Gunman fires into crowd in downtown detroit

Buy American · May-29-12, 07:27 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/20120529/NEWS01/120529008/1-dead-2-wounded-after-gunman-fires-into-crowd-in-downtown-Detroit?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-12, 07:33 AM

Does anyone know the story behind this? Motive? Situation? Was this a random shooting? Something doesn't make sense here.

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-12, 07:35 AM

p.s. I still advocate for the National Guard in Detroit. I don't understand how or why anyone can still think there's a problem with that with all that is going on.

**brizee** · May-29-12, 08:36 AM

Heartbreaking story. Could have easily been my brother or me. Actually makes me secondguess some consideration I've been making for a while.

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

p.s. I still advocate for the National Guard in Detroit. I don't understand how or why anyone can still think there's a problem with that with all that is going on.

Nope. I've heard stories from the last time the National Guard was here.

Also I'm a black male.

I can easily observe how the police, paramilitary and "civilian neighborhood watch" takes an entirely too cavalier to our lives and rights.

Not interested.

Besides what exactly would the NG have done to prevent or bring to justice this specific crime?

**Meddle** · May-29-12, 07:52 AM

Detroit is a literal outhouse.

Did the board miss this story?

http://www.freep.com/article/2012052...ocks-community

**AGinthe313** · May-29-12, 07:57 AM

Another terrible incident – come on people!! I was at the Riverwalk yesterday and it was absolutely perfect – families, couples, kids, and regular people just enjoying a day off and warm weather. Now I open the news and see this – what a shame.

**wolverine** · May-29-12, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by AGinthe313

Another terrible incident – come on people!! I was at the Riverwalk yesterday and it was absolutely perfect – families, couples, kids, and regular people just enjoying a day off and warm weather. Now I open the news and see this – what a shame.

It's a shame that this kind of stuff happens anywhere in the city, but the fact that there was a shooting downtown is unbelievable to me.

**Meddle** · May-29-12, 09:00 AM

There is no reason to discuss the Guard and no reason to keep bringing it up since there is no mechanism to activate them in normal times. And yes, this is normal times in Detroit and many other big cities. There is nothing abnormal happening. Read the news in any other city and you'll see very similar things happening as often or more often.

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-12, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

There is nothing abnormal happening. Read the news in any other city and you'll see very similar things happening as often or more often.

Well, I think this is the problem. We need to re-define normal.

**detmsp** · May-29-12, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Read the news in any other city and you'll see very similar things happening as often or more often.

You have got to be kidding me. You think this happens in other cities as often or more often? No way. Detroit is the most dangerous big city in the country by far. Not trying to hate on the city, but you have to acknowledge the problem before you can fix it.

**Mind field** · May-29-12, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

You have got to be kidding me. You think this happens in other cities as often or more often? No way. Detroit is the most dangerous big city in the country by far. Not trying to hate on the city, but you have to acknowledge the problem before you can fix it.

I completely agree that Detroit has an extremely serious issue with crime and violent crime. I don't think anyone on this forum disputes that. However to say that no other city has an issue like Detroit does is wrong. Over the holiday weekend in Chicago, ten were killed with over 40 shot.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/05/...end-shootings/

**brizee** · May-29-12, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mind field

I completely agree that Detroit has an extremely serious issue with crime and violent crime. I don't think anyone on this forum disputes that. However to say that no other city has an issue like Detroit does is wrong. Over the holiday weekend in Chicago, ten were killed with over 40 shot.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/05/...end-shootings/

Chicago's comments are just as hateful and full of misspelled barely veiled racism as the trash in our rags.

I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse!

**LeannaM** · June-11-12, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

You have got to be kidding me. You think this happens in other cities as often or more often? No way. Detroit is the most dangerous big city in the country by far. Not trying to hate on the city, but you have to acknowledge the problem before you can fix it.

You see shootings in every big city. However, these shootings are rarely Downtown or in touristy areas. I think in most cities the shootings are usually confined to the bad neighborhoods in the city. They're still a problem of course, but people usually don't pay much attention when it's an area of the city they know to avoid. It looks worse when the shooting happens in an area of the city people actually visit. Honestly, if somebody gets shot in a bad area, most people don't pay that much attention, because they never go to that neighborhood.

**Scottathew** · May-29-12, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

There is nothing abnormal happening. Read the news in any other city and you'll see very similar things happening as often or more often.

Well, then Detroit and Flint are normal and all other cities in Michigan are abnormal.

I live in Warren, Michigan's third largest city, and I can assure you that random shootings are very, very abnormal. In fact, even motive-driven shootings are not normal.

**Meddle** · May-29-12, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by detmsp

You have got to be kidding me. You think this happens in other cities as often or more often? No way. Detroit is the most dangerous big city in the country by far.

I'd say you haven't been reading news from other cities.

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I, too, am interested to hear just one example of how, realistically, the NG is going to do anything to meaningfully impact our systemic and cultural problems. I mean, are they better trained in CSI or something?

It won't.

No.

At best, it would be more warm bodies, but they probably would not have arrest powers. Remember that the NG is mostly part-timers, weekend warriors. In the MP brigades, many of them are police officers. So, if they're activated, they will be taken from their municipal duties, which may even be Detroit or Wayne County. Take them out of one uniform where they have authority and put them in one where they don't? How would that help?

Originally Posted by firstandten

The state of Michigan should look at something similar to Florida's 10-20-life law where if you produce a gun during a crime manditory 10 years, if you shoot a gun during a crime 20 years, if you kill somebody with a gun 25-life.

Where would you put them all? Who would pay for it?

Originally Posted by 48091

Well, then Detroit and Flint are normal and all other cities in Michigan are abnormal.

I live in Warren, Michigan's third largest city,

I'm not talking about 'burbs like Warren. I'm talking about Boston, New York, Newark, Hartford, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Kansas City, Seattle, Los Angeles, ......

**firstandten** · May-30-12, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Where would you put them all? Who would pay for it?

This was in response to Michigan having a law like Florida's 10-20-life for using a gun.

According to Florida officials crime went down 26% when the law came about, however this figure is disputed by other people saying that there were other reasons. However, if we could say that crime went down at some figure up to 26% we are still ahead of the game.

Personally, I would think that over time, not short term, enough people would make the calculation that its too risky to even carry a gun that the law would pay for itself, in terms of jail space and cost.

My idea solution would be to have gun control laws, however that is a political hot potato that isn't going to be solved anytime soon. So my solution would be let everybody carry their guns but there will be a severe price to paid if caught doing a crime with one. However, in order for this to work the price has to be so severe that a rational person [[good or bad) will say its not worth it. The irrational person will only be deterred if there isn't a gun they can get to so in that event the crime would probably happen anyway.

Even bad guys do calculations in their head before they do crimes. Most will re-think their positions if the down-side is worst than the up-side.

The two years for using a gun is just not enough of a down-side for people that they would stop carrying and using guns.

My idea would be to serve the sentence for the crime and a minimum 10-15 year sentence for the use of a gun doing that crime on a consecutive basis

superduperman · May-30-12, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

This was in response to Michigan having a law like Florida's 10-20-life for using a gun.

According to Florida officials crime went down 26% when the law came about, however this figure is disputed by other people saying that there were other reasons. However, if we could say that crime went down at some figure up to 26% we are still ahead of the game.

Personally, I would think that over time, not short term, enough people would make the calculation that its too risky to even carry a gun that the law would pay for itself, in terms of jail space and cost.

My idea solution would be to have gun control laws, however that is a political hot potato that isn't going to be solved anytime soon. So my solution would be let everybody carry their guns but there will be a severe price to paid if caught doing a crime with one. However, in order for this to work the price has to be so severe that a rational person [[good or bad) will say its not worth it. The irrational person will only be deterred if there isn't a gun they can get to so in that event the crime would probably happen anyway.

Even bad guys do calculations in their head before they do crimes. Most will re-think their positions if the down-side is worst than the up-side.

The two years for using a gun is just not enough of a down-side for people that they would stop carrying and using guns.

My idea would be to serve the sentence for the crime and a minimum 10-15 year sentence for the use of a gun doing that crime on a consecutive basis

I'm going to have to disagree with you, federal laws are already in place that penalize criminals who are caught carrying a gun without using them in the commission of a crime and that hasn't deterred people from commiting crimes with them. Most criminals who get caught with a gun are going to do 5-10 min just for having a gun and with past criminal history they are looking at up to 30 years after they have been enhanced with federal sentencing guidelines. As far as criminals doing calculations before they commit a crime,what world do you live in? Most criminals aren't even aware of the laws they are breaking let alone what type of time they are looking at and if they were able to think that far ahead,they wouldn't be commiting the type of crime that requires a gun in the first place.

**compn** · June-09-12, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

However, in order for this to work the price has to be so severe that a rational person [[good or bad) will say its not worth it.

rational people dont shoot into crowds.

everyone already knows the penalties for shooting/murdering a person, and yet , murders in detroit have not slowed.

we need to address the real problems. healthy enviroment [[pollution, lead poisoning and whatever is in the water causing these psycotic problems), health care [[mental illness treatment / anger management), education, jobs [[an idle hand is the devils playground etc), getting rid of gangs by removing at least one source of income [[by ending drug prohibition).

i'm not arguing against harsher gun sentencing guidelines. i think its a good idea. but i dont think it will help much. whenever someone brings up the national guard, all i think about is kent state. so i think thats a bad idea in every sense.

you want to try something new? lets make dueling legal. america's founders used to duel all the damn time. alexander hamilton and aaron burr? you sullied the good name of my girlboo?! i challenge you to pistols at dawn sir! of course, air it on tv. more exciting than watching american idol anyways.

**detroitsgwenivere** · May-29-12, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

Besides what exactly would the NG have done to prevent or bring to justice this specific crime?

I, too, am interested to hear just one example of how, realistically, the NG is going to do anything to meaningfully impact our systemic and cultural problems. I mean, are they better trained in CSI or something?

Cuz, I know one thing for sure. If the value of ones life doesn't mean shit in a crowd full of people, it sure isn't gonna mean anymore with a group of jarheads driving by in a humvee.

**rex** · May-29-12, 09:30 AM

In light of stories i read coming out of Downtown I feel like its way more dangerous than we are led to believe. I realize Wiki is a flawed reference where anyone can type anything but the claim that "A 2006 study showed crime in downtown Detroit [[CBD) is much lower than national, state and metro averages" Not sure I buy it. Downtown may not be 48205 but safe? DPD can tell you whatever they want. It couldn't have been 5 years ago they were called out on under-reporting crime. This annual music festival puts a lot of people downtown 3 nights each summer. Good for restaurants, hotels. Probably amounts in the millions of dollars. Are there usually crowds of people hanging at 11pm on Monday nights at Atwater and Woodbridge? Even if it wasn't related to the festival it doesn't make much difference. A gunman still fired into a crowd injuring 2 and killing 1 downtown. Did I go to Movement? no. Would this story prevent me from going in the future? probably not. Would news like this prevent other people from attending in the future? perhaps.
I think DPD would lie to protect that sorce of revenue. It very well could have been entirely unrelated to the festival. It just seems unlikely and I'm not big on lies regarding public safety.

**corktownyuppie** · May-29-12, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by rex

In light of stories i read coming out of Downtown I feel like its way more dangerous than we are led to believe. I realize Wiki is a flawed reference where anyone can type anything but the claim that "A 2006 study showed crime in downtown Detroit [[CBD) is much lower than national, state and metro averages" Not sure I buy it. Downtown may not be 48205 but safe? DPD can tell you whatever they want. It couldn't have been 5 years ago they were called out on under-reporting crime. This annual music festival puts a lot of people downtown 3 nights each summer. Good for restaurants, hotels. Probably amounts in the millions of dollars. Are there usually crowds of people hanging at 11pm on Monday nights at Atwater and Woodbridge? Even if it wasn't related to the festival it doesn't make much difference. A gunman still fired into a crowd injuring 2 and killing 1 downtown. Did I go to Movement? no. Would this story prevent me from going in the future? probably not. Would news like this prevent other people from attending in the future? perhaps.
I think DPD would lie to protect that sorce of revenue. It very well could have been entirely unrelated to the festival. It just seems unlikely and I'm not big on lies regarding public safety.

I dunno...I see what you're saying, but I live down here every day. I haven't even witnessed as much as a fight in 3 years. I don't even know the last time I heard an argument starting to get out of hand.

**Hypestyles** · May-29-12, 09:31 AM

horrible. God bless the dead and injured. Craziness. A buddy came from out of town to see the movement fest-- I'm glad we weren't confronted with any of this madness..

**firstandten** · May-29-12, 09:33 AM

The state of Michigan should look at something similar to Florida's 10-20-life law where if you produce a gun during a crime manditory 10 years, if you shoot a gun during a crime 20 years, if you kill somebody with a gun 25-life. Then flood the media like florida did with the slogan "if you use a gun you're done"

At this point we need to try something else, the manditory two years using a gun in committing a crime isn't bothering anyone.

**firstandten** · June-08-12, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

The state of Michigan should look at something similar to Florida's 10-20-life law where if you produce a gun during a crime manditory 10 years, if you shoot a gun during a crime 20 years, if you kill somebody with a gun 25-life. Then flood the media like florida did with the slogan "if you use a gun you're done"

At this point we need to try something else, the manditory two years using a gun in committing a crime isn't bothering anyone.

When I wrote this I had no idea that this was in the works

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...type=printable

Looks like State Senator Rick Jones is proposing something along the lines I suggested, and it looks like it may get bi-partisan support as well as support from the police community. According to the article we could see this by the end of the year.

**cla1945** · June-08-12, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

When I wrote this I had no idea that this was in the works

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18...type=printable

Looks like State Senator Rick Jones is proposing something along the lines I suggested, and it looks like it may get bi-partisan support as well as support from the police community. According to the article we could see this by the end of the year.

Good news for Detroit. Maybe this will be a deterrent for the criminal element everywhere.