Michigan Central Station Lights

**FlyingJ** · June-27-12, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

The building was constructed at a time when the new York Central Railroad operated as a series of decentralized companies. It was the headquarters of the Michigan Central, one of those companies. As a result, it had to house the offices and executive suites of the Michigan Central Railroad, the offices of the Detroit Division of the Michigan Central, and a small army of car clerks and freight clerks. That is the reason you have a large office building on top of the concourse of a major city railroad station. By 1971, the executive offices had been consolidated elsewhere, the freight clerks and car clerks had been replaced by computers, and the number of passenger trains had dwindled into insignificance.

Even if passenger rail travel meets a post-oil comeback, you won't need the office building and an AMSHACK can handle a dozen or more trains daily. The office portion is in the wrong location for future development.

In other words, the building is functionally obsolete and has few prospects to be repurposed.

That's a concise way to put in, ironic when the descendant of Commodore Vanderbilt himself comes to town he broadcasts live from a shabby bar on 12 Mile Road a hop away from the ol' Pennsylvania RR tracks[[& what a trainwreck that Penn Central merger was) trying to pin down why Detroit's screwed up http://supergaydetroit.blogspot.com/...er-cooper.html

**JRich2425** · June-27-12, 06:00 PM

Not that this is in any way realistic, but I like to dream of MCS being reborn as a new international train station. Imagine amtrak, via rail, and an extensive detroit commuter rail system culminating at MCS. A customs department is added to the station and the train companies work together to allow for transfers between canadian and american trains to take place. Heck, maroun can even build his bridge [[for rail rather than autos). The station flourishes as a symbol of the ressurection not only of a great city but also of the passenger rail system as a whole. Too bad thatll never happen.

**Tig3rzhark** · June-27-12, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by JRich2425

Not that this is in any way realistic, but I like to dream of MCS being reborn as a new international train station. Imagine amtrak, via rail, and an extensive detroit commuter rail system culminating at MCS. A customs department is added to the station and the train companies work together to allow for transfers between canadian and american trains to take place. Heck, maroun can even build his bridge [[for rail rather than autos). The station flourishes as a symbol of the ressurection not only of a great city but also of the passenger rail system as a whole. Too bad thatll never happen.

I can imagine the possiblities of more cooperation between Via rail and AmTrak. It is difficult for a biker to get across the river, unless you're carrying a bike bag on a Transit Windsor bus. And the driver might not let you bring it across the river.

Or get personal permission from Matty to cross the Ambassador Bridge on your bike.

There's a good reason that Moroun [[Moron) purchased the Michigan Central Depot. One of them, I'm sure, is to make sure that passenger rail across the Detroit River no longer occurs, and secure the profits he's making on his own bridge.

The man is afraid of competition.

About Moron building a bridge for rail: There's not a need for that. In-between the bridge and car tunnel, is another rail tunnel, but is only used by freight now. It used to be used by passenger rail, but not anymore.

**Wheels** · June-27-12, 07:04 PM

Does Manny own the train tunnel?

**Richard** · June-27-12, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Does Manny own the train tunnel?

No and you can read here about it.

http://www.detroitchamber.com/index....ion&Itemid=178

And you can see why it was purchased and how it can easily become a viable asset again through a mixture of rail ,retail,small boutique hotel and residential. Which would make it a bit better then another parking lot.

**splake** · June-27-12, 07:51 PM

I wondered briefly, if I were to own a burned out, vandalized, unsafe and decrepit historic house in historic Detroit would I have the 'vision' to rebuild it? No, I don't think I would want to waste my time, other people's time and my hard earned money trying to undo the past and 'preserve' history. I would rather invest that energy in the future. The history of some of these buildings is no longer worth saving. We would be better off if they had been torn down and forgotten the day after they closed. Today the history of the Packard, Fisher 21, MCS and others is tarnished with the hard downfall of the city and the people [[like frozen hobos in the elevator shaft) At some point we need to draw the line, and MCS is just another wreck. Haul it away already and let's begin to build our future, instead of preserving these reminders of our failures.

sincerely,
Abraham Lincoln
vampire killer + historic building slayer

**Richard** · June-27-12, 08:14 PM

Yesterday's failure becomes today's failure , the buildings did not fail so sweeping them under the rug solves nothing and becomes tommorows failure.

**JRich2425** · June-27-12, 08:54 PM

Not to get entirely off topic, but why hasn't Via taken advantage of the rail tunnel and pursued a train station in Detroit?

GUSHI · June-27-12, 09:15 PM

Use it to commute to Ann arbor, Chicago etc, use the office space as a museum, for the history of trains, it's a beautiful building would be sad to knock it down.

**Richard** · June-27-12, 09:50 PM

The problem is not the building or the owner it is the
city that surrounds it.

As a transit center it meets all 6 requirements for FTA
funding ,but it also takes the support of the community
which it does not have because of all of the hatred which
at this point outweighs community pride and the greater
good.

**splake** · June-27-12, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Yesterday's failure becomes today's failure , the buildings did not fail so sweeping them under the rug solves nothing and becomes tommorows failure.

Sweeping it under the rug = restoring them.

**splake** · June-27-12, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

...but it also takes the support of the community
which it does not have because of all of the hatred which
at this point outweighs community pride and the greater
good.

hatred can never outweigh the good. What hatred do you mean? You mean frustration? It seems more of a battle between logic and unrealistic, romantic, daydreamers. People support restoring this building because they lack any better ideas. The community needs greater ideas to rally behind. Like a space station.

**rjlj** · June-27-12, 11:43 PM

The lazy, brainless reaction is to tear down something that was made to be magnificent. 80 years ago, buildings in Detroit were not made from cardboard for a reason. Ignorant decisions have made Detroit baron and insignificant while creative decisions have made other cities thrive. Will it be too late before Detroit learns?

**Gistok** · June-28-12, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by splake

I wondered briefly, if I were to own a burned out, vandalized, unsafe and decrepit historic house in historic Detroit would I have the 'vision' to rebuild it? No, I don't think I would want to waste my time, other people's time and my hard earned money trying to undo the past and 'preserve' history. I would rather invest that energy in the future. The history of some of these buildings is no longer worth saving. We would be better off if they had been torn down and forgotten the day after they closed. Today the history of the Packard, Fisher 21, MCS and others is tarnished with the hard downfall of the city and the people [[like frozen hobos in the elevator shaft) At some point we need to draw the line, and MCS is just another wreck. Haul it away already and let's begin to build our future, instead of preserving these reminders of our failures.

.... "torn down and forgotten the day after they closed"... with that mentality... we wouldn't have a single surviving restored former movie palace in our entertainment district...

And just think... if everything was ripped down the day after it closed... we would have more historic sites like Ben Franklin's Philadelphia house... Franklin Court....
http://www.nps.gov/inde/franklin-court.htm

Note the sleek hip modern aluminum tubing where the house once stood...

**Detroitdave** · June-28-12, 05:38 AM

For all the people saying it's time for MCS to be torn down, the same argument was used for the Book Cadillac . Can you image the corner of Washington and Michigan as a empty lot?
Buildings like these will NEVER be built again .it's way too expensive and most of the "artist" are no longer around , so we don't have the talent to build like that anymore.
We become accustomed to cheap and easy building , just check out the "new" buildings they are building today. Their life span is only about 30 years ,after that it's expected that either the people will move on or it will be torn down.
This reminds me of the saying ,if you think an education is expensive , try life without one .
We are blessed with the architecture that our parents and grandparents build, we enjoy their legacy of architecture, what will we leave [[architecturally) for the next generation ?
When I read on line that people that visit Detroit from NYC, Chicago, ect.
The thing I hear most is "wow I didn't know Detroit has such amazing architecture "
It would be a HUGE mistake to tear down MCS.
It's really sad that such a SOB is in charge of it . He knew what he was buying when he bought it and had NO plans for it .
He bought it for one reason and one reason alone , to make sure he would NEVER have any competition , so this is what we are stuck with .
Just because someone has money doesn't mean he has the best intentions .i.e [[ambassador bridge)[[MCS)
Hopefully the city had learn from this huge mistake and the next time someone with deep pockets wants to just buy up huge parts of the city they will ask "what are you plans for this building"

**splake** · June-28-12, 09:36 PM

Perhaps you are right. I am indeed grateful we still have the hotel. If using the cheapest low-grade materials and overpaid no-talent union labor is what it takes to preserve a building, I guess I can learn to accept it... for history's sake [[and profits). I guess there has to be some compromise.

**jpbollma** · June-28-12, 10:49 PM

it would be such a shame to lose it. When I had to choose between moving to GR and Detroit, I chose Detroit. One of the reasons was the amazing architecture!

**wolverine** · June-28-12, 11:43 PM

I have very limited ideas due to its size and location, but back in college I did a fictitious studio project where the station was integrated into a brand new convention hall. The existing Cobo Center was entirely demolished and changed to a Hart plaza extension and residential development. The people mover was extended connecting MGM, Motorcity, Corktown, Mexicantown and MCS. This would allow easy access to this new convention hall.

The convention hall would be elevated over the tracks and the renovated station would serve as a hotel and large lobby to the convention hall. Plenty of space over there to grow and expand and good connecting freeway service. If desired, an Amtrak station could be built, but it would be nothing fancy.

My plan is running $3 billion. Any donors?

**Detroitdave** · June-29-12, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

I have very limited ideas due to its size and location, but back in college I did a fictitious studio project where the station was integrated into a brand new convention hall. The existing Cobo Center was entirely demolished and changed to a Hart plaza extension and residential development. The people mover was extended connecting MGM, Motorcity, Corktown, Mexicantown and MCS. This would allow easy access to this new convention hall.

The convention hall would be elevated over the tracks and the renovated station would serve as a hotel and large lobby to the convention hall. Plenty of space over there to grow and expand and good connecting freeway service. If desired, an Amtrak station could be built, but it would be nothing fancy.

My plan is running $3 billion. Any donors?

Great ideas, I hadn't thought of moving the convention center , however I doubt that will happen since they are currently renovating it now .
I will check my bank account and see what I can spare :-)
I wish !

**Ronjm23** · June-29-12, 06:06 PM

See this link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gyoza/7256398350/?q=utica ny train station This is the Amtrak station in Utica, NY. I remember when it was a ramshackled old building but efforts were made at restoreation and it is beautiful. The Mi Central is in far worse shape but it can be done . . . if someone really wants it to happen.

**Richard** · June-30-12, 11:52 AM

The biggest problem with many buildings in Detroit is the lack of demand so you really have to look at creating a demand for the specific building in order to make it feasible.

An example of this is Mr. Gilbert what he is doing is buying buildings that will complement the demand that he has created making them once again desirable and enhancing the value.

So with the case of MCS as a transit facility how would you create the demand to make it feasible to rehabilitate as an asset to the community.

You have the Wolverine line being created from Chicago to Detroit,with a boutique hotel in the station and the line using the station you could have tourists coming to Detroit and staying at the hotel,so you have now created a use and supplemented the tourist trade.Adding jobs and revenue to the community.

Residents from Detroit could then use the station to travel to Chicago while leaving their car in secured parking for the weekend for a small fee of course or they could take the bus to the station and not even need to park,same as taking the street car.

So now you have a train stop a bus stop a street car stop a hotel,parking and a destination for tourists all generating revenue.Now you can throw in a few gift shops and maybe even a tourist shuttle to explore the city and of course all those things need employees which are jobs and additional small business options.

You need a RTA so why not have an office there?

You have a tunnel that needs expanding so it could be expanded to use MCS and have the customs office there ,more jobs and revenue.

Now you can add Amtrak as they do not need so much space and could offer a smaller monthly payment.

As a transit center now you could add Greyhound bus lines to the mix.

Personally I think it would be desirable to have lofts in the top floors as transit would be at your feet.

Because it is transit related it opens up FTA funds for not only the station but also Corktown improvements,so now you have taken a derelict building and not only enhanced it as an asset to the city you have used it to create jobs,expand public transportation for the entire region,added possibilities for the tourism industry and more jobs,and became a center point for building a stronger surrounding community.

It does not take billions and it can be done using already available funding and the support of the community to get it started and yes also a lot of things need to fall into place but if you look closely they already are in place but they need a bit of direction as to their finial stop.

**mikeg19** · June-30-12, 12:00 PM

Richard, you make a lot of really good points and I think that in order for MCS to become a successful rehab project, it would most likely have to be through a patchwork of businesses. The only thing I'm wondering is A) with the Rosa Parks transit hub only 2 miles away, would MCS really need to be another bus hub B) would people want to live in lofts above this place and have to deal with the noise and traffic of hundreds or thousands of people on a daily basis and C) another hotel in this market just seems like overkill at this point. At this point I think we should all just be pretty happy there is progress being made to clean it up and stabilize it from the elements. It'll make it that much more attractive to potential development.

**detroiter62** · June-30-12, 12:18 PM

I believe there are tracks are already in place that run from MCS to the Airport. I believe if a high speed line came into MCS from the airport you could bring people directly downtown from the airport. There could be a hotel in MCS to handle overflow from the airport, that way people could stay and gamble at the casinos and see a tiger game, yet the next morning hop on a train and get taken directly to the airport to catch their flight.

**Richard** · June-30-12, 01:18 PM

Boutique hotels by nature are not really designed for extended stay so I do not think that it would pose a conflict to other established hotels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boutique_hotel

Like D62 mentions if somebody comes in by flight and takes rail to MCS or comes on Wolverine encouraging them to stay overnight adds incentive to spend a few more dollars ,if it was easier for instance for somebody from Chicago to come see the Tigers would they do it?

The concept behind tourism is to squeeze every dollar possible and it is up to the host city to accommodate that concept.

Every large train station does have places like Star Buck's and restaurants but in MCS you could have local ownership,The owner of Joes coffee shop owns a house in Corktown.

The bus aspect could be changed as a stop verses a starting point,so if you live downtown you could take the street car or bus to MCS and take the train to Chicago,no car necessary.

The residential aspect I really do not think it would matter with the noise and would not be any different then living in New York city and hearing the city noises once you are in your loft you would not hear it anyways.It also adds to supporting the business inside if you are bored you could always go down and grab a cup of coffee or a beer and people watch or grab a bus to downtown for a more formal dinner and theater,this is from a 51 yo aspect.
If the top floors were lofts what a view it would be.

So to answer mikeeg19 if lofts became available in MCS would you like to lease one? and what advantages would it have for you?

Keeping in mind this is hypothetical to show that it is a plausible venture verse demolishing.

**CLAUDE G** · July-01-12, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

For all the people saying it's time for MCS to be torn down, the same argument was used for the Book Cadillac . Can you image the corner of Washington and Michigan as a empty lot?
Buildings like these will NEVER be built again .it's way too expensive and most of the "artist" are no longer around , so we don't have the talent to build like that anymore.
We become accustomed to cheap and easy building , just check out the "new" buildings they are building today. Their life span is only about 30 years ,after that it's expected that either the people will move on or it will be torn down.
This reminds me of the saying ,if you think an education is expensive , try life without one .
We are blessed with the architecture that our parents and grandparents build, we enjoy their legacy of architecture, what will we leave [[architecturally) for the next generation ?
When I read on line that people that visit Detroit from NYC, Chicago, ect.
The thing I hear most is "wow I didn't know Detroit has such amazing architecture "
It would be a HUGE mistake to tear down MCS.
It's really sad that such a SOB is in charge of it . He knew what he was buying when he bought it and had NO plans for it .
He bought it for one reason and one reason alone , to make sure he would NEVER have any competition , so this is what we are stuck with .
Just because someone has money doesn't mean he has the best intentions .i.e [[ambassador bridge)[[MCS)
Hopefully the city had learn from this huge mistake and the next time someone with deep pockets wants to just buy up huge parts of the city they will ask "what are you plans for this building"

Exactly!

Nobody is going to build a building like that again using as much Concrete and streel.

I hate Matty also, but on the other hand I would like to see Amtrack move back there and for us to have a train station to be proud of again.