Two articles about the fire department, same day, hours apart

**rb336** · June-25-12, 12:18 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...res-in-Detroit

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...xt%7CFRONTPAGE

**313WX** · June-25-12, 01:03 PM

Of course...

**5speedz34** · June-25-12, 02:10 PM

It's almost like a Greek tragedy.

**jpbollma** · June-25-12, 02:18 PM

It's really pathetic that with all of the cuts in essential services, the Mayor and the idiots in that Council haven't offered any concessions in pay or downsizing of their staffs. Detroit really has a leadership problem.

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

It's really pathetic that with all of the cuts in essential services, the Mayor and the idiots in that Council haven't offered any concessions in pay or downsizing of their staffs. Detroit really has a leadership problem.

Do you really think that the Mayor and City Council cut the budget by $250 million with significant cuts in PUBLIC SAFETY, but didn't cut their own budgets or staffs? I don't even need to go look up the budget to know that's not true. Please site the source of that factoid.

As a Detroiter, I am extremely troubled by all the cuts in the budget, but what other choice do they have? How can you cut $250 million without cutting at all in the departments that make up 2/3 of the budget?! The cuts to police and fire amount to no more than $25 or $30 million at the most. Where do you think the other $220 million or so is coming from? Everywhere else! Even though the employees everywhere else took a 10% pay cut while police and fire have not. If firefighters took a 10% paycut across the board that would probably yield the same amont of money as laying off 100+ firefighters AND they could be assured that there was enough manpower when they respond to those fires which benefits them in terms of personal safety.

**Meddle** · June-25-12, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Do you really think that the Mayor and City Council cut the budget by $250 million with significant cuts in PUBLIC SAFETY, but didn't cut their own budgets or staffs?

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

**Wheels** · June-25-12, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

Wasn't Puke trying to give his boy toy intern a big raise?

**jpbollma** · June-25-12, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

SORRY, I agree. I have found nothing about the Clowns taking any cuts.

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Show us otherwise. Show us that the Clowncil has given up their city cars and drivers/bodyguards and taken cuts to their salaries and staff.

Again, looking up the budget on the City's website would provide that info. The original poster has been invited [[by me) to back up their assertion. I'll wait. In the meantime, you can go to detroitmi.gov and go to the Budget Department where you will find budgets going back a number of years if you'd like to check for yourself.

**mam2009** · June-25-12, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

It's really pathetic that with all of the cuts in essential services, the Mayor and the idiots in that Council haven't offered any concessions in pay or downsizing of their staffs. Detroit really has a leadership problem.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...pproves_2.html

Geez! It takes such little effort to find objective facts. This was the third item that came up on my Google search for "City Council cuts its own budget". Now, again, I ask, where did you hear/read that the Mayor and City Council are NOT cutting their budgets?

**Wheels** · June-26-12, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by mam2009

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...pproves_2.html

Geez! It takes such little effort to find objective facts. This was the third item that came up on my Google search for "City Council cuts its own budget". Now, again, I ask, where did you hear/read that the Mayor and City Council are NOT cutting their budgets?

restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

Did you bother to read the dam thing? Great research! It must be the reason you are so well informed!

**mam2009** · June-26-12, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Wheels

restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

Did you bother to read the dam thing? Great research! It must be the reason you are so well informed!

Did YOU read the article, is the question. See text from the article below.

Among council's proposed revisions:

City Hall Parity: Bing's proposed budget called for a 39 percent reduction to the council budget and a 17 percent reduction to the mayor's office. Council sought parity by cutting both budgets by 20 percent, restoring $2.5 million to its own budget while cutting 118,636 from the mayor's.

TRANSLATION: The Mayor proposed a budget that cut HIS budget by 17% and the Council's budget by 39%. Once the Mayor forwarded his PROPOSED budget to the City Council, they decided instead that it was more equitable if both the Mayor's Office and the City Council budgets be cut by 20% cuts. So therefore the Council cut 20% from its own budget and 20% from the Mayor's budget. What is the percentage being cut in the Police and Fire Departments? I bet its not 20%. I'll let you do the math. Stop seeing only what you want to see.

**downtownguy** · June-25-12, 07:00 PM

"Since I became mayor, I've made public safety my top priority, and I've said I would protect the jobs of police and firefighters, but fiscal realities have made this untenable," Bing said.

How many sides of his mouth can this guy talk out of?

**cla1945** · June-25-12, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

Do you really think that the Mayor and City Council cut the budget by $250 million with significant cuts in PUBLIC SAFETY, but didn't cut their own budgets or staffs? I don't even need to go look up the budget to know that's not true. Please site the source of that factoid.

As a Detroiter, I am extremely troubled by all the cuts in the budget, but what other choice do they have? How can you cut $250 million without cutting at all in the departments that make up 2/3 of the budget?! The cuts to police and fire amount to no more than $25 or $30 million at the most. Where do you think the other $220 million or so is coming from? Everywhere else! Even though the employees everywhere else took a 10% pay cut while police and fire have not. If firefighters took a 10% paycut across the board that would probably yield the same amont of money as laying off 100+ firefighters AND they could be assured that there was enough manpower when they respond to those fires which benefits them in terms of personal safety.

Detroit Police and Fire took pay cuts about 6 years ago and haven't seen an increase since. Now, the administrators want them to take an even bigger pay cut, increase their health care premiums and give them less time off.

I have not seen ALL of the departments giving concessions...just a few. If ALL of the City Departments took equal pay concessions then I think you have a point, but until Pugh and the Council, Bings appointees and administrators take cuts they have no right to ask for more from police and fire. New recruits for the police department today can apply for aid from the State and get it, that's how little their salary is.

**jpbollma** · June-25-12, 08:56 PM

If the city actually provides the Clowns with bodyguards/cars that is just mind boggling to me. Also, I have been wondering this for a while...why does Detroit pay for their Mayors to live in a mansion? Don't these people already have a house? It all just seems like so much waste.

**Carey** · June-25-12, 09:46 PM

Fire union chief Dan McNamara talked to Deadline Detroit last week.
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic..._be_a_disaster

**mam2009** · June-26-12, 10:55 AM

What's the date on that article, jpbolima? Which is most recent? And, if I recall correctly that was a mid-year budget cut the Council was discussing in the article you referenced and they did cut, just not as deeply as some members had suggested. So once I find a source for that, that will make TWO instances within one year where the Council cut its own budget.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:47 AM

Here is another nice waste of money. The Human Rights Commission which is now written into the city charter.

The Missions Statement:

Mission
To remove discriminatory barriers through innovative, high quality, customer-driven programs that foster economic opportunity and empowerment and benefit Detroit residents, visitors, and the entrepreneurial sector of the local economy.
Major Goals
To ensure that internal and external customers are properly served
To optimize efficiencies and results by continually monitoring resources and activities
Explore alternative and innovative ways to fund and deliver services
Strategic Priorities
Accelerate Economic & Business Development
Improve Key Stakeholder Relationships [[Citizens, City Council, Employees, Business Community)

Clearly this commission isn't working, since there are still hardly any African American owned businesses in the city, which is really sad. I wonder who works in this department, what they are paid, and what the hell they are actually doing?

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:50 AM

Why does the City need City Airport? Why does each council person need their own budget, cell phone, body guard and a car while making over 70k per year when most of the city is in poverty? There is still a lot more they could do without inflicting more pain on their residents.

The 1963 Detroit City Charter says the mayor is in charge. He/she has all the responsibility/authority/ accountability to run the City. The Council is nothing more than a well-paid debating society of useless idiots.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:13 PM

Mam, I have noticed you still have not addressed city clownsil's personal pay, benefits, cell phones, cars, body guards, and staff budget even though Detroit has a "Strong Mayor" system.

You also avoided the question of whether you work for any of them. You clearly either work for one or are related to one. There can be no other answer. How can you look at the grinding poverty and despair in this city and only post to give comfort for the well to do in the bureaucracy?

As for you charging that people are here to be anti-Detroit and are paid for it?! LOL!!!!!! You are in a fantasy land. No one thinks Detroit is that important. Everyone here lives in Detroit, was forced to leave Detroit, Is taking a chance and moving TO Detroit, or is an outsider who obviously has an interest in Detroit. No one needs to pay to ruin Detroit...it's already been done.

The city is hopelessly bloated and out of control. I can only hope that the intellectuals in the younger generation along with the new transplants, and the hardcore Detroiters can take the city from the grips of injustice and pay-for-play rule and move into a new direction. By the way for any posters here..I am a liberal. I just hate seeing waste. So I may piss off conservatives, and I may piss off the entrenched Democratic leeches...but Detroit needs real leadership.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:17 PM

and just to reiterate, 10% does not cut it. so take that article of yours and find something better. It's a joke to anyone who knows the real situation.

**jpbollma** · June-26-12, 11:19 PM

I will also say, it is a social calamity when council is paid what it is, and needs free body guards [[ our national representatives don't even have this) but tell others that it's safe to live in the city. If it's so safe to be in the city why do they need personal protection? Perhaps they should really worry about the protection of their constituents. Perhaps these jobs should be part time to weed out the leeches.

**mam2009** · June-27-12, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by jpbollma

Mam, I have noticed you still have not addressed city clownsil's personal pay, benefits, cell phones, cars, body guards, and staff budget even though Detroit has a "Strong Mayor" system.

So what does that say about me? I am also not advocating FOR them to have all of that stuff either. All I did was ask a poster [[you) to independently verify that the Council had NOT cut their budgets as you stated in post #4. And with minimal effort we've found articles that contradict your "misinformation" [[read: fabricated lie). The articles point to the FACT that the City Council has cut its budget four times in the last three years. And we've seen that the Mayor's budget has been reduced as well.

Originally Posted by jpbollma

You also avoided the question of whether you work for any of them. You clearly either work for one or are related to one. There can be no other answer. How can you look at the grinding poverty and despair in this city and only post to give comfort for the well to do in the bureaucracy?

Generally, I don't respond to other posters unless I agree or I see an obvious and substantive misrepresentation of facts. I visit DetroitYES! to see what others are thinking about issues. Sometimes I'm amused, sometimes I'm incredulous, sometimes incensed, sometimes I learn something new, sometimes I begin to look at something in a whole different way than I ever might have if left on my own. So forgive me if I assumed that other posters like to learn from each other as I do.

I've given my disclaimer before on other threads as to why I'm so in tune with what goes on at MY City Council's meetings. I've mentioned who I USED to work for. And I'm not going to keep doing it on every single thread -- and I shouldn't have to. So, yes, I did ignore the question. If you want to know more about me, look at all my other posts. That's all you NEED to know.

Originally Posted by jpbollma

As for you charging that people are here to be anti-Detroit and are paid for it?! LOL!!!!!! You are in a fantasy land. No one thinks Detroit is that important...

Find me one post where I've said that people here are being "anti-Detroit". I said, they were being negative in their posts. I said they were not reading carefully. I said they were hateful in their posts. I said they were venomous in their posts. As for the comment I made about being paid to post lies and misinformation, why is that so far fetched? You and others have basically said that's the only reason I post the things I do.

**mam2009** · June-28-12, 06:50 AM

$22.5 Million Grant Will Help Keep Firefighters
http://m.freep.com/localnews/article...6280553&f=1232

Good News! Kudos to the Fire Commish & to Mayor Bing! Now they've got 2 years to figure how to make sure we can keep those firefighters once that grant money is gone [[if its not a renewable grant, that is).

Cue haters...

**Scottathew** · June-28-12, 07:08 AM

Detroit council is a joke. Their pay should be cut. They should have ZERO staff. They don't need someone to do their job.

Also, like almost every other person on this planet they can provide their own transportation to work.

I find it funny that some folks here are so protective over all the benefits that council members get. We've got council members in city cars with their own personal police officers while the average Joe can't even get an ambulance or police car to show up when they dial 911.