Gunman fires into crowd in downtown detroit

[313WX]

From the Detroit News

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120529/METRO01/205290368/1409/metro/1-dead-2-injured-shooting-outside-Renaissance-Center

Detroit — A man who was upset because another man disrespected his girlfriend opened fire into a crowd Monday night, killing one man and wounding two others in the shadow of the Renaissance Center, just a few blocks from the Movement Electronic Music Festival, police said.

Really?

Detroit needs to get rid of knee-jerk idiots like them before it can have any chance at a true comeback.

[mikeg19]

Simple enough: Lock this city down and clean sweep it. National Guard on every corner of every block, patrolling Hummers with 50cals on top. Institute an 8pm curfew. It should look like the military presence in Baghdad at the height of the Iraq war.

[Wheels]

I find it disgusting to call this scumbag a man!

[corktownyuppie]

In light of stories i read coming out of Downtown I feel like its way more dangerous than we are led to believe. I realize Wiki is a flawed reference where anyone can type anything but the claim that "A 2006 study showed crime in downtown Detroit [[CBD) is much lower than national, state and metro averages" Not sure I buy it. Downtown may not be 48205 but safe? DPD can tell you whatever they want. It couldn't have been 5 years ago they were called out on under-reporting crime. This annual music festival puts a lot of people downtown 3 nights each summer. Good for restaurants, hotels. Probably amounts in the millions of dollars. Are there usually crowds of people hanging at 11pm on Monday nights at Atwater and Woodbridge? Even if it wasn't related to the festival it doesn't make much difference. A gunman still fired into a crowd injuring 2 and killing 1 downtown. Did I go to Movement? no. Would this story prevent me from going in the future? probably not. Would news like this prevent other people from attending in the future? perhaps.
I think DPD would lie to protect that sorce of revenue. It very well could have been entirely unrelated to the festival. It just seems unlikely and I'm not big on lies regarding public safety.

I dunno...I see what you're saying, but I live down here every day. I haven't even witnessed as much as a fight in 3 years. I don't even know the last time I heard an argument starting to get out of hand.

[corktownyuppie]

Furthermore, there are parts of Chicago where crime is very low. All of Detroit is fair game for these violent crime rates, even the supposedly "best" neighborhoods.

And the eMS/police likely responded on time [[for a big city) to those incidents. Last I looked it up, Chicago has an average police response time of 10 minutes. In Detroit, it was 30 minutes.

You raise an interesting point. Detroit would be a lot safer if: [[a) police response times were much lower and [[b) the crime was all concentrated in specific areas.

One observation...how much violent crime is based on people losing their temper vs. theft? Look at all the shootings that are domestic dispute cases, gang retaliation related, drug-deal-gone-bad related, you-disrespected-my-girl related.

The high profile shootings that took place at the fireworks last year...the homicide of the guy walking home from MGM a few months back...so many of these shootings are interpersonal conflicts that have spiraled out of control as compared to "random shootings" where you roll the dice walking on the sidewalk every day.

It's like Detroiters have one gargantuan anger management problem.

[Johnnny5]

...the homicide of the guy walking home from MGM a few months back...so many of these shootings are interpersonal conflicts that have spiraled out of control as compared to "random shootings" where you roll the dice walking on the sidewalk every day.
.

Did they ever find out what happened with that shooting? Last time I read anything about it they had no clue why the guy had been targeted, or what he was doing there.

[corktownyuppie]

Did they ever find out what happened with that shooting? Last time I read anything about it they had no clue why the guy had been targeted, or what he was doing there.

It was the retaliation of a confrontation that started at a bar.

[downtown_racine]

I follow nature, in bed at sundown and up at sunrise, Forget bars and festivals.
All it takes is one drunk or bath salt snorter to ruin a bunch of lives.

[Crumbled_pavement]

The problems with crime in Detroit can never be addressed until this city/region learns how to chew bubblegum and walk at the same time. We can only do one thing to address issues or do the other thing. Too often we can't even do the one thing. Detroit's crime issues need to be attacked on multiple levels simultaneously with an emphasis on addressing crime past, crime present, and crime future. Until we can adopt multiple stategies at the same time we will be reading stories like this in 2022 and having the exact same debates/arguments we're having now. Cities that have their crime problems under control don't just do one thing that addresses the issue, they do many things. We don't even do one...

[wolverine]

Another terrible incident – come on people!! I was at the Riverwalk yesterday and it was absolutely perfect – families, couples, kids, and regular people just enjoying a day off and warm weather. Now I open the news and see this – what a shame.

It's a shame that this kind of stuff happens anywhere in the city, but the fact that there was a shooting downtown is unbelievable to me.

[illwill]

This is just what the city didn't need! And for the rest of the world [[AND THE BAD MOUTH BURBS) to hear. Let's just hope this is a one time thing. I hope it doesn't discourage people and companies from moving back to the city and I doubt it will.

It took us so long to get to where we are, families returning to the city to enjoy ball games, parks, recreation, festivals, dining etc...

I assume this was a rare-random and idiotic act. I think we'll be ok...

We were doing so good!

[rex]

Simple enough: Lock this city down and clean sweep it. National Guard on every corner of every block, patrolling Hummers with 50cals on top. Institute an 8pm curfew. It should look like the military presence in Baghdad at the height of the Iraq war.

Among Detroit's problems is people leaving town and new residents not moving in. Even if they did that... Do people all the sudden feel safe and secure and ready to invest in the future of Detroit. Im thinking No. In fact. If there were patrolling Hummers with 50 cals and National Guard ever corner i couldnt get out fast enough. 8pm curfew... Literal prisoner of your own home status. No thx. I think i would feel more comfortable just surrounded by the criminals

We were doing so good!

wait... what?

[firstandten]

Where would you put them all? Who would pay for it?

This was in response to Michigan having a law like Florida's 10-20-life for using a gun.

According to Florida officials crime went down 26% when the law came about, however this figure is disputed by other people saying that there were other reasons. However, if we could say that crime went down at some figure up to 26% we are still ahead of the game.

Personally, I would think that over time, not short term, enough people would make the calculation that its too risky to even carry a gun that the law would pay for itself, in terms of jail space and cost.

My idea solution would be to have gun control laws, however that is a political hot potato that isn't going to be solved anytime soon. So my solution would be let everybody carry their guns but there will be a severe price to paid if caught doing a crime with one. However, in order for this to work the price has to be so severe that a rational person [[good or bad) will say its not worth it. The irrational person will only be deterred if there isn't a gun they can get to so in that event the crime would probably happen anyway.

Even bad guys do calculations in their head before they do crimes. Most will re-think their positions if the down-side is worst than the up-side.

The two years for using a gun is just not enough of a down-side for people that they would stop carrying and using guns.

My idea would be to serve the sentence for the crime and a minimum 10-15 year sentence for the use of a gun doing that crime on a consecutive basis

[royce]

From the Detroit News

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120529/METRO01/205290368/1409/metro/1-dead-2-injured-shooting-outside-Renaissance-Center



Really?

Detroit needs to get rid of knee-jerk idiots like them before it can have any chance at a true comeback.

What is scary about this incident is the fact that the shooter thought it necessary to carry a gun while going to the riverfront and/or downtown and then decided to use it. Was his girlfriend really disrespected? Was she wearing Daisy-Dukes and the guys in the crowd were just checking her out? Did they try to smack her butt? What constitutes disrespect? Also, after the shooting, did she run off with her boyfriend, the shooter, or did she turn him in? Reporting stories by the media are pretty bare bones these days. Maybe these guys knew each other and had a beef. However, who cares?
Again, what upstanding citizen brings a gun with him or her to a place where children are present? Ridiculous.

[superduperman]

This was in response to Michigan having a law like Florida's 10-20-life for using a gun.

According to Florida officials crime went down 26% when the law came about, however this figure is disputed by other people saying that there were other reasons. However, if we could say that crime went down at some figure up to 26% we are still ahead of the game.

Personally, I would think that over time, not short term, enough people would make the calculation that its too risky to even carry a gun that the law would pay for itself, in terms of jail space and cost.

My idea solution would be to have gun control laws, however that is a political hot potato that isn't going to be solved anytime soon. So my solution would be let everybody carry their guns but there will be a severe price to paid if caught doing a crime with one. However, in order for this to work the price has to be so severe that a rational person [[good or bad) will say its not worth it. The irrational person will only be deterred if there isn't a gun they can get to so in that event the crime would probably happen anyway.

Even bad guys do calculations in their head before they do crimes. Most will re-think their positions if the down-side is worst than the up-side.

The two years for using a gun is just not enough of a down-side for people that they would stop carrying and using guns.

My idea would be to serve the sentence for the crime and a minimum 10-15 year sentence for the use of a gun doing that crime on a consecutive basis

I'm going to have to disagree with you, federal laws are already in place that penalize criminals who are caught carrying a gun without using them in the commission of a crime and that hasn't deterred people from commiting crimes with them. Most criminals who get caught with a gun are going to do 5-10 min just for having a gun and with past criminal history they are looking at up to 30 years after they have been enhanced with federal sentencing guidelines. As far as criminals doing calculations before they commit a crime,what world do you live in? Most criminals aren't even aware of the laws they are breaking let alone what type of time they are looking at and if they were able to think that far ahead,they wouldn't be commiting the type of crime that requires a gun in the first place.

[firstandten]

The state of Michigan should look at something similar to Florida's 10-20-life law where if you produce a gun during a crime manditory 10 years, if you shoot a gun during a crime 20 years, if you kill somebody with a gun 25-life. Then flood the media like florida did with the slogan "if you use a gun you're done"

At this point we need to try something else, the manditory two years using a gun in committing a crime isn't bothering anyone.

When I wrote this I had no idea that this was in the works

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...type=printable

Looks like State Senator Rick Jones is proposing something along the lines I suggested, and it looks like it may get bi-partisan support as well as support from the police community. According to the article we could see this by the end of the year.

[cla1945]

When I wrote this I had no idea that this was in the works

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...type=printable

Looks like State Senator Rick Jones is proposing something along the lines I suggested, and it looks like it may get bi-partisan support as well as support from the police community. According to the article we could see this by the end of the year.

Good news for Detroit. Maybe this will be a deterrent for the criminal element everywhere.

[superduperman]

A criminal already gets 10 years in the feds for this type of thing, hasn't changed anything.

[firstandten]

I'm going to have to disagree with you, federal laws are already in place that penalize criminals who are caught carrying a gun without using them in the commission of a crime and that hasn't deterred people from commiting crimes with them. Most criminals who get caught with a gun are going to do 5-10 min just for having a gun and with past criminal history they are looking at up to 30 years after they have been enhanced with federal sentencing guidelines.

That may be the case, but we are talking about cases on the state level. That is where most of these gun incidents that happen in the city would fall under.

I would venture a guess that people getting caught up on federal gun charges are the more career criminal types and not the opportunistic teenagers that the state courts see.

[BEEAH]

Again, what upstanding citizen brings a gun with him or her to a place where children are present? Ridiculous.

Lots of us good, law abiding citizens carry protection everywhere we can because who else will protect us? Not you...

You goto any event just about anywhere and I would say a good 10 to 15% of people are carrying if they are not intending on drinking.

I'm an "Upstanding Citizen".

[coracle]

Sooner or later it was bound to happen, and it will happen again. We have a City with a surfeit of guns and criminals that use them. So make sure you're always completely surrounded by a crowd, or don't go. If you are shot I doubt you'll give a rat's ass as to how many years the shooter is going to get when you're fighting for your life.

[compn]

However, in order for this to work the price has to be so severe that a rational person [[good or bad) will say its not worth it.

rational people dont shoot into crowds.

everyone already knows the penalties for shooting/murdering a person, and yet , murders in detroit have not slowed.

we need to address the real problems. healthy enviroment [[pollution, lead poisoning and whatever is in the water causing these psycotic problems), health care [[mental illness treatment / anger management), education, jobs [[an idle hand is the devils playground etc), getting rid of gangs by removing at least one source of income [[by ending drug prohibition).

i'm not arguing against harsher gun sentencing guidelines. i think its a good idea. but i dont think it will help much. whenever someone brings up the national guard, all i think about is kent state. so i think thats a bad idea in every sense.

you want to try something new? lets make dueling legal. america's founders used to duel all the damn time. alexander hamilton and aaron burr? you sullied the good name of my girlboo?! i challenge you to pistols at dawn sir! of course, air it on tv. more exciting than watching american idol anyways.

[firstandten]

rational people dont shoot into crowds.

everyone already knows the penalties for shooting/murdering a person, and yet , murders in detroit have not slowed.

we need to address the real problems. healthy enviroment [[pollution, lead poisoning and whatever is in the water causing these psycotic problems), health care [[mental illness treatment / anger management), education, jobs [[an idle hand is the devils playground etc), getting rid of gangs by removing at least one source of income [[by ending drug prohibition).

i'm not arguing against harsher gun sentencing guidelines. i think its a good idea. but i dont think it will help much. whenever someone brings up the national guard, all i think about is kent state. so i think thats a bad idea in every sense.

you want to try something new? lets make dueling legal. america's founders used to duel all the damn time. alexander hamilton and aaron burr? you sullied the good name of my girlboo?! i challenge you to pistols at dawn sir! of course, air it on tv. more exciting than watching american idol anyways.

I agree with what you say. This potential new law only attacks the symptoms of a more basic problem. However I'm convinced that our society is unable and some cases unwilling to attack the problems you mentioned in your post.

In the mean time people are getting shot every day, so something needs to be done.

I do believe that most behavior can be modified if the payoff is great enough or the penalty severe enough to change that persons way of acting.

Of course you won't reach everybody, and the smart ones will rob you with a bat, or knife. The ones you can't reach are going to use guns anyway [[regardless of a two year, ten year or life sentence for using a gun) so you just lock them up and throw away the key, and at least if you're getting robbed with a bat you have a little bit of a chance.

If this could reduce crimes using a gun by a quarter percentage [[like what Florida claimed) up to a third that would be significant

[cla1945]

Lots of us good, law abiding citizens carry protection everywhere we can because who else will protect us? Not you...

You goto any event just about anywhere and I would say a good 10 to 15% of people are carrying if they are not intending on drinking.

I'm an "Upstanding Citizen".

I legally carry and feel much better when I go out, anywhere where it's legal to carry . I don't venture into Detroit often, but when I do, my weapon is with me. I would absolutely hate to ever have to pull it out in order to protect myself or one of my loved ones. I know that when it leaves the holster, I will have to hurt someone and I sure don't want that on my conscience; however, the person threatening me doesn't care about me and surely doesn't have a conscience and wouldn't hesitate to kill me, so there would be no alternatives left.
What a shame that the situation has become so bad that people have to arm themselves just to go to the store or even to mow their lawns....what a horrible way to have to live your life.

[Shollin]

What I find fascinating is Toronto has 2.5 million people and only averages 60-80 murders and an identical sized city like Chicago averages 450-500 murders a year. Toronto is also one of the most diverse cities in North America so you can't play the race card.