15 Detroit Fire Companies closing, nearly 200 demotions

[jcdfde5]

The other side of the coin is you have a culture that somehow finds it fun and inconsequential to burn its own city to ashes.

I guess there are a couple of ways to skin this cat.

This city has not viewed ARSON as a crime for 30 yrs...
I believe it has been the single most destructive crime that this city has!

[adamjab19]

The other side of the coin is you have a culture that somehow finds it fun and inconsequential to burn its own city to ashes.

I guess there are a couple of ways to skin this cat.

I do feel bad for DFD and the city's residents because really it's the city's shittiest residents who are the real culprits. I am thankful I live in a town that it's residents respect theirs and others property and pride themselves in a low calls to their EMS/fire department.

So do you get more money and keeping flushing it through the system to fight fires or do you fight it by increasing punishment and catching those who set the fires and fine those that have improper wiring?

[j to the jeremy]

We as a membership [[DFFA) came to the city with a plan that would put more firefighters on the street and save the city more money than they currently are.. The city signed the agreement and the state said that it was not enough so it was scrapped!!
I think the State is already running this city and they don't understand the importance of the police and fire dept.
They view us as the problem and want to dissmantle what's left.

Very disturbing and unsurprising. Austerity being dictated from on high, despite the fatal consequences. The State of Michigan does not want Detroit to be a vibrant city, they just want to gut it because they see it as too far gone to help. When people who live there want to fix problems, they are not respected.

The transit has been privatized and light rail scrapped. Homeless shelters closed. Parks and rec have been selling off properties. DPS is selling schools and consolidating the rest. Police have already been dangerously cut. Fire is next.

Prison funding increases each year.

God this state makes me crazy.

[jcdfde5]

The suburbs are not immune to crime.
With the current agenda of decreasing public safety and using the excuse that we are broke what city is next?
Highland Park was one of the most beautiful cities in America.
Eastpointe?
Warren?
Ferndale?
Southfield?

[TKshreve]

I do feel bad for DFD and the city's residents because really it's the city's shittiest residents who are the real culprits. I am thankful I live in a town that it's residents respect theirs and others property and pride themselves in a low calls to their EMS/fire department.

So do you get more money and keeping flushing it through the system to fight fires or do you fight it by increasing punishment and catching those who set the fires and fine those that have improper wiring?

In all honesty, fines and sentences are a fart in the wind towards "rewiring" the Detroit culture. If you can fix the education, and find ways to cultivate jobs and commerce then you're taking a bigger step than any authoritarian kind of plan. But the third peg has to be family planning. Without it, there will still be generations of kids not held to standards of going to school and jumping into society in a reasonable fashion. Without a proper family structure, they will most definitely continue to fall through the cracks.

But looking deeper you will find all the nasty challenges that oppose reaching such accomplishments. Start with the leaders who squander and/or pilfer money. Or the rampant war on drugs and all of its nasty externalities. How about the defunct city services that leave an outrageous gap between what is now provided and what is needed. And the dwindling tax base. Lat thing Detroit needs is less tax payers. The casinos don't help either if you ask me.

Seems vague and almost too much. Ya know, like a pipe dream. But that's how I would focus on rebooting the prosperity of our yesteryears.

[Meddle]

Prison funding increases each year.

If it didn't, where would you put all the dirtbags you want more police to arrest?

[mikefmich]

Why spend money on the FD? Cutting the FD budget saves money two ways since every building that burns to the ground is one less they have to pay to have demolished.

You do realize that not every structure is vacant? How would you feel if it was your place on fire?

[Hermod]

Well, if Detroit land was so in demand then, why were they building single family units instead of multi-family units on lots that should have demanded more density? That's usually what the market dictates when population increases to a point where the city gets built out.

Because there wasn't a magic wall at 8-Mile. If they had built multi-units, the couple with two kids would have gone elsewhere to fulfill their single family dream. It wasn't like Manhatten. Detroit was never squeezed between natural boundaries. Detroit had been growing out for decades. The Grand Boulevards were originally as far as Detroit would grow. Then it was Outer Drive. Then Detroit grew past 8-Mile.

The Detroit dream was always a single house on a lot. This dream was reinforced after WWII.

[Ray1936]

Not long ago, on a different thread, a poster took a shot at City of Detroit retirees not living in the city.

Gee, I wonder why?

[Scottathew]

We're sitting here in the richest country in the world, talking about how "there isn't any money." Seems to me that what we're really saying is that the people who control the money have decided that Detroit shouldn't have any of it. Maybe you agree with that decision, and maybe you don't, but let's not act like Detroit's financial constraints are the result of some immutable law of the universe.

Nope, just mis-management, stealing, and horrible union contracts. Throwing more money at Detroit isn't the answer. Detroit needs to be fixed.

Although I do agree with others that non-core services should be gutted before police and fire are.

[Richard]

The grant has been approved for rehires in September bringing the total loss of firefighters to 53.

What effect will a loss of 53 firefighters have at this point?
Out of those 53 how many are not boots on the street and are upper management?
Have they fixed the communication issues that surrounded the firestorm?

The firefighters that currantaly are not going to be retained when you are called back what conditions on pay,retirement,benefits,union or non union are you going to be offered with? or is that not on the slate as of now?

[Hermod]

If it didn't, where would you put all the dirtbags you want more police to arrest?

Lease an island of "green hell" in the Solomons. Take the criminals there 'cargo class" in a very slow cattle boat. When you get to the island, hand him a shovel, a hoe, and a box of seeds. "We'll be back for you in 25 years".

[shovelhead]

We as a membership [[DFFA) came to the city with a plan that would put more firefighters on the street and save the city more money than they currently are.. The city signed the agreement and the state said that it was not enough so it was scrapped!!
I think the State is already running this city and they don't understand the importance of the police and fire dept.
They view us as the problem and want to dissmantle what's left.

On the policing side, hasn't the Michigan State Police and Wayne county Sheriff's Department started working with DPD as the newspapers stated a couple of days ago? And didn't a lot of outside agencies assist Detroit at the fireworks this year?

There's a finite amount of money that can be used. And there are a lot of municipalities in this state that are hurting. Not Detroit bashing, but doesn't Flint, Pontiac, Highland Park deserve assistance too? Should we bankrupt the whole state and give everything to Detroit so it can be mismanaged?

I have nothing but respect for DPD and DFD, don't take this as a bashing thread to them. Has City Council made any meaningful cuts, such as in their own budget for staffing and maybe their own pay? Or is that not on the table? Do they still have city assigned cars and in some cases a driver? If they can't drive, what about a van pool? If they need security, a van pool, one officer should be sufficient.

Why hasn't the City Council tried to get financial assistance from the Federal Government? Or is there no money there either?

[Meddle]

Has City Council made any meaningful cuts, such as in their own budget for staffing and maybe their own pay? Or is that not on the table?

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...g-office-staff

[Meddle]

Lease an island of "green hell" in the Solomons. Take the criminals there 'cargo class" in a very slow cattle boat. When you get to the island, hand him a shovel, a hoe, and a box of seeds. "We'll be back for you in 25 years".

Cough-Cough-Australia..........

You DO know the history there, don't ya'?

[shovelhead]

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...g-office-staff

I didn't think so....

[313WX]

On the policing side, hasn't the Michigan State Police and Wayne county Sheriff's Department started working with DPD as the newspapers stated a couple of days ago? And didn't a lot of outside agencies assist Detroit at the fireworks this year?

There's a finite amount of money that can be used. And there are a lot of municipalities in this state that are hurting. Not Detroit bashing, but doesn't Flint, Pontiac, Highland Park deserve assistance too? Should we bankrupt the whole state and give everything to Detroit so it can be mismanaged?

I have nothing but respect for DPD and DFD, don't take this as a bashing thread to them. Has City Council made any meaningful cuts, such as in their own budget for staffing and maybe their own pay? Or is that not on the table? Do they still have city assigned cars and in some cases a driver? If they can't drive, what about a van pool? If they need security, a van pool, one officer should be sufficient.

Why hasn't the City Council tried to get financial assistance from the Federal Government? Or is there no money there either?

Would the state be willing to send Detroit through a Chapter 9 bankruptcy.

Otherwise, with all due respect, your point is fairly moot.

[shovelhead]

Would the state be willing to send Detroit through a Chapter 9 bankruptcy.

Otherwise, with all due respect, your point is fairly moot.

I'm not familiar with bankruptcy for municipalities, limited with bankruptcy for businesses. But IIRC if a payment plan can be agreed upon by all parties it is one type. If all parties cannot agree a liquidation of all assets is forced. So unless the state is the only one owed to by the city they could force bankruptcy. Am I wrong or right?

And I know that I was stating a moot point, just that the state cannot create money like the federal government can.

So why hasn't the Obama administration came to the rescue of cities across the country? Is it the federal government agenda for Detroit to fail too?

[Richard]

And I know that I was stating a moot point, just that the state cannot create money like the federal government can.

So why hasn't the Obama administration came to the rescue of cities across the country? Is it the federal government agenda for Detroit to fail too?

They have ,not by per say writing a blank check,but they do it other ways that are supposed to impact the most per dollar spent ,the firefighters did get a Gov grant so they can rehire ,they send grants for neighborhood revitalization,they send grants for mass transit if it provides a impact,grants to help the poor,weak and jobless,they sent billions to cities to offset or help absorb the housing crash and divert foreclosure,the state of Michigan received 239 billion in 2009 alone in fed grants.

53% of the country are on the gov food assistance program.

They send it, but where it goes after that and if it is used for its intended purpose is a whole different story.

It is not on their agenda for the city to fail ,it becomes their agenda when they send funds and they go poof,and the street lights do not work and the neighborhoods are in ruin and public safety is at risk.

[MidTownMs]

The suburbs are not immune to crime.
With the current agenda of decreasing public safety and using the excuse that we are broke what city is next?
Highland Park was one of the most beautiful cities in America.
Eastpointe?
Warren?
Ferndale?
Southfield?

What you said about Highland Park is absolutely correct. In the mid-sixties I went to the wedding of a co-worker who lived on California St. between Woodward and Oakland. The block was absolutely beautiful. The trees formed the most beautiful arch I had ever seen. A couple of years ago I decided to drive down California to see the house. I was shocked with what I saw. No trees and I didn't recognize the house. There are still some very beautiful blocks in Highland Park but it's very sad to see what's happened there.

[313WX]

I'm not familiar with bankruptcy for municipalities, limited with bankruptcy for businesses. But IIRC if a payment plan can be agreed upon by all parties it is one type. If all parties cannot agree a liquidation of all assets is forced. So unless the state is the only one owed to by the city they could force bankruptcy. Am I wrong or right?

And I know that I was stating a moot point, just that the state cannot create money like the federal government can.

So why hasn't the Obama administration came to the rescue of cities across the country? Is it the federal government agenda for Detroit to fail too?

Per my understanding, assets can't be touched in a municipal bankruptcy.

Th main thing the bankruptcy judge can do is toss out all pension and union obligations, which is the lion's share of Detroit's debt. They [[the BJ) also have an obligation to make sure sufficient services are delivered to Detroit's citizens, unlike under the FSA.

That's where the aid comes in. I'm sure the US government would be more than willing to bail out the city if it can restructure its debt, which is what I would prefer to happen.

[jcdfde5]

R

The grant has been approved for rehires in September bringing the total loss of firefighters to 53.

What effect will a loss of 53 firefighters have at this point?
Out of those 53 how many are not boots on the street and are upper management?
Have they fixed the communication issues that surrounded the firestorm?

The firefighters that currantaly are not going to be retained when you are called back what conditions on pay,retirement,benefits,union or non union are you going to be offered with? or is that not on the slate as of now?

53 guys is 12 companies all your youngest firefighters.
6 more closings on any given day!
The grant will not take effect until September.
Layoffs will be no later than Aug 10th.
165guys gone for at least a mont.
Communication was not a factor during the firestorm lack of manpower for downed power lines and wind blown fires..

[Wheels]

As if things weren't bad enough, here come the scrappers. Neighborhoods should band together and catch these lowlife.


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...oit-firehouses

[shovelhead]

They have ,not by per say writing a blank check,but they do it other ways that are supposed to impact the most per dollar spent ,the firefighters did get a Gov grant so they can rehire ,they send grants for neighborhood revitalization,they send grants for mass transit if it provides a impact,grants to help the poor,weak and jobless,they sent billions to cities to offset or help absorb the housing crash and divert foreclosure,the state of Michigan received 239 billion in 2009 alone in fed grants.

53% of the country are on the gov food assistance program.

They send it, but where it goes after that and if it is used for its intended purpose is a whole different story.

It is not on their agenda for the city to fail ,it becomes their agenda when they send funds and they go poof,and the street lights do not work and the neighborhoods are in ruin and public safety is at risk.

I agree,my point exactly, but am tired of the conspiracy theories that say Governor Snyder wants Detroit to fail. It makes no sense at all that a state government would want a municipality to fail, especially one that is so identifiable with Michigan. the failure of, say, Bangor [[not implying, just an example, how many here have ever heard of it or know where it is?)would not even rate a filler article in a newspaper except for a local one.

I don't see the federal government delivering a blank check to the city treasurer's office either. As well it should not. The state and federal governments should require disbursements from grant monies to be controlled by them as the city seems to be unable to handle it themselves.

And while I have not seen anything to back up the statement that 53% of the country is on food stamps, if this is true we all should be scared as Hell of what direction this country is headed for in the next ten years. And maybe business as usual doesn't work.

[313WX]

As if things weren't bad enough, here come the scrappers. Neighborhoods should band together and catch these lowlife.


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...oit-firehouses

Wow. They sure are getting quicker!!!