City Council to Ask Mayor Bing to Remove New Apple Orchards from Palmer Park!

**Meddle** · May-31-12, 05:13 PM

^^ See post #54 above.

**MSUguy** · May-31-12, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Does anyone have pictures of the area before and now?

Is there a reason this spot was selected instead of any of the other vacant land around town, or maybe even the State Fair site?

You can see the before in streeview. The plantings are in the grassy areas in both sides of Ponchartrain. PFPP has photos of the trees being put in on it's facebook page

http://goo.gl/maps/UeNQ

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Peopl...3112688&type=3

**detroitsgwenivere** · May-31-12, 05:27 PM

Did PFPP give any specific reason as to why they chose to put the orchard where they did? That park is pretty big. It seems that the PFPP could've conceivably put this planting somewhere where it wouldn't adjace someone's home or neighborhood.

In the end, I'm betting the park will get to keep its orchard, but it will have to move. Seems like a fair negotiation to me.

And folks, be prepared for a lot more of this culture clash [[i post this like once a week it seems). More people than you think are not digging this whole, "im doing you a favor by setting up this goat farm /compost heap / skatepark /heidelburg2 next to your house" fad that's been the loudest narrative in the "remaking of Detroit" story as of late.

Well, besides the consent agreement anyway.

**Pam** · May-31-12, 05:49 PM

PFPP has photos of the trees being put in on it's facebook page

I only see an apartment building in the background. Where do the homeowners live who objected?

**Meddle** · May-31-12, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

on it's facebook page

I don't do gossip sites.

Maybe something on a legitimate website?

**SWMAP** · May-31-12, 06:18 PM

Channel 4 identifies the nearest homeowner as James Thrower, who is on lookup, the vice chair of the new DWS authority, having been appointed to that Board as a city appointee & rep. He owns several McDonald's franchises and is a hall of famer fir his university. He is from Texas.

**Gistok** · May-31-12, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I don't do gossip sites.

Maybe something on a legitimate website?

You are kidding, right?

How does a PICTURE equated to GOSSIP??

I checked out the images... didn't see any gossip... I suppose you don't accept blogger sites either... no more reliable than facebook or Wiki...

**MSUguy** · May-31-12, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

I only see an apartment building in the background. Where do the homeowners live who objected?

There are houses on the other side of those apartment buildings.

http://goo.gl/maps/mhy6

**thnk2mch** · May-31-12, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I don't do gossip sites.

Maybe something on a legitimate website?

Something more like an open forum?

**Meddle** · May-31-12, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

You are kidding, right?

Nope.

Fakebook = Gossip.

Not interested. I have the entire URL blocked in my firewall so I can't be led there by mistake.

**Jason** · May-31-12, 07:01 PM

Any legitimate and competent organization or business is going to have some kind of facebook presence.

And for a local community group it's perfect. Instead of hoping that someone comes across your website, you're automatically exposed to everyone in the community plus their social networks, which is basically perfect targeting.

**EastsideAl** · May-31-12, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Based on the absurd Apple Orchard logic... the Riverwalk reminds people of color of the slave ships disembarking at wharfside... as would any tall ship sailing up the Detroit River, which in and of itself could remind folks of the Mississippi... and lest we forget the Georgia Street project is a reminder of the toiling in the fields for people of color... sounds kind of silly doesn't it?

Whoa, whoa... people are missing the point here. First of all, you're taking words I used, in response to a post by SWMAP about cultural "sub-texts", and putting it in the mouths of the objecting Pontchartrain Dr. homeowners, who didn't say any of that and I'm sure are quite able to speak for themselves.

And, further, people are using my point to again dismiss those peoples' concerns as ignorant and trivial, and making silly, and rather offensive, comparisons to slave ships on the Detroit River along the way. All of which essentially stands my point on its head. Which is that as long as people keep dismissing the concerns of people who are 'others' to them as invalid, ignorant, and trivial, without even trying to understand their viewpoint - even when putting together and executing a project in their community - we will continue to have these kinds of confrontations and will continue to fail at communicating with one another in this region.

**SWMAP** · May-31-12, 07:19 PM

"their community?" It was a project put together by people in that very community. Whose community were you referring to.
And the prostors are not some little disenfranchised Black people. The complaining neighbor is a pretty big mockery - the City appointee to and vice chairman of the board of the Detroit Water Sewerage Dept. Another Johnny-come-lately complainer is Eric Sabree, Deputy Wayne County treasurer. I think it's the residents who developed the orchard plan who are being stepped on by the well-connected.

**EastsideAl** · May-31-12, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Channel 4 identifies the nearest homeowner as James Thrower, who is on lookup, the vice chair of the new DWS authority, having been appointed to that Board as a city appointee & rep. He owns several McDonald's franchises and is a hall of famer fir his university. He is from Texas.

He played for the Lions, ran community relations at, I believe, Ford, and is a personal friend of Dave Bing's. My mother has worked with him in the past. He is indeed a big wheel.

And this is another point. It's amazing to me that no one at PFPP seems to have talked to the people over there on Pontchartrain Dr. and Hamilton Rd., even as they were tearing up the park and planting an orchard near their homes. I find this stunning, and not very smart.

You may dismiss those people as being picky, overly entitled, full of themselves, standing in the way of 'progress,' etc. And you probably wouldn't be wrong. But every community has its VIPs and its movers and shakers, and that is where many of Detroit's live. You fail to engage with people like that at your peril, particularly if you're doing something in their community.

Many years ago when I did some work for the Friends of Belle Isle, we marked out addresses in Indian Village, the better Jefferson Ave. apartments, the Lafayette Park townhouses, and the Grosse Pointes for special appeals. We called many of those people up personally, and even offered to come over to their houses and discuss what we were trying to do. We made sure to stay in contact with business leaders as well, and the most important people in city government and the black community. Going to talk to the powerful, connected, and economically well-off people in the surrounding neighborhoods around the Golf Club and in Palmer Woods is the FIRST thing that should have been done. That's really just organization 101.

By not engaging with them, particularly when you're working in their neighborhood, you really increase the perception that you're disrespectful and have no regard for the city around you. This is one place where a little hand shaking, talking, and ego-stroking goes a long way. It's not only kind of dumb not to engage with those folks from the perspective of having them roadblock your projects, but also because they can be quite useful in helping you to get things done if you have them on your side. So, again, you may dismiss their privilege, but this is the way the world works folks. Being resentful or dismissive of powerful people, and failing to communicate with them, is sure to hurt your cause. You sure as hell won't get anywhere if you try to go to war with them, and you'll poison the waters completely if you call people out publicly as supporting prostitution and drug-dealing.

**SWMAP** · May-31-12, 07:41 PM

They are ALL in the neighborhood! The pro-orchard people are Palmer Woodsians, too!

**EastsideAl** · May-31-12, 07:57 PM

I'm just going by what it said on the PFPP Facebook page:

"The folks on Hamilton felt that they had not been informed - city council said PFPP should have gone door to door for the people living right next door. We agreed that in retrospect, we should have done extra special outreach to those folks."

It sure seems like they've walked into some internecine neighborhood conflict. But with people at that level this means you end up having the City Council down your backs. Again, a little outreach goes a long way with people who can wield real power. It certainly sounds naive not to have at least contacted the people whose houses were going to have trees go in near them.

**De'troiter** · May-31-12, 08:13 PM

I've just rode through there on my usual route home and I agree with the residents that this isn't a good spot. The idea is great but the location does not fit in with the neighborhood. The trees are placed in a spot where a fork in the road merges, and the trees are blocking the view of traffic already. I have seen many accidents in that curve over the years, and I can only see the number escalating with the trees. The trees also create a hideout for criminals that did not exist before their planting. I would like to see the Park keep the Orchard but not in the current location. I don't understand why they would plant along a main road in the first place....

**Gistok** · May-31-12, 09:37 PM

EastsideAl... my comments weren't geared towards you... but to a slippery slope made by someone else...

Occurrence · May-31-12, 11:23 PM

What kind of whackjob complains about apple trees being planted? Are you kidding me?

**jtf1972** · June-01-12, 12:38 AM

Trees.. and in a park of all places!

It would be nice if the residents that are opposed to the trees would actually join with an organization that is working to better their neighboring park and work towards its betterment together. They could then voice their opinions on the park while planning is occurring. Instead they waited until a lot of time and money will be wasted by a city that has a lot better things to do with its time and money.

Is People For Palmer Park a johnny-come-lately? Yes. That doesn't mean that they aren't a needed presence. It's a shame they don't have a 50+ year history, but you have got to start somewhere.

Let's work together, people. It's the ONLY way we can make this city stronger. We've bullshitted long enough and the results are not pretty.

Occurrence · June-01-12, 01:04 AM

I'm guessing those complaining about the apples trees are people who contributed nothing to the project to begin with.

Why didn't they get involved with the project and suggest they plant something different in the park they live by? Stupid lazy nutjobs just need something to complain about in their bland boring lives.

**ronaldj** · June-01-12, 04:02 AM

I remember being involved in the Fox Creek berm tree planting. One neighbor was pissed off that they might have to rake some leaves. That was a 10 yr investment involving grants, volunteers and community. Everyone was informed and anyone not in the loop was brain dead in my minds eye.

I welcome all who try to make a difference. Not every thing works out perfect but I certainly honor folk who pitch in.

Also curious how race got involved in this issue?

**Gannon** · June-01-12, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

I'm guessing those complaining about the apples trees are people who contributed nothing to the project to begin with.

Why didn't they get involved with the project and suggest they plant something different in the park they live by? Stupid lazy nutjobs just need something to complain about in their bland boring lives.

Didn't the one guy just buy the house?! The new guy with the Water and Sewer gig.

But learning that two 'placed' government individuals live on this street begs the question. Certainly the NFL background gave the one guy some cash and retirement income [[NFL's hush money), but where did the other one accumulate wealth enough to afford living in what another poster called the wealthiest area of town?

It is not unlike that one old client of mine who used to be one of Coleman's right-hand men...buying unit after unit of an entire FLOOR of the Lafayette Tower's river view...on a claimed $45k annual salary. Too fishy to not investigate.

Cheers!