Home Invasion in Harper Woods

[Gannon]

I certainly hope this doesn't become a fad or trend. Didn't need to read this while 1,200 miles away from home.


http://www.freep.com/article/2012060...text|FRONTPAGE


I simply cannot imagine what this experience was like...and why this particular house was chosen to be invaded.


Yuck.

[jtf1972]

"...

a few blocks from the city’s border with Detroit."

The news in this region continues to do this. What pisses me off is it is a blatant, yet subtle way of blaming Detroit for the crime.

Funny that I have never read a story of a crime in Detroit that included the proximity of the crime to a suburb, or of a crime in a suburb that listed the proximity to another suburb.

This crime is also near Grosse Pointe Woods, and not far from Eastland Mall & the city of Eastpointe. No mention of those, which if the intent was to give the reader an idea of where this crime occurred would have been much more descriptive.

The reason for including Detroit was to blame Detroit.

The worse that I read was a story about something that happened in either Warren or Centerline, and it was said to be "close" to Detroit. It was a mile and a half away! I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same author.

We have enough problems and enough crime in the city itself. We don't need reporters piling those that occur elsewhere on us too.

[brizee]

"...

a few blocks from the city’s border with Detroit."

The news in this region continues to do this. What pisses me off is it is a blatant, yet subtle way of blaming Detroit for the crime.

Funny that I have never read a story of a crime in Detroit that included the proximity of the crime to a suburb, or of a crime in a suburb that listed the proximity to another suburb.

This crime is also near Grosse Pointe Woods, and not far from Eastland Mall & the city of Eastpointe. No mention of those, which if the intent was to give the reader an idea of where this crime occurred would have been much more descriptive.

The reason for including Detroit was to blame Detroit.

The worse that I read was a story about something that happened in either Warren or Centerline, and it was said to be "close" to Detroit. It was a mile and a half away! I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same author.

We have enough problems and enough crime in the city itself. We don't need reporters piling those that occur elsewhere on us too.

Troy, Mich. - A couple says they were robbed at gunpoint in the middle of the day. But this didn't happen on the streets of Detroit. It went down at the Somerset Collection, the upscale shopping destination in Troy.

This was my recent favorite: Why did the writer feel the need to namedrop a city thirty miles away before actually naming where the robbery took place?

But call out the media around here for the dogshit it is and people get their drawers in a twist.

[DetroitPlanner]

Troy, Mich. - A couple says they were robbed at gunpoint in the middle of the day. But this didn't happen on the streets of Detroit. It went down at the Somerset Collection, the upscale shopping destination in Troy.

This was my recent favorite: Why did the writer feel the need to namedrop a city thirty miles away before actually naming where the robbery took place?

But call out the media around here for the dogshit it is and people get their drawers in a twist.

Not to split hairs, but Detroit is not 30 miles from Troy. Don't blame the media for being fabricators before you check your facts.

[brizee]

Not to split hairs, but Detroit is not 30 miles from Troy. Don't blame the media for being fabricators before you check your facts.

This is the shit I'm talking about.
Rather than respond to the point of the post, you'd rather defend the indefensible and try to lob some pointless barb.

Ok it's not 30 miles. Google says it is 20.9 miles from my job to Somerset Mall. Does that in ANY way change how despicable these writers are in trying to use Detroit to conjure up unsavory images in their readership?

[bailey]

This is the shit I'm talking about.
Rather than respond to the point of the post, you'd rather defend the indefensible and try to lob some pointless barb.

Ok it's not 30 miles. Google says it is 20.9 miles from my job to Somerset Mall. Does that in ANY way change how despicable these writers are in trying to use Detroit to conjure up unsavory images in their readership?

Wow.. hyperbole much? its at 16 mile road. 16-8= 8. I mean talk about pointless barbs.

It was said because an armed robbery in daylight at this 4.5 million resident region's ONLY high end shopping mall is a "headline". Wasn't that the point of the statement... to put the crime in context? In one place its a headline, in the other it's barely news.

I'd imagine if Detroit were a real city with a downtown that had an actual functioning retail district...high end or otherwise.... and similar crime occurred, the headline would be about how it happened there... and not in a sketchier area of the city.

Is it lazy? sure.. but "despicable" attempt to "conjure unsavory images" ...c'mon.

[DetroitPlanner]

This is the shit I'm talking about.
Rather than respond to the point of the post, you'd rather defend the indefensible and try to lob some pointless barb.

Ok it's not 30 miles. Google says it is 20.9 miles from my job to Somerset Mall. Does that in ANY way change how despicable these writers are in trying to use Detroit to conjure up unsavory images in their readership?

What is it? Less than 8 miles to M-102? Detroit is a lot bigger than the area around your job. The point I am trying to make is people see things very differently. Some people look at things from 50,000 feet, others don't have the same persepective.

[Bham1982]

"...

The reason for including Detroit was to blame Detroit.

But, at least in the case of Harper Woods [[and certain other inner ring suburbs), the reason that Harper Woods is a near-slum is precisely because of proximity to Detroit.

If you look at who commits crime in Harper Woods, it's almost all Detroiters or former Detroiters. The problems in Harper Woods are because of newcomers from Detroit.

In short, the relative level of inner suburban decline is almost directly proportional to the relative level of Detroiter influx.

Now, granted, this isn't the fault of Detroiters as a whole. But there is a specific demographic of ghetto folks in Detroit who, when they move into another jurisdiction, tend to bring the new jurisdiction down to their level.

[cramerro]

But, at least in the case of Harper Woods [[and certain other inner ring suburbs), the reason that Harper Woods is a near-slum is precisely because of proximity to Detroit.

If you look at who commits crime in Harper Woods, it's almost all Detroiters or former Detroiters. The problems in Harper Woods are because of newcomers from Detroit.

In short, the relative level of inner suburban decline is almost directly proportional to the relative level of Detroiter influx.

Now, granted, this isn't the fault of Detroiters as a whole. But there is a specific demographic of ghetto folks in Detroit who, when they move into another jurisdiction, tend to bring the new jurisdiction down to their level.[/LEFT]

I agree with both sides here. First, you don't want to encourage the media and therefore all who read it to make statements or insinuations that any crime must be committed by a Detroiter. On the other hand, on the other side of town [[Redford), there has been an uptick in crime in the last few years and it seems that often it is committed by a Detroiter. Case-in-point, we had our first triple homicide in 30[[?) years, and it ended up being a Detroit man from the Detroit neighborhood that the victims had recently moved from who had come over and killed them over drugs or money.

Media must not fan the flames of the fire with unsubstantiated claims and bias, but at the same time you cannot turn a blind eye to real trends in areas neighboring [[and of course areas in!) the City.

[BrushStart]

But, at least in the case of Harper Woods [[and certain other inner ring suburbs), the reason that Harper Woods is a near-slum is precisely because of proximity to Detroit.

If you look at who commits crime in Harper Woods, it's almost all Detroiters or former Detroiters. The problems in Harper Woods are because of newcomers from Detroit.

In short, the relative level of inner suburban decline is almost directly proportional to the relative level of Detroiter influx.

Now, granted, this isn't the fault of Detroiters as a whole. But there is a specific demographic of ghetto folks in Detroit who, when they move into another jurisdiction, tend to bring the new jurisdiction down to their level.[/LEFT]

Is it just me, or is your prejudice growing with time?

The majority of the people who live in this region were "former Detroiters" at one time. The reason Harper Woods is becoming a "near slum" is because it is failing as a municipality. Right next door, the Grosse Pointes are the definition of anti-slum.

The amount of BS you spew on this board is unmeasurable. So much so, that you provoke the majority of my posts. I don't even know how to respond to your theory about the "Detroiter influx" effect. When people left Detroit to populate your beloved Oakland County, you rode that horse all the way calling it progress. Now, you have suggested that Harper Woods is in decline because of the Detroiter influx. Listen up, kid, Harper Woods doesn't exist without a "Detroiter influx" and neither does the vast majority of present-day Oakland County. If Detroiters bring other jurisdictions to their level, then you should find most of Oakland County unappealing seeing as it was created predominately by former Detroiters. Nobody appreciates the "ghetto mentality" that is pervasive in both Detroit and its suburbs, but what happens in the 'burbs, the 'burbs must own. It's just as much their problem as it is Detroit's, and the sooner they get off their F'ing high horse and start giving a shit, the sooner we can make some necessary changes.

[Bham1982]

Is it just me, or is your prejudice growing with time?

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

[corktownyuppie]

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

I'm inclined agree with Bham. In an attempt to not judge the innocent as guilty, we're also failing to point the blame where it belongs.

I've been a Detroiter for almost all my life. The problems facing these inner ring suburbs are the same problems that we've faced, too. They are not coming from poor municipal management. They are not coming from poor decision-making in Lansing. [[Though, admittedly, decision making in Lansing has not exactly helped our cause, either.)

It comes from an element in our society that is more destructive than constructive. Many of them are young, black, males. Some of them aren't. Almost all of them are poor. Few aren't.

Now it's silly to blame Detroit for this problem, just as it's silly to blame Qatar for something an Egyptian national did while in Syria. But it's also silly for everyone -- including Detroiters -- to say, "Well, it's not my fault."

Let's be real. Most of these problems are coming out of Detroit. Let's also say that most of these problems aren't the "fault" of "Detroiters". And lastly, let's quit pointing finger about whose fault it is and start working on how we can put a dent in this problem going forward.

[antongast]

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

I think the causation, broadly speaking, runs the other way. An influx of poorer residents is more a symptom of decline than a primary cause. If the place weren't declining to begin with, poorer people would largely be priced out.

[BrushStart]

I don't care if you think I'm prejudicial.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between inner-suburban decline and inmigration by ghetto folks from Detroit. If you think this isn't the case, then be my guest.

Can you think of an inner suburb receiving poor Detroiters from the slums and not declining? Are you suggesting that's it's simply correlation and not [[at least partial) causation?

The causation is far removed from the geographical boundaries of Detroit. In fact, it's even far removed from Metro Detroit. Most of the people we are talking about here are the descendants of poor migrants who came from the south. Before that, they were slaves, and before that, they were living on a different continent.

I suppose your logic is that the City of Detroit is the causation for the poor slum people invading Oakland County, and that after they destroy Harper Woods, they will go and put St. Claire Shores into decline. The reality is, the scope of the problem is far greater and goes back much farther than anyone cares to admit. So, I personally don't give a shit about the imaginary border between Detroit and Harper Woods or any of the other suburbs. Clearly, you are too myopic to make the distinction, but the 'burbs need to realize that they are not living in a bubble immune from the great problems affecting the region.

People are either going to admit the truth, which is that Metro Detroit needs a comprehensive, multi-faceted plan to deal with its decline, or slowly but surely, the entire region is going to turn into a slum- and it has very little to do with geography and city borders. So, while I say that Harper Woods must own what happens in Harper Woods, we must all own what happens in this region and even beyond it if anything is ever going to change.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

It's just as much their problem as it is Detroit's, and the sooner they get off their F'ing high horse and start giving a shit, the sooner we can make some necessary changes.

BrushStart
I agree its their problem but If you don't mind...could you please define or list some of these changes you refer to that will "fix" or "remedy" the problem [[increase in crime) the inner Burbs are experiencing? IMHO, I think there is some truth to the direct correlation of the rise in crime and the influx of Ex-Detroit residents into the area. Its true the Burbs were initially populated by those who took flight from Detroit proper adding to the original population of farmers and city outliers. But when the majority of the white flight was over, the only folks left to move into the inner ring Burbs from Detroit were a percentage of the 88% AA population, am I wrong or misguided in my thinking?

[TKshreve]

BrushStart
I agree its their problem but If you don't mind...could you please define or list some of these changes you refer to that will "fix" or "remedy" the problem [[increase in crime) the inner Burbs are experiencing?

Someone said "let's be real" earlier in the thread and I thought I would offer up some of that.

I'll start on a national scale. The country [[and capitalism) robbed our state of a a ton of manufacturing. It pushed a lot of people into poverty, and they didn't have many other options. Personally, this is where the rubber meets the road imo. We can do all we want regionally, but until our country makes a concerted effort to bring those jobs back, we'll continue to spin our wheels. The unfortunate part remains, most of this control is outside of our hands. Out monetarily elected officials are the ones to handle this situation.

Moving down to a regional scope, I think a few things stand out. First, people need to stop having babies who can not afford them. More so, our gov't needs to stop rewarding those who do. You can't continue to grow the population, but shrink the job base. Ont op of that, it strains our resources. More and more kids are growing up in homes without fathers, or without mothers who try to make their children care about society and contributing. And the cycle becomes more rapid every generation. These children who have no want for an education of any means [[nor is the one offered of any prestigious value) are obviously steered towards the easiest form of getting by; Crime.

If we could reappoint these "children of misfortune" into a society where they could find benefit in education and be given the ability to develop morals and ethic it would do two very important things. It would create disincentive for people to keep kicking out children, and it would also give those children a chance at being someone productive in society.

But that is very aggressive, and trying to pass a law that allowed the government to start taking children away from their mothers on a grander scale would be hard pressed to find its way through the courts.

On another side note, if we could somehow guarantee that all money allocated by the city, state and Fed makes its way to its appointed purpose [[and not past a gauntlet of greedy nets) it would go a long way to aiding those it was designed to aid. It just seems like anybody we put into the position of watchdog seems to give in to the greed. Way too much backscratching and backroom deals.

[Goose]

something fishy, they knew there was something in the house of value, [[drugs?) or wanted to send a message... thats not an area where random houses are invaded by force.. most homes in the area you aren't going to find piles of money or jewelry that it would be worth the risk and the time of actually using a sledgehammer to break into the house while people were there.....

[Meddle]

Where's the National Guard? Where's the tanks?

[SWMAP]

The Somerset armed robbery suspect arrested in an 18-year-old Detroit resident:

http://troy.patch.com/articles/troy-...obbery-suspect

So Detroit is in the picture. Detroit is a crime nexus.

[rjk]

Is it just me, or is your prejudice growing with time?

The majority of the people who live in this region were "former Detroiters" at one time. The reason Harper Woods is becoming a "near slum" is because it is failing as a municipality. Right next door, the Grosse Pointes are the definition of anti-slum.

The difference in income levels between HW and the Pointes is quite stark. HW has a per capita income of almost $25,000 while GPW is around $39,000.

The cities in question weren't on equal footing decades ago. One has obviously become a lot easier for poorer people to buy or rent a house.

[jtf1972]

There is a reason I have a couple people here on my ignore list.

Labeling any crime or decline in the suburbs to its relationship to Detroit is just as fruitful as labeling any crime or decline in Detroit to the exodus of the financial base from the city to the suburbs. Nobody wins in the argument. It's a stalemate because there are valid points to each side, but nobody listens to opposing views.

So ok, blame the city for everything... but what do we do about it? Move farther? Yeah, that seems to work out well in solving our problems.

You are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem.

[Patrick]

I have been reading about these types of stories happening in Harper Woods for the past 5 or 6 years. I took a drive through the HW around Easter and it looked well-kept. It didn't seem ghetto or slummed at all. Just how bad is HW getting? How will this level of crime affect GP and other nearby cities?

[bailey]

I have been reading about these types of stories happening in Harper Woods for the past 5 or 6 years. I took a drive through the HW around Easter and it looked well-kept. It didn't seem ghetto or slummed at all. Just how bad is HW getting? How will this level of crime affect GP and other nearby cities?

How does HW's slide affect GP? Well, you can, for starters look at the the effect HW's decline has had on the GP schools [[part of HW is part of GP Schools). GP North and it's feeder Middle and elementary schools have declined substantially. GP South, however, [[where HW can not go) is the #1 Public/non magnet school in the state. That is a pretty amazing difference for two schools with the same resources in the same district.

When anyone talks about forcing schools of choice on any district, all one has to do is look at what happened to GP North when a suburban district gets overrun by DPS refugees.

Again, it's not their fault, they've been cheated by DPS. The solution is to fix DPS though...not make massive remedial education someone else's problem.

[Patrick]

How does HW's slide affect GP? Well, you can, for starters look at the the effect HW's decline has had on the GP schools [[part of HW is part of GP Schools). GP North and it's feeder Middle and elementary schools have declined substantially. GP South, however, [[where HW can not go) is the #1 Public/non magnet school in the state. That is a pretty amazing difference for two schools with the same resources in the same district.

When anyone talks about forcing schools of choice on any district, all one has to do is look at what happened to GP North when a suburban district gets overrun by DPS refugees.

Again, it's not their fault, they've been cheated by DPS. The solution is to fix DPS though...not make massive remedial education someone else's problem.

Has Grosse Pointe North's rep been downgraded that much? Is it that bad?

[313WX]

I have been reading about these types of stories happening in Harper Woods for the past 5 or 6 years. I took a drive through the HW around Easter and it looked well-kept. It didn't seem ghetto or slummed at all. Just how bad is HW getting? How will this level of crime affect GP and other nearby cities?

The first two signs that a neighborhood is going downhill are when renters make up majority of the residents and the nearby commercial districts are in decline [[made up of nothing but liquor stores, dollar stores hair/nail salons, cell phone stores and beauty supply stores). The homes and commercial structures don't neccssarily have to look dilapitated immediatetly when those two signs are noted.

About 10-20 years ago, the areas just south and west of Harper Woods, in Detroit were the way way you described.