Home Invasion in Harper Woods

[bailey]

I have been reading about these types of stories happening in Harper Woods for the past 5 or 6 years. I took a drive through the HW around Easter and it looked well-kept. It didn't seem ghetto or slummed at all. Just how bad is HW getting? How will this level of crime affect GP and other nearby cities?

How does HW's slide affect GP? Well, you can, for starters look at the the effect HW's decline has had on the GP schools [[part of HW is part of GP Schools). GP North and it's feeder Middle and elementary schools have declined substantially. GP South, however, [[where HW can not go) is the #1 Public/non magnet school in the state. That is a pretty amazing difference for two schools with the same resources in the same district.

When anyone talks about forcing schools of choice on any district, all one has to do is look at what happened to GP North when a suburban district gets overrun by DPS refugees.

Again, it's not their fault, they've been cheated by DPS. The solution is to fix DPS though...not make massive remedial education someone else's problem.

[313WX]

BrushStart
I agree its their problem but If you don't mind...could you please define or list some of these changes you refer to that will "fix" or "remedy" the problem [[increase in crime) the inner Burbs are experiencing? IMHO, I think there is some truth to the direct correlation of the rise in crime and the influx of Ex-Detroit residents into the area. Its true the Burbs were initially populated by those who took flight from Detroit proper adding to the original population of farmers and city outliers. But when the majority of the white flight was over, the only folks left to move into the inner ring Burbs from Detroit were a percentage of the 88% AA population, am I wrong or misguided in my thinking?

You're right.

Here's the problem though.

While the ex-Dtroiters flee Detroit for the inner ring suburbs, the folks who previously fled to the inner ring suburbs, who were likely wealthier than the folks replacing them, have moved to an outer ring of suburbs [[now, its Auburn Hills, Lake Orion, Shelby Township, Lyon Township, etc.). Now that leaves thos communities they fled poorer, and its hard for them to provide the same services they provided to them to the ex-Detroiters moving in. Thus, the aforementioned cycle repeats.

And that was the point I think. Simply moving to 47 mile road and declaring M-59 the new 8 mile is an idiotic way to resolve the problems Detroit has, especially when you're only shifting the same number of chairs around. The problem is, like now, we've built infrastructure for a population of more like 8 million people yet we've only had 4 million people, who have grown poorer since the auto industry collapse. Between that and the growing cost of maintaining infrastruture, it's going to get quite expensive for evevryone to maintain the lifestyle we've developed her [[psychologically and financially), where as instead of promoting smart growth and holding our grounds while attacking the social ills we face, we run from them and try to dump that responsibility on thoes left behind.

I don't have a solution, but we can't expect to keep doing the same thing over and over again then complain when we don't get different results, that's for sure.

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

This all started because of the mortgage crisis. Cities like Harper Woods, Redford, Livonia, Southfield, etc used to be too expensive to rent for poor Detroit residents. With cheap foreclosures, lower housing prices, the rents in these cities got way cheaper. Poor, uneducated people from Detroit moved out into these suburbs and now brought their problems to these cities. With multiple generations of high school drop outs who can't read and are never going to be able to read, what do you do about these people? It is going to create a second wave of white flight out of the first ring suburbs, as the shootings start at the schools. There just is no easy answer. Maybe when a young man goes to prison, don't let him out until he learns to read at a required reading level. Until then, more police, tougher sentences and more prisons.

[Patrick]

How does HW's slide affect GP? Well, you can, for starters look at the the effect HW's decline has had on the GP schools [[part of HW is part of GP Schools). GP North and it's feeder Middle and elementary schools have declined substantially. GP South, however, [[where HW can not go) is the #1 Public/non magnet school in the state. That is a pretty amazing difference for two schools with the same resources in the same district.

When anyone talks about forcing schools of choice on any district, all one has to do is look at what happened to GP North when a suburban district gets overrun by DPS refugees.

Again, it's not their fault, they've been cheated by DPS. The solution is to fix DPS though...not make massive remedial education someone else's problem.

Has Grosse Pointe North's rep been downgraded that much? Is it that bad?

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

People moving and population shifting from any location to any new location for any amount of distance in either direction results from many factors... e.g economics, quality school, safety, quality of life, retirement, personal choice, etc but I believe it is the responsibility of current resident regardless of where they live to be good stewards of their own environment and from a leadership stand point [[elected officials and public safety) be responsible to the tax base. To say its the fault of a previous population who left is to ignore the real problem and never address it.

BTW, I loved the Grosse Pte South H.S & Grosse Pte North H.S analogy, it is a pure sad fact what happen to that school, no doubt many residents who could afford it have now chosen to put their kids in private schools vs adapting to a lowered bar.

[TKshreve]

BrushStart
I agree its their problem but If you don't mind...could you please define or list some of these changes you refer to that will "fix" or "remedy" the problem [[increase in crime) the inner Burbs are experiencing?

Someone said "let's be real" earlier in the thread and I thought I would offer up some of that.

I'll start on a national scale. The country [[and capitalism) robbed our state of a a ton of manufacturing. It pushed a lot of people into poverty, and they didn't have many other options. Personally, this is where the rubber meets the road imo. We can do all we want regionally, but until our country makes a concerted effort to bring those jobs back, we'll continue to spin our wheels. The unfortunate part remains, most of this control is outside of our hands. Out monetarily elected officials are the ones to handle this situation.

Moving down to a regional scope, I think a few things stand out. First, people need to stop having babies who can not afford them. More so, our gov't needs to stop rewarding those who do. You can't continue to grow the population, but shrink the job base. Ont op of that, it strains our resources. More and more kids are growing up in homes without fathers, or without mothers who try to make their children care about society and contributing. And the cycle becomes more rapid every generation. These children who have no want for an education of any means [[nor is the one offered of any prestigious value) are obviously steered towards the easiest form of getting by; Crime.

If we could reappoint these "children of misfortune" into a society where they could find benefit in education and be given the ability to develop morals and ethic it would do two very important things. It would create disincentive for people to keep kicking out children, and it would also give those children a chance at being someone productive in society.

But that is very aggressive, and trying to pass a law that allowed the government to start taking children away from their mothers on a grander scale would be hard pressed to find its way through the courts.

On another side note, if we could somehow guarantee that all money allocated by the city, state and Fed makes its way to its appointed purpose [[and not past a gauntlet of greedy nets) it would go a long way to aiding those it was designed to aid. It just seems like anybody we put into the position of watchdog seems to give in to the greed. Way too much backscratching and backroom deals.

[Shollin]

I used to live in Harper Woods before moving to Sterling Heights last year. I lived on Roscommon which is the next block near Beaconsfield. I left because of the break ins, robberies, carjackings, and shooting. Hell a 12 year old carjacked someone in Harper Woods. It all started when Detroiters started moving in. They had a gang shooting inside the mall. I bought my house in 1993 and sold it in 2010 for less than what I paid for it. Sold it to an investor who is likely turning it into a section 8 rental. I waited way too long. I should've seen the writing on the wall when the city wanted to close off the streets to help prevent crime. Harper Woods has a great police force and a city government that tries very hard to maintain a nice city but they're fighting a losing battle.

What I don't understand about the north vs south school thing, why does it matter? Just because the kids from Harper Woods are not doing well, doesn't mean the quality of education has decreased.

[Dave70]

There was a gun fired in the highschool earlier this year too... The Detroit that borders HW has turned ghetto and now the disease is spreading. Back in the early 90s or so that area of Detroit had just begun its decline, but was still ok. Kelly road was free of bars on the windows of homes and the shopping area was quite a bit nicer!

[Shollin]

There was a gun fired in the highschool earlier this year too... The Detroit that borders HW has turned ghetto and now the disease is spreading. Back in the early 90s or so that area of Detroit had just begun its decline, but was still ok. Kelly road was free of bars on the windows of homes and the shopping area was quite a bit nicer!

That part of Detroit was just as nice as Harper Woods. It's right near East English Village and the St Johns area was nice. The only reason I bought in Harper Woods was the better services. It wasn't in decline in the 90's. In the 90's there was still a law that required city workers to live in the city so that part of Detroit was filled with cops and city workers. Property values were climbing up through the late 90's. Its decline started in the early 2000's and dropped fast.

[jtf1972]

Hmmm... I just had a thought!

I know some on this board are staunchly against any sort of comprehensive public transit system in the city, feeling that the best transit system in the world is the highway system that we currently have. Some would even say that the solution to any transportation problems is to widen what we have & build more.

Well, the highway system we have greatly influenced... and influences the regional migration that we have seen over the past 50 years. The Somerset thieves also more than likely used one of these highways to jump in a vehicle and drive to their target crime scene.

So with that said, in order to protect the suburbs we need to build a comprehensive transit system in the city and convert the highways to something that may ebb the regional migration!

[brizee]

hmmm... I just had a thought!

I know some on this board are staunchly against any sort of comprehensive public transit system in the city, feeling that the best transit system in the world is the highway system that we currently have. Some would even say that the solution to any transportation problems is to widen what we have & build more.

Well, the highway system we have greatly influenced... And influences the regional migration that we have seen over the past 50 years. The somerset thieves also more than likely used one of these highways to jump in a vehicle and drive to their target crime scene.

So with that said, in order to protect the suburbs we need to build a comprehensive transit system in the city and convert the highways to something that may ebb the regional migration!

oh shit!

What have you done!?!?

You just divided by zer..............

[cmubryan]

This all started because of the mortgage crisis. Cities like Harper Woods, Redford, Livonia, Southfield, etc used to be too expensive to rent for poor Detroit residents. With cheap foreclosures, lower housing prices, the rents in these cities got way cheaper. Poor, uneducated people from Detroit moved out into these suburbs and now brought their problems to these cities. With multiple generations of high school drop outs who can't read and are never going to be able to read, what do you do about these people? It is going to create a second wave of white flight out of the first ring suburbs, as the shootings start at the schools. There just is no easy answer. Maybe when a young man goes to prison, don't let him out until he learns to read at a required reading level. Until then, more police, tougher sentences and more prisons.

Inner ring suburbs have always been a place for Detroiters to move. Whether it was 1950 or now. The majority of inner ring suburbs that border Detroit attract most of their new residents the city of Detroit, with the exception of Grosse Pointe, Ferndale [[sometimes), and Dearborn. Now that the "Detroiters" that are leaving Detroit are of a different background, these inner ring suburbs are perceived to be turning dangerous and run down. This perception is turning a stereotype into reality and people start panicking and moving.

Look, my parents were burglarized in Southfield in 1981, long before the perception of today's Southfield existed.

[cramerro]

Question – how is Redford Township holding-up these days? I bought my first home near 6 mile/Beech Daly back in the late 90’s, and I really enjoyed living there. The neighborhood was nice, working class, relatively diverse, clean, never any problems -- we felt completely safe in that area. Is it still a nice area?

I've lived there for 8 years now. There are parts of town that are worse than others [[just like anyplace really), the last year or two there are more reports of crime in general, and more brazen criminals [[again, seems like that is happening in a lot of places).

I live in that same area west of Beech south of 6 Mile, and I couldn't ask for a nicer neighborhood. Even with some turnover in our neighbors as some of the older folks move on, everyone is friendly, respectful, and generally cares about taking care of thier stuff. Love being able to walk up to the small businesses in our 4 block commercial district on 6 Mile, something you wouldn't get in many of our neighboring towns.

[Dave70]

That part of Detroit was just as nice as Harper Woods.... It wasn't in decline in the 90's...

St. John's area was nicer and lasted longer than Kelly/Morang/Moross/94, which was slipping by then. Meaning the neighborhood was getting rougher..

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

Originally Posted by jtf1972
"So with that said, in order to protect the suburbs we need to build a comprehensive transit system in the city and convert the highways to something that may ebb the regional migration!"

Really, your kidding right...protect the suburbs from whom??? So let me get this straight you want to build a comprehensive transit hamster tube in the city to keep people on a continuous loop inside of 8 mile so they wont migrate to the Burbs and then fill in the freeways and maybe plant some trees. Pass the Kool aid Holmes, well at least it was an entertaining post.

[Goose]

I suppose your logic is that the City of Detroit is the causation for the poor slum people invading Oakland County, and that after they destroy Harper Woods, they will go and put St. Claire Shores into decline. .

Southlake high school in SCS is gone... they are in the bottom 5% of schools in the State and have been placed on double secret probation.... SCS is already on the downfall.... Grosse Pointe is declining also.... GPN is becoming a gang cesspool with low test scores and rampant drug problems.....

[jtf1972]

Really, your kidding right...Pass the Kool aid Holmes, well at least it was an entertaining post.

[[Shhhh! If we convince suburbanites it's for their own good they may approve something that will actually help the city!)

Divide by Zero...

[Wheels]

double secret probation....

What????????

[Gannon]

What????????

You apparently didn't see Animal House...

[Wheels]

You apparently didn't see Animal House...

Got me snoozin!

[AGinthe313]

I've lived there for 8 years now. There are parts of town that are worse than others [[just like anyplace really), the last year or two there are more reports of crime in general, and more brazen criminals [[again, seems like that is happening in a lot of places).

I live in that same area west of Beech south of 6 Mile, and I couldn't ask for a nicer neighborhood. Even with some turnover in our neighbors as some of the older folks move on, everyone is friendly, respectful, and generally cares about taking care of thier stuff. Love being able to walk up to the small businesses in our 4 block commercial district on 6 Mile, something you wouldn't get in many of our neighboring towns.

Thanks for the update – it’s good to hear that area is still doing well. I was on the opposite side of you -- North of 6-mile, East of Beech [[Olympia Street).

[cramerro]

Thanks for the update – it’s good to hear that area is still doing well. I was on the opposite side of you -- North of 6-mile, East of Beech [[Olympia Street).

I drive through that area often to go to baseball games at Claude Allison. Which leads me to the only complaint, which is that there has been quite a bit of stuff going on in that park... strange given there is a fire station staffed 24/7 attached to it, but its such a big area there are a lot of places to stay out of view.

The Township recently got a grant and installed some cameras, hopefully that will help because some people are afraid to take thier kids there during 'off' times.

[mikefmich]

Call Officer Maier out of retirement.