusive of Macomb County residents, don't you think it would be much more likely to make a profit? I don't understand your resistance to remaking the DIA in such a way where Macombers look upon the DIA with awe and wonder, as someplace that must be visited every week just to shout a "huzzah!" and celebrate its existence. So I imagine remaking it in the image of things Macombers love. Strip off all that marble and make it look like a big box! Put corporate logos on the side of it! Remove that Rodin thing from out front and put a gleaming stock car on that pedestal! And get rid of the fountains so we can have large enough parking lots on Woodward so nobody from Macomb County will be confused about where the entrance is. If there's room left over, maybe erect a string of bouncy castles and ball pools for the kids while the adults go in and look at exhibits fine-tuned just for them. You know, like maybe a NASCAR simulator, or "The Art of Butch Hartman," or "An Evening With Matt Taormina." I think these are all good ideas, and might help make the DIA profitable with a solid appeal to the culture and intelligence of Macomb County.

[bailey]

But if we totally change around the mission of the DIA to be more inclusive of Macomb County residents, don't you think it would be much more likely to make a profit? I don't understand your resistance to remaking the DIA in such a way where Macombers look upon the DIA with awe and wonder, as someplace that must be visited every week just to shout a "huzzah!" and celebrate its existence. So I imagine remaking it in the image of things Macombers love. Strip off all that marble and make it look like a big box! Put corporate logos on the side of it! Remove that Rodin thing from out front and put a gleaming stock car on that pedestal! And get rid of the fountains so we can have large enough parking lots on Woodward so nobody from Macomb County will be confused about where the entrance is. If there's room left over, maybe erect a string of bouncy castles and ball pools for the kids while the adults go in and look at exhibits fine-tuned just for them. You know, like maybe a NASCAR simulator, or "The Art of Butch Hartman," or "An Evening With Matt Taormina." I think these are all good ideas, and might help make the DIA profitable with a solid appeal to the culture and intelligence of Macomb County.

Since we're being absurd.... If it was a simple as micro catering to the population, the Charles Wright would be a cash cow instead of being bankrupt.

[Scottathew]

But if we totally change around the mission of the DIA to be more inclusive of Macomb County residents, don't you think it would be much more likely to make a profit? I don't understand your resistance to remaking the DIA in such a way where Macombers look upon the DIA with awe and wonder, as someplace that must be visited every week just to shout a "huzzah!" and celebrate its existence. So I imagine remaking it in the image of things Macombers love. Strip off all that marble and make it look like a big box! Put corporate logos on the side of it! Remove that Rodin thing from out front and put a gleaming stock car on that pedestal! And get rid of the fountains so we can have large enough parking lots on Woodward so nobody from Macomb County will be confused about where the entrance is. If there's room left over, maybe erect a string of bouncy castles and ball pools for the kids while the adults go in and look at exhibits fine-tuned just for them. You know, like maybe a NASCAR simulator, or "The Art of Butch Hartman," or "An Evening With Matt Taormina." I think these are all good ideas, and might help make the DIA profitable with a solid appeal to the culture and intelligence of Macomb County.

Insulting those that are expressing their opinion doesn't make your opinion any more valid.

[Detroitnerd]

Insulting those that are expressing their opinion doesn't make your opinion any more valid.

I'm not insulting anybody! I'm brainstorming here!

Don't be shy, Macomb County! Trumpet your accomplishments! Celebrate your city on a hill!

[kenp]

51% of Macomb county was for the tax so give them credit. In fact thank the suburbs for bailing out something in the city.
Now everyone look at Kathleens last post and get over to the DIA.

[bailey]

I'm not insulting anybody! I'm brainstorming here!

Don't be shy, Macomb County! Trumpet your accomplishments! Celebrate your city on a hill!

Well, it's largest city is not bankrupt.... and the county itself isn't run by a thief? I imagine that would be a start. Macomb grew by 6% over the last decade while Detroit shrank by 25% and Wayne county shrank by 3%? Might be another selling point?

Low crime? intact schools? decent economy?

I'll give you it's a bit sprawly and not exactly a place I'd want to live... .but apparently I'm in the minority with that opinion.

[Detroitnerd]

I always tease Macomb County, so there's nothing new there. Just having a bit of fun. Glad the DIA gained the support of all three counties.

May you brittle people enjoy resuming your tedious arguments.

[Scottathew]

51% of Macomb county was for the tax so give them credit. In fact thank the suburbs for bailing out something in the city.

Here are detailed results for Macomb County:

http://74.208.45.94/m10/389-bd-print.html


Most of the "No" cities were located further away from the DIA, which highlights my point that it's not fair for the people that live out there to pay for something that's so far away from them.

The notable exception, was Warren Warren, the Macomb County city closest to the DIA voted 51% "no". Warren also had a large 4.9 mill police and fire initiative that passed by a two-to-one margin.

[Scottathew]

I always tease Macomb County, so there's nothing new there. Just having a bit of fun. Glad the DIA gained the support of all three counties.

May you brittle people enjoy resuming your tedious arguments.

We're not brittle, we're just trying to have an intelligent discussion, and your comments aren't compatible with an intelligent discussion, because you're attacking people, instead of debating ideas.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy your sense of humor. I just wish you would use your humor to compliment a point you're trying to make, rather than insulting someone because you don't agree with them.

I enjoy your humor much more when we're in agreement.


Also, I was really hoping that my labeling of Hall Road as "Sprawl Road" would catch on!

[Detroitnerd]

Well, it's largest city is not bankrupt.... and the county itself isn't run by a thief? I imagine that would be a start. Macomb grew by 6% over the last decade while Detroit shrank by 25% and Wayne county shrank by 3%? Might be another selling point?

Well, remember, now, I wasn't trying to have a reasonable conversation so much as have a little bit of fun. Trust me, I see all the problems of Wayne County with crystal clarity. Heck, I wish Detroit could declare bankruptcy, but the state won't let it. And, yes, Ficano needs to go, I agree.

As for the miraculous growth of Macomb County, I'm guessing that's going to change. For now, its statistics are healthy, sure. In the coming decades, I predict that Macomb County will be the most troubled county in the metro Detroit region, coming to terms with high costs after having been built out during a time of low costs. It's not going to be pretty. I think you're already seeing some of those emerging economic insecurities coming to the fore in this discussion...

[Detroitnerd]

We're not brittle, we're just trying to have an intelligent discussion, and your comments aren't compatible with an intelligent discussion, because you're attacking people, instead of debating ideas.

Oh, BS. I'm having a bit of fun tweaking Macomb County's collective nose is all. You're the one drawing yourself up in great umbrage at these "insults" and "attacks," thereby doing half the "derailing" anyway.

Anyway, I know Macomb County fairly well, and it's not all objectionable. I spent a few years on Hall Road once; I think it was on a Tuesday ...

[Scottathew]

As for the miraculous growth of Macomb County, I'm guessing that's going to change. For now, its statistics are healthy, sure. In the coming decades, I predict that Macomb County will be the most troubled county in the metro Detroit region, coming to terms with high costs after having been built out during a time of low costs. It's not going to be pretty. I think you're already seeing some of those emerging economic insecurities coming to the fore in this discussion...

The south-end of Warren has seen a lot of Wayne County residents move in now that housing is so affordable. My neighborhood has seen explosion in the black and Bengali populations. This will of course push the fearful, xenophobic, and racist further out.

Downtown and midtown are coming back, and now that the DIA is a walk-in attraction for tri-county residents that's only going to add the reasons to move to midtown.

I'm just hoping we can do something to stabilize the Detroit neighborhoods, then start to grow out from the stabilized areas.

[noise]

Here are detailed results for Macomb County:

http://74.208.45.94/m10/389-bd-print.html


Most of the "No" cities were located further away from the DIA, which highlights my point that it's not fair for the people that live out there to pay for something that's so far away from them.

The notable exception, was Warren Warren, the Macomb County city closest to the DIA voted 51% "no". Warren also had a large 4.9 mill police and fire initiative that passed by a two-to-one margin.

It's about 40 miles from some of those areas to the DIA.

[bailey]

It's about 40 miles from some of those areas to the DIA.

What I don't quite understand is; since Michigan used to kick in the lion's share of the funding for the DIA and no one really cared about it....why wasn't this a statewide initiative? Seems like at least Washtinaw [[Ann Arbor being a suburb of Detroit) should have been included.

[Scottathew]

What I don't quite understand is; since Michigan used to kick in the lions share of the funding for the DIA and no one really cared about it....why wasn't this a statewide initiative?

There's no way it would have passed that way. It's within an hour's drive for most tri-county residents, but outside of the tri-county area it is more than that.

The DIA spent over a million dollars just trying to secure a yes vote within the tri-county area.

[Scottathew]

It's about 40 miles from some of those areas to the DIA.

And it's 50-60 miles from some of the northwest areas of Oakland County. I'm unable to find voting results for those communities though, but I would love to see if the support was as strong there, or if perhaps some of those areas voted "no".

[Detroitnerd]

The south-end of Warren has seen a lot of Wayne County residents move in now that housing is so affordable. My neighborhood has seen explosion in the black and Bengali populations. This will of course push the fearful, xenophobic, and racist further out.

Downtown and midtown are coming back, and now that the DIA is a walk-in attraction for tri-county residents that's only going to add the reasons to move to midtown.

I'm just hoping we can do something to stabilize the Detroit neighborhoods, then start to grow out from the stabilized areas.

That all sounds sensible. But I'm noticing that the power-that-be, whether it's Dave Bing, Detroit Works, or Mark Hackel, are not directing things intelligently. I mean, how is my Detroit neighborhood stabilized? By the people who live there, including me. And, frankly, it's individual people who are doing most of the heavy lifting involved in changing things and creating tomorrow, and the political leaders are either resisting it or are getting dragged along, kicking and screaming all the way.

[Goose]

If the DIA were generating millions of dollars in annual profits for Mike Ilitch, I wouldn't have voted to subsidize it either. There's a difference between supporting a nonprofit cultural institution and an enormously profitable private business.

glad you notice the difference.... IF THERE WAS A DEMAND FOR THE ART, IT WOULD BE PROFITABLE OR AT MINIMAL SELF SUSTAINING.... voting tax dollars away from people that could care less??? why is that yours or any other persons decision??? what is the peoples who voted no origin of debt to you or anyone else that thinks art is some cultural experience???

[Detroitnerd]

"To write is to think, and to write well is to think well." —David McCullough

[noise]

And it's 50-60 miles from some of the northwest areas of Oakland County. I'm unable to find voting results for those communities though, but I would love to see if the support was as strong there, or if perhaps some of those areas voted "no".

Very true. I forgot about places like Holly.

[JBMcB]

The notable exception, was Warren Warren, the Macomb County city closest to the DIA voted 51% "no". Warren also had a large 4.9 mill police and fire initiative that passed by a two-to-one margin.

That's funny, my vote was exactly the opposite

[Shollin]

To pay for the increase in taxes now to support the DIA, I will have to skip lunch tomorrow.

[DJ Tom T]

I was on the fence about this because as someone noted previously, the campaign literature and more importantly the ballot initiative were SO POORLY worded. Ended up voting yes because art doesn't come without cost and needs to be encouraged, especially given the creativity of metro Detroit residents vs the rest of the world.

I just hope whoever wrote this isn't in charge of writing any future ballot initiatives for police/fire etc.