Mayor Dave Bing Asks for Corp Counsel's Resignation

**313WX** · June-23-12, 04:01 PM

Here are two articles for those who are mulling over the idea of a Detroit bankruptcy. One is about how San Digo would handle it pnsions in a bankruptcy and the other one features a bankruptcy lawyer, also in San Digo, making a good case for a Detroit bankruptcy...

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/gover...cc4c03286.html

http://farquharlaw.wordpress.com/201...nd-in-the-way/

**313WX** · June-23-12, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

So now they are using bond monies to cover costs while they are doing that if they cannot get along and actually work towards a strong city with good government ,promoting safety,investment,pride etc. it does not matter what you do you still have not gotten to the root of the problem,you have reacted to it and said the legacy costs are killing us and that is the easiest thing to go after,dump that and all the problems are solved.

You raise a good point with the bolded.

But first and foremost, the finances should be addressed.

I would be in favor of passing requirements where you must have a certain amount and type of education and experience to do anything in city government [[whether getting hired in, appointed, or elected) in the long term of course.

But in the mean time, most Detroiters like me just don't want to hear that it will take even longer for the police to come when I call them, or that more of my neighborhood will go dark at night. We couldn't care less about who's sleeping with who or who's not doing what at CAYMC if the above things are addressed.

**mam2009** · June-23-12, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Very interesting and insightful post.

Two questions:

1) What allows you to believe so strongly that 'self-governance' can solve Detroit's financial and structural problems -- when it was the method that got us here -- and has so far failed to stop the financial bleeding.

2) What do you think Detroit does to achieve financial stability?

1) What allows you to believe so strongly that 'self-governance' can solve Detroit's financial and structural problems -- when it was the method that got us here -- and has so far failed to stop the financial bleeding.

At the risk of sounding flip and simplistic -- self-governance is THE way of governing in the United States. Do you know of any other states in THIS country whose cities' day to day operations are presided over entirely by non-elected [[and/or non-resident) officials or by their state? Hell, even the president of the PTA is elected by the other parents in the school, not the principal! And the group makes decisions by majority consensus!

Although, there have been many counter-productive kick-the-can political decisions made on the local, state and federal levels by pandering politicians, politicians pander everywhere -- New York, Chicago, San Diego, Providence, Troy, Warren, Grand Rapids, Petoskey... Detroit's biggest fiscal problems are not unique to Detroit. Population loss [[which began in the 1950's, by the way) and its root sociological causes have just exacerbated our problem more quickly than other large cities. Population loss means less taxes/revenue. Less revenue means delays in technology investments and other process improvements that could reduce the need for a larger workforce, etc. Having a large workforce in this country has meant paying health care benefits and pensions to those employees. And since paying those people who've had health care [[whose costs continue to rise exponentially) and paying those pensions [[for folks who now live longer due to that excellent health care)eats even more into scarce revenue, we stay in the dark ages and since nobody wants to live in the dark ages, the cycle continues.

2) What do you think Detroit does to achieve financial stability?

Whatever Detroit does will not work without a large sum of free money. It takes money to save money. Ideally, you replace your whole roof before it caves in on you because it'll cost more to fix all the damage to your other belongings in addition to the cost of replacing the roof. A roof is not cheap and for most of us [[I'm assuming), you don't just have that kind of money sitting around in the bank. So either you patch it up little by little [[which ultimately costs more in the long-run), you borrow or you get lucky and a bag of free money falls from the sky [[or the casino, or somebody's last will & testament, or a lump-sum pension or something else).

All the solutions have been offered up by blue ribbon panels of experts. The solutions are known to all and amount to pretty much the same things:

1. Do everything possible to collect ALL revenue due and collect it fast.
2. Stop spending money you know you won't have.
3. Provide the services that people [[and businesses) need, provide them well and as inexpensively as possible.

Detroit's problem is not JUST a financial problem, nor is it JUST a management problem. It is both. And one will not be fixed without the other. The crew that comes to fix the roof needs money to buy the materials. And the materials won't be used without workers there to use them. And the work won't get done well or most efficiently without the proper management on site. Management needs workers, workers need tools and tools cost money and we don't have enough money to buy the tools we need.

If free [[or at least very inexpensive) money had been a part of a legal consent agreement that still included a financial advisory board, Detroit would be well on its way to solving its problems just like New York City in the 1970's. Again, I say, this mayor and five members of the City Council blew it BIG TIME!!! [[AND ANY GOVERNOR WHO OFFERS A CONSENT AGREEMENT THAT INCLUDES NO FREE MONEY IS PANDERING TO HIS REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE CONSTITUENCY WHO SAY NO MONEY TO DETROIT FOR ANY REASON AND ALSO BLEW IT BIG TIME!)

No earth-shattering solutions from this poster. Its all been said. Its just time to start DOING.

**313WX** · June-24-12, 10:17 AM

Also, per the

Michigan Citizen, there is precedent for Corporation Counsel's filing of her lawsuit.

http://michigancitizen.com/judges-de...r-p11317-1.htm

[quote]Mitchell also cites a 2008 case when Corporation Counsel filed a lawsuit in Wayne County without the consent of the mayor.[/quote]

**SWMAP** · June-24-12, 10:55 AM

1.: Wayne County Circuit Court is at the bottom of courts that would be cited in precedent briefs. Go up a few notches for greater precedent weight.
2.: the MC article doesn't say who was the Corpoation Counsel in the 2008 filing or even what happened to it. Was the filer the disgraced Johnson himself or perhaps that Valerie babe who Signed the KK agreement & said she didn't know what/why the issue had come up? Great legal mind there?
3. Henning says she didn't do anything unethical iho. But he doesn't say in the article that it was great lawyering or advisable.
4. The MC is a fear- mongering, reader inciting rag. It is often illiterate-sounding. I read it to see how outrageous the reporting is.

**townonenorth** · June-24-12, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Also, per the

Michigan Citizen, there is precedent for Corporation Counsel's filing of her lawsuit.

http://michigancitizen.com/judges-de...r-p11317-1.htm

[quote]Mitchell also cites a 2008 case when Corporation Counsel filed a lawsuit in Wayne County without the consent of the mayor.[/quote]

I'll believe that 2008 case if they can come up with the case files. Otherwise they are just making shit up as they go along.

**Wesley Mouch** · June-24-12, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by mam2009

1) What allows you to believe so strongly that 'self-governance' can solve Detroit's financial and structural problems -- when it was the method that got us here -- and has so far failed to stop the financial bleeding.

At the risk of sounding flip and simplistic -- self-governance is THE way of governing in the United States. Do you know of any other states in THIS country whose cities' day to day operations are presided over entirely by non-elected [[and/or non-resident) officials or by their state? Hell, even the president of the PTA is elected by the other parents in the school, not the principal! And the group makes decisions by majority consensus!

Although, there have been many counter-productive kick-the-can political decisions made on the local, state and federal levels by pandering politicians, politicians pander everywhere -- New York, Chicago, San Diego, Providence, Troy, Warren, Grand Rapids, Petoskey... Detroit's biggest fiscal problems are not unique to Detroit. Population loss [[which began in the 1950's, by the way) and its root sociological causes have just exacerbated our problem more quickly than other large cities. Population loss means less taxes/revenue. Less revenue means delays in technology investments and other process improvements that could reduce the need for a larger workforce, etc. Having a large workforce in this country has meant paying health care benefits and pensions to those employees. And since paying those people who've had health care [[whose costs continue to rise exponentially) and paying those pensions [[for folks who now live longer due to that excellent health care)eats even more into scarce revenue, we stay in the dark ages and since nobody wants to live in the dark ages, the cycle continues.

2) What do you think Detroit does to achieve financial stability?

Whatever Detroit does will not work without a large sum of free money. It takes money to save money. Ideally, you replace your whole roof before it caves in on you because it'll cost more to fix all the damage to your other belongings in addition to the cost of replacing the roof. A roof is not cheap and for most of us [[I'm assuming), you don't just have that kind of money sitting around in the bank. So either you patch it up little by little [[which ultimately costs more in the long-run), you borrow or you get lucky and a bag of free money falls from the sky [[or the casino, or somebody's last will & testament, or a lump-sum pension or something else).

All the solutions have been offered up by blue ribbon panels of experts. The solutions are known to all and amount to pretty much the same things:

1. Do everything possible to collect ALL revenue due and collect it fast.
2. Stop spending money you know you won't have.
3. Provide the services that people [[and businesses) need, provide them well and as inexpensively as possible.

Detroit's problem is not JUST a financial problem, nor is it JUST a management problem. It is both. And one will not be fixed without the other. The crew that comes to fix the roof needs money to buy the materials. And the materials won't be used without workers there to use them. And the work won't get done well or most efficiently without the proper management on site. Management needs workers, workers need tools and tools cost money and we don't have enough money to buy the tools we need.

If free [[or at least very inexpensive) money had been a part of a legal consent agreement that still included a financial advisory board, Detroit would be well on its way to solving its problems just like New York City in the 1970's. Again, I say, this mayor and five members of the City Council blew it BIG TIME!!! [[AND ANY GOVERNOR WHO OFFERS A CONSENT AGREEMENT THAT INCLUDES NO FREE MONEY IS PANDERING TO HIS REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE CONSTITUENCY WHO SAY NO MONEY TO DETROIT FOR ANY REASON AND ALSO BLEW IT BIG TIME!)

No earth-shattering solutions from this poster. Its all been said. Its just time to start DOING.

Thanks for the reply. Keeps the mind sharp to hear an insightful post -- even if you disagree with much of it.

I agree that the problem is both financial and management.

You are right that the problems of Detroit are not unique to Detroit. The problems are broad and really should be tackled across the board. We are the canaries.

But that doesn't resolve local officials or the voters who elected them from responsibility for their actions. Placing blame for Detroit's situation solely on demographic and actuarial trends is the opposite, but equally wrong answer to blaming only the city for its problems. Like most things, life isn't simple. And Detroit's problems are both the product of its own failings AND the result of trends beyond its borders.

We most certainly disagree on money. I agree that cash infusion should be part of the solution -- but without real structural changes to the way we manage our civic life -- its not going to work. The only real solution is to truly socialize our city -- and eliminate Detroit [[and Birmingham) as separate municipalities. Yes, I know this can't be done. I know the reasons. Leaders find ways to get to the right results. And the right result is that all Michigan residents need to support all Michigan residents. Infighting about who is in power is irrelevant. Good civic management is important. Not whose Union happens to represent the workers today. Not whether whites or blacks have more power in Detroit. That's all boring. Everyone needs to look at Detroit [[and Hamtramck, and Ecorse, and soon Warren and Ionia) and rethink how we deliver civic services to the public.

Only if we think radically, can we solve this very broad problem.

Where we part ways is in the details. We don't live in a 'mob rule' democracy -- where each and every decision is made by the voters. We elect representatives. And they made decisions for