Suburban millage for Detroit Institute of Arts

[Shollin]

Is there any evidence that having a world class art museum stabilizes home values and makes the region more attractive to others?

Because I don't see any strong relationship between quality of the local art museum and desirability of real estate or strength of job market.

Generally speaking, good art museums in the U.S. tend to be in the older parts of the country, since that's where the people and money were back when collections were amassed.

There are very few good art museums in places like California, Arizona, and Florida, and there are many in places like New York, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

I would say there's no strong relationship whatsoever between quality of local art museum and property values or job market.

California does have good local art museums. I suggest you visit Balboa Park in San Diego.

[Danny]

Good ideal, that way our arts and humanities institutions will stay open for the sake of the people. I will vote YES, YES, YES.

[Bham1982]

4. Yes, many businesses do look at amenities in an area before locating there - they look for art museums because you can't attract talented people to a backwater community.

But is an art museum one of these amenities? Again, there is no world class cultural institution anywhere in Silicon Valley. There isn't even a middling cultural institution anywhere in San Jose/Sunnyvale/Menlo Park etc. Yet they seem to have no problem attracting talented people.

And places like Cleveland and Pittsburgh are packed with world-class cultural amenities, including art museums, but have a very tough time attracting talented people.

So are cultural amenities not particularly important? Or perhaps they're somewhat important, but Silicon Valley is such a draw it doesn't need anything else? And maybe Cleveland would be in much worse shape if it didn't have a world-class orchestra? I don't know the answer but I suspect cultural amenities aren't high up on the list of regional employment draws.

[Bham1982]

California does have good local art museums. I suggest you visit Balboa Park in San Diego.

San Diego doesn't have any nationally reknowned cultural instutitions.

[ghettopalmetto]

But is an art museum one of these amenities? Again, there is no world class cultural institution anywhere in Silicon Valley. There isn't even a middling cultural institution anywhere in San Jose/Sunnyvale/Menlo Park etc. Yet they seem to have no problem attracting talented people.

And places like Cleveland and Pittsburgh are packed with world-class cultural amenities, including art museums, but have a very tough time attracting talented people.

So are cultural amenities not particularly important? Or perhaps they're somewhat important, but Silicon Valley is such a draw it doesn't need anything else? And maybe Cleveland would be in much worse shape if it didn't have a world-class orchestra? I don't know the answer but I suspect cultural amenities aren't high up on the list of regional employment draws.

With all the excuses you've made today for not paying a lousy $15 annual tax, you've lost at least that much money due to your lack of productivity.

Also, you're being transferred to Alabama. Please do write to us and explain how cultural amenities do not matter.

[Shollin]

San Diego doesn't have any nationally reknowned cultural instutitions.

Balboa Park is a nationally renowned cultural institution. Many cities in California are quite old.

[ghettopalmetto]

Balboa Park is a nationally renowned cultural institution. Many cities in California are quite old.

You'll have to forgive Bham1982. He's not really cognizant that a world beyond the Pleasant Peninsulas actually exists. And if it does, there's no way there's anything better than what he has in Oakland County.

[corktownyuppie]

Balboa Park is a nationally renowned cultural institution. Many cities in California are quite old.

In all seriousness, though, can we get the topic changed? Should be "Suburbs millage for Detroit Institute of Arts".

[313WX]

But is an art museum one of these amenities? Again, there is no world class cultural institution anywhere in Silicon Valley. There isn't even a middling cultural institution anywhere in San Jose/Sunnyvale/Menlo Park etc. Yet they seem to have no problem attracting talented people.

And places like Cleveland and Pittsburgh are packed with world-class cultural amenities, including art museums, but have a very tough time attracting talented people.

So are cultural amenities not particularly important? Or perhaps they're somewhat important, but Silicon Valley is such a draw it doesn't need anything else? And maybe Cleveland would be in much worse shape if it didn't have a world-class orchestra? I don't know the answer but I suspect cultural amenities aren't high up on the list of regional employment draws.

It's funny you bring that up, it reminds me of this article...

http://rustwire.com/2011/03/11/michi...iving-us-away/

[corktownyuppie]

San Diego doesn't have any nationally reknowned cultural instutitions.

I'd say that the San Diego Zoo is pretty nationally renowned.

[DetroitPlanner]

Is there any evidence that having a world class art museum stabilizes home values and makes the region more attractive to others?

Because I don't see any strong relationship between quality of the local art museum and desirability of real estate or strength of job market.

Generally speaking, good art museums in the U.S. tend to be in the older parts of the country, since that's where the people and money were back when collections were amassed.

There are very few good art museums in places like California, Arizona, and Florida, and there are many in places like New York, Pennsylvania, and Michigan.

I would say there's no strong relationship whatsoever between quality of local art museum and property values or job market.

Ever hear of the Getty? Its free, world class, and is located in one of the richest places in the United States. Of course the Getty Family picks up most of the tab of keeping it open through foundations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getty_Center

1.3 million people visit the Getty's main campus every year. These folks come and spend money. Not all of the money they spend is at the museum because the museum itself is located in a mountain surrpunded by nothing. They will stay in the City or the suburbs.

Stop shooting for the lowest acceptable way of living. You may be fine with a Walmart lifestyle, but quality is what attracts people and provide for economic development.

Good art museums will attract families and those who are educated. They will provide inspiration for those who need it. They do a lot more to instill creativity than walking around a mall ever will.

[corktownyuppie]

It's funny you bring that up, it reminds me of this article...

http://rustwire.com/2011/03/11/michi...iving-us-away/

+1 for 313WX. Great article.

[DetroitPlanner]

The bottom line for me is not whether or nor I should subsidize DIA, it's trhat I don't want any of

After all, you took english in high school and it did not do you any good. Why take a class in typing or keyboarding? Thats women's work! No need to be conversant to have a civil discourse.

[ghettopalmetto]

Thinking back a few years, there was once a ballot question as to whether it was acceptable to use taxpayer funds to build Comerica Park and Ford Field. The overwhelming response was that it was absolutely necessary, or else the Tigers and Lions would leave town.

But ask for a small pittance of money for something beautiful and educational that benefits EVERYONE in the region, and suddenly folks get cranky. What a sad commentary on the values of modern Metropolitan Detroit. I like to think that James Scripps [[among others) helped begin the DIA because he wanted to push the aspirations of his fellow Detroiters beyond the pedantic and ordinary.

[poobert]

I would say there's no strong relationship whatsoever between quality of local art museum and property values or job market.

Okay, well, that's a pretty sweeping statement, based on an entirely arbitrary comparison.

Then look at the global cities of the world, specifically the alpha categories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city

Virtually all of them have a mind-blowing assortment of cultural institutions. Virtually all of them are also economic powerhouses. Look at little Zurich, renowned for its art scene, which has a population of 376,000. That's about the population of Livonia, Warren, and Troy combined. Think if we slapped them together they'd make the alpha list? I hear there's lazer tag.

[coracle]

After all, you took english in high school and it did not do you any good. Why take a class in typing or keyboarding? Thats women's work! No need to be conversant to have a civil discourse.

If you checked you dummy you would see the post doesn't exist because I deleted it unfinished.

[Shollin]

Thinking back a few years, there was once a ballot question as to whether it was acceptable to use taxpayer funds to build Comerica Park and Ford Field. The overwhelming response was that it was absolutely necessary, or else the Tigers and Lions would leave town.

But ask for a small pittance of money for something beautiful and educational that benefits EVERYONE in the region, and suddenly folks get cranky. What a sad commentary on the values of modern Metropolitan Detroit. I like to think that James Scripps [[among others) helped begin the DIA because he wanted to push the aspirations of his fellow Detroiters beyond the pedantic and ordinary.

To be fair that was used with hotel and rental car tax and not property tax.

[Hermod]

OK, so 200,000 people moved into the city of Detroit 1940-1950.

How many of the 200,000 moving in came here because of the art museum?

How many came here because of the zoo?

How many came here because of the "water-winter wonderland"?

How many came here for the money?

[ghettopalmetto]

OK, so 200,000 people moved into the city of Detroit 1940-1950.

How many of the 200,000 moving in came here because of the art museum?

How many came here because of the zoo?

How many came here because of the "water-winter wonderland"?

How many came here for the money?

I understand what you're saying, Hermod. The ability to make a living is first and foremost . But for people who have choices [[i.e. the folks Detroit seems to have difficulty retaining and attracting), Quality of Life is a close second. Hell, in some cases, Quality of Life is first. I've met a whole slew of people who have moved somewhere, and then decided to find a job--even if that means underemployment.

It's a far different market than that of the 1940s. Not too many 20-and-30-somethings have an army of six children to feed.

With my profession, I can live anywhere in the country I choose. If I were offered a job in say, Anniston, Alabama that paid double the salary, I would most assuredly turn it down. There just wouldn't be enough to engage me the other 128 hours of the week.

[Shollin]

OK, so 200,000 people moved into the city of Detroit 1940-1950.

How many of the 200,000 moving in came here because of the art museum?

How many came here because of the zoo?

How many came here because of the "water-winter wonderland"?

How many came here for the money?

The only thing is, it's not the 40's anymore. Companies aren't going to locate to Detroit if they can't attract people.

[1953]

The Ford's were certainly interested in talent attraction and retention, which is why they created housing developments and were leaders in expanding the DIA, among other institutions!

[poobert]

Virtually all of these fanatical anti-tax voters here are going to vote for one of the two deeply flawed presidential candidates this fall, yet have no qualms at all about dooming our art museum. Not willing to compromise on an entirely negligable tax, but when it comes to the whole country? Sure!

[corktownyuppie]

Virtually all of these fanatical anti-tax voters here are going to vote for one of the two deeply flawed presidential candidates this fall, yet have no qualms at all about dooming our art museum. Not willing to compromise on an entirely negligable tax, but when it comes to the whole country? Sure!

Well, this is like the people who blame the pennies and nickels we spend on education or homeland security but are totally willing to ignore the $1000 checks we throw around paying for Social Security, Medicare, and Defense.

[Detroitnerd]

OK, so 200,000 people moved into the city of Detroit 1940-1950.

How many of the 200,000 moving in came here because of the art museum?

How many came here because of the zoo?

How many came here because of the "water-winter wonderland"?

How many came here for the money?

That auto boom and the war work boom probably proved to be more damaging to the city than any previous influx of people. They came without any interest in local institutions or without any historical roots in the area. An older Detroiter told me, “That’s when people started locking their doors.”

But the consensus seems to be that people don’t only move for jobs. People put a premium on their living environment, and their sensibilities do seem to be beyond the ken of our local “leaders.” Rust Wire blogger S.A. put it well:

"Everyone attributes young people moving away from this area because of lack of opportunity. I attribute it to lack of good leadership and hope for a better region because of that deficiency. When you have the right people in charge of a place, young people will stay and take chances, hoping to stay near their families. When they inherently feel like the leadership of a place is making decisions that destabilize their future prospects, they leave. No one wants to talk about that as a factor in brain drain. All they want to attribute it to is lack of job opportunity instead of lack of openness to new ideas for different kinds of economies and industries."

[Detroitnerd]

My apologies for my uncalled retort made on the run.

My apologies for my uncalled-for retort made on the run.