What happened to the Scientologists?

[Blarf]

I understand your, I assume, distrust and disklike of organized religion, but Scientology is not a religion. The Roman Catholic Church has 1 billion members on earth in which it tries it's darndest to shephard them and care for them. But we are human and we make mistakes.

Scientology is a cult. A fad for the current day and swindles people into believing silly psyscho tests will help them through life.

It's just sad you equalize it's members. One is trying to find God's will for him/her. The other is trying out the latest fashion because Travolta or Cruise are members.

You are correct. I dislike ALL organized religions.

Scientology is as much of a religion as Catholicism. Catholicism is just a much more older, respected, and acknowledged cult.

You say "Scientology is a cult. A fad for the current day and swindles people into believing silly psyscho tests will help them through life."

The same can be said about your church.

[Gannon]

I don't care how many of any religion there are in the world. Why would anyone care about something between an individual and their Maker?! Who counts things like that?!


I care that the Catholics still count ME, who they made a bastard by annulling my parent's marriage, and others LIKE me who do not wish to be counted as Catholics in any way, shape, or form. We just didn't get the chance to edit the list after being baptized and confirmed...

They should be ashamed of even counting those who only come twice a year to mass! [[sorry, have a little of the guilt left in me to share!)


For the record, MOST of those in my life who consider themselves Muslim act just like those I know who consider themselves Catholic or Jewish or pretty much ANY other religion...they barely pay it any mind at all in their daily life yet pull it out when convenient, then bash it over another's head when deemed necessary.








I'm sure Allah/God/Yahweh is happy with that hypocritical trend...it is all so merely human of us to miss that which spends our time just outside our five senses, right?!

[LeannaM]

It's funny ...as crazy as Scientology is and as openly mocked for it's ridiculousness, no one seems to have problem with virgin births and worshiping a jewish zombie.

I think it's terrible that you are so closed-minded. It's not only that you mock Christianity because you do not understand it. It's that you seem to have not even tried to understand it.

I don't think Catholicism is a cult. If you don't want to go to church, I don't see the church rounding you up and making you go. That said, I am a Protestant, so I have not been raised in a Catholic church, never been to one actually.

Has the church made terrible mistakes over the years [[selling Indulgences, the Inquisition, the Crusades)? Absolutely. But the church in its current form is not a cult. There may be some sects that are cult-like, but the overall church is not a cult. Yes, many feel the need to stay in their church for religious reasons. That doesn't make it a cult. It just means that people feel a need to stay there. And sometimes people want to switch churches. That doesn't change their relationship with God. Their salvation is between them and God, not dependent on what particular church they belong to.

I'm sorry if the church [[Catholic or not) has hurt you in the past. Unfortunately, there are many hypocrites in the church. That does not make my relationship with God any less valid and real. I'm pretty sure that God is disappointed with the current state of his church overall, since the members of the church seem to want to be more like the world than like Christ. I don't think God appreciates that many of his followers sit in a service once, maybe twice, a week and then live completely apart from the Word of God the rest of the week. There are many people who want to ignore God, and only talk to him when there's a problem in their lives. It's unfortunate. It does not make God any less powerful or any less caring.

Do I sin? All the time. I'm not better than anyone else. However, I repent everyday. I talk to God. And sometimes he talks to me. It's just a feeling, not an audible voice, though I do know people who have heard God directly speak to them. But God directs me, and I feel his presence. I see him working in my life and those around me.

I'm sorry if others around me can't understand that God is there. But my religion is not "bogus" and I'm not any less intelligent than the rest of you. I choose to live my life for God. If you think I'm a "moron," then that's your prerogative. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[MIRepublic]

I think it's terrible that you are so closed-minded. It's not only that you mock Christianity because you do not understand it. It's that you seem to have not even tried to understand it.

I hope that you approve of the defense of Scientology, too, then, because they would say the exact same thing of their religion. Really, time to seperate the fair from the hypocrites.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I hope that you approve of the defense of Scientology, too"

Why would anyone? You're making a straw argument, and not even a good one.

Attempting to compare historically proven places, events, commonly held beliefs throughout the world to some out of work sci-fi writer that started a scam.

The disappointment about this person and that person involved in religion is totally irrelevant. We don't worship men. It's a one on one relationship with the almighty. It doesn't cost anything, we don't have to go anywhere to talk to him or listen to him.

[Gannon]

Ah...but you DID have to go somewhere to learn to ascribe some gender orientation and/or anthropomorphic identity to this Being Outside of Time!

[Sstashmoo]

Gannon, would you like a free personality test?

[jtf1972]

I used to work with a guy who had been a Scientologist. He had been a struggling actor and was brought to a meeting by another struggling actor. At the meeting, a decently attractive lady took a liking to him & wanted to talk further with him. Back at her place they had amazing sex & he became more interested. A couple days later, once he gave them money & joined, she latched onto another new guy. He went to the doctor & got the penicillin he needed for gonorrhea.

[Gannon]

If it is pass/fail I already know the outcome...

[DetroitDad]

I'm not mocking Catholicism or God, I'm just posting this and asking that you view it from an outsiders view who knows nothing about your religion or God.

I think it's terrible that you are so closed-minded. It's not only that you mock Christianity because you do not understand it. It's that you seem to have not even tried to understand it.

I don't think Catholicism is a cult. If you don't want to go to church, I don't see the church rounding you up and making you go. That said, I am a Protestant, so I have not been raised in a Catholic church, never been to one actually.

Has the church made terrible mistakes over the years [[selling Indulgences, the Inquisition, the Crusades)? Absolutely. But the church in its current form is not a cult. There may be some sects that are cult-like, but the overall church is not a cult. Yes, many feel the need to stay in their church for religious reasons. That doesn't make it a cult. It just means that people feel a need to stay there. And sometimes people want to switch churches. That doesn't change their relationship with God. Their salvation is between them and God, not dependent on what particular church they belong to.

I'm sorry if the church [[Catholic or not) has hurt you in the past. Unfortunately, there are many hypocrites in the church. That does not make my relationship with God any less valid and real. I'm pretty sure that God is disappointed with the current state of his church overall, since the members of the church seem to want to be more like the world than like Christ. I don't think God appreciates that many of his followers sit in a service once, maybe twice, a week and then live completely apart from the Word of God the rest of the week. There are many people who want to ignore God, and only talk to him when there's a problem in their lives. It's unfortunate. It does not make God any less powerful or any less caring.

Do I sin? All the time. I'm not better than anyone else. However, I repent everyday. I talk to God. And sometimes he talks to me. It's just a feeling, not an audible voice, though I do know people who have heard God directly speak to them. But God directs me, and I feel his presence. I see him working in my life and those around me.

I'm sorry if others around me can't understand that God is there. But my religion is not "bogus" and I'm not any less intelligent than the rest of you. I choose to live my life for God. If you think I'm a "moron," then that's your prerogative. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I think it's terrible that you are so closed-minded. It's not only that you mock Scientology because you do not understand it. It's that you seem to have not even tried to understand it.

I don't think Scientology is a cult. If you don't want to go to church, I don't see the church rounding you up and making you go. That said, I am a Catholic, so I have not been raised in a church pf Scientology, never been to one actually.

Has the church made terrible mistakes over the years [[selling private information, the Fair Game Policy, the Disconnection Policy)? Absolutely. But the church in its current form is not a cult. There may be some sects that are cult-like, but the overall church is not a cult. Yes, many feel the need to stay in their church for religious reasons. That doesn't make it a cult. It just means that people feel a need to stay there. And sometimes people want to switch churches. That doesn't change their relationship with God. Their salvation is between them and God, not dependent on what particular church they belong to.

I'm sorry if the church [[Scientology or not) has hurt you in the past. Unfortunately, there are many hypocrites in the church. That does not make my relationship with God any less valid and real. I'm pretty sure that God is disappointed with the current state of his people overall, since some of the members of the church seem to want to be more like the world than like the operative theta state.

Do I sin? All the time. I'm not better than anyone else as I have not yet worked up the ladder to an operative theta state. However, I use dianetics to repent everyday. I talk to my inner reactive mind. And sometimes he talks to me. It's just a feeling, not an audible voice, though I do know people who have heard their inner reactive mind directly speak to them. But my inner reactive mind directs me, and I feel it's presence. I see it working in my life and those around me.

I'm sorry if others around me can't understand that I am a thetan and my inner reactive mind is there. But my religion is not "bogus" and I'm not any less intelligent than the rest of you. I choose to live my life for affinity, reality, and communication. If you think I'm a "moron," then that's your prerogative. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

I grew up Catholic, and the elders in my family growing up were Catholic. My wife, when we were dating, was not actively religious. When one of my Grandparents died, she attended the funeral which was with a full service mass. I could see it in her face, she was mortified at the cult likeness of it all, and probably thought she was dating a nut. Think about it, everyone talking in unison, being led by a old priest being aided by young boys, appearing to pray to statues, feeling obligated to put money in a basket, doing the little hand signs in unison, and then drinking the metaphorical kool-aide from a chalice with some wafers.

The service looked extra strange to her never actually attending a religous service period. She told me after we left, she saw no difference between the cults on T.V. and that of a Catholic church service. I tried to justify the actions at first, but it made me think; "what made my beliefs right? Was it only that I grew up with these beliefs that made them seem normal and right?". Then it dawned on me that to the rest of the world, I was following a group that was advocating following the teachings of a 2,000 year old carpenter [[yes, zombie in some views) that did drugs/starved himself to talk to God, and came back professing to be the son of God, and that all this was written a very long time ago in a book that many also view as a deep work of fiction, and even if it wasn't, it has clearly been more than likely edited and rewritten by kings and past religious rulers to help control their people.

I do get why people see no difference between a religion and a cult. Do they "just not get it"? Maybe, but I get why they fail to see a difference based on appearance alone.

[Bobl]

Sludgedaddy:
Be careful, grasshopper. Sarcasm hurts.
One must be careful not to ignite the scorn from Fair Game believing converts to the Catholic Inquisition as carried out by the Islamic Front after the Hindu Self protection sect brings all into the fold through Buddhist Self Immolation methods of prosyletizing the One United True Religion Of The 21st Century, accomplished by the adaptation of the International Prohibition Of Logic Act.

[DetroitDad]

Scientology is the perfect religion for celebrities. You have to be rich to take expensive classes, then you can get rid of that nagging feeling of guilt.

As a Christian, I know many find parts of the Bible hard to believe. And sometimes it is. Although there's debate over whether the Bible is literal or figurative, or both. But these scientology people are just nuts when you actually read what they believe.

Even if I wanted to be a scientologist, I couldn't afford it. Let's all pour millions of dollars into the "revelations" of a science fiction-writing, drug addict "prophet."

Honestly, it's just ridiculous.

I do my best to be tolerant religiously, as well all should, but I'd be fine if I never ran across a scientology recruitment center.

Their commercials are interesting, but they fail to talk about the aliens that are in our bodies.

If you're going to fully believe in something, there needs to be some history to it, some basis that makes sense. Scientology is like basing your religion on Star Trek.

I believe there are vast differences between most religions and Scientology, but it is for non of these incorrect reasons that some are saying. Please stop marring Christianity by showing how little you have investigated other religions.

1. The "aliens" inside of our bodies as you call them, are the equivalent of what other religions call a soul.
2. Saying a writer can't do anything but wright, and not found a religion or find God is like saying a carpenter is silly for founding a religion or finding God.
3. The definition of cult is basically a religion that isn't main stream. Scientology is now main stream with many followers.
4. Scientology might have stories woven around them but it's core belief is based on basic Gnosticism and Hinduism, very old religious beliefs that predate Christianity and Judaism.
5. As to science fiction; what Scientology does [[much like the bible did) is put together new testaments and stories to help explain the basic principals. It's up to the reader to decide whether those stories are true or not. Generally, those stories aren't told in the religion to people that prove that they are unable to comprehend those stories or tell fact from fiction, something I wish Catholicism would do.

The problem isn't in their belief structure, it's in it's ability to be used for achieving power and money in the wrong hands, just like most other religions.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "The definition of cult is basically a religion that isn't main stream."

No, the definition of a cult is religion that is not the will of God and is based on worship of a man or of men, instead of God. Man wanting to be revered and served instead of men steering one to serve God. Many modern day churches are cults. As individuals we should not base our faith on the works and actions of others. It is a decision we make for ourselves. Again, it's a one on one relationship.

[DetroitDad]

Quote: "The definition of cult is basically a religion that isn't main stream."

No, the definition of a cult is religion that is not the will of God and is based on worship of a man or of men, instead of God. Man wanting to be revered and served instead of men steering one to serve God. Many modern day churches are cults. As individuals we should not base our faith on the works and actions of others. It is a decision we make for ourselves. Again, it's a one on one relationship.

Yes! There are actually eight different definitions in various dictionaries. Either way though, it's not a cult as they don't really worship a man. There are variances in the definition that would make it a cult, but then you also end up making Christianity and other religions a cult at various points in history, possibly as recently as this past decade, again depending on the definition you choose.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "but then you also end up making Christianity and other religions a cult"

It's a matter of opinion, it's like saying everything that floats is a watercraft. Vague similarities but not the same. Christianity is not a religion, I don't care what wikipedia says on the subject. Christianity is faith in the Lord. Period. It's not a religion, it's what most religions are based on. Again, it is a matter of opinion. That's mine, it's based on the scriptures and that is it. No memberships, no organizations, no rituals, scripture based belief. Period. And unlike organized religion it is open to interpretation.

[MIRepublic]

Oh my goodness. Is that what you tell yourself, that Christianity is not a religion. You wish that it weren't. Some of you on here can't be serious; this is plain and utter foolishness. And, then you have the gall to try and bash someone else's belief system? Good FSM! That's downright twisted.

It's one thing to believe what one believes and find personal strength and inspiration in it. I don't have a problem with that, at all. It's entirely another to perform mental gymnastics to try and make light of or bash someone elses belief system, or simply to put your's at the top of the heap. It's not just ironic, it's fanatical insanity to be blunt. Watching religious fight to try and convince everyone elses that there's is the true religion is like watching a bunch of owners fighting it out to see who has the most beautiful pig at a state fair.

[DetroitDad]

But yeah, it appears that the Raymond James Building is not going to be used right now, and the Scientologist headquarters will stay in Farmington Hills.

[Jimaz]

Christian Majority Losing Steam

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Is that what you tell yourself, that Christianity is not a religion."

Yes, that is what I believe, and you can believe what ever you want. See how that works?

Quote: "You wish that it weren't."

I know that it isn't. You wish that it was. You know why there is a drive to classify it as a religion? It is then a group that can be controlled by men. I have some news for you, it can't. Sort of like fighting terrorism with conventional forces, it's a lost cause.

Quote: "It's one thing to believe what one believes and find personal strength and inspiration in it. I don't have a problem with that, at all."

And for that I say "Thank you" In a Taco Bell drive through window sort of way.

Quote: "and make light of or bash someone elses belief system,"

Where did I make light of or "bash" anyone's belief? If you're referring to my discounting a faith in a DC-8 load of aliens piloted by some guy named "Xeon" 75 million years ago. Forgive me I have a brain and tend to use it occasionally.

Quote: "or simply to put your's at the top of the heap."

There is no "heap". Only one belief that I have chosen for my one on one relationship.

Quote: " That's downright twisted."

Good, I'm on the right track.

[MIRepublic]

You are the definition of a wingnut, and you're, in fact, more hopeless than most. You've not only convinced yourself of the sureness of your religion, but you've jumped the shark in admitting that you don't even believe that it's a religion. Unlike some Christians, you've quite literally admitted through your posts that you're insane.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Unlike some Christians, you've are literally admitted through your post that you're insane."

How so? I simply stated my beliefs are based on scripture. How is that the definition of "insanity"?

[gumby]

I understand your, I assume, distrust and disklike of organized religion, but Scientology is not a religion. The Roman Catholic Church has 1 billion members on earth in which it tries it's darndest to shephard them and care for them. But we are human and we make mistakes.

Scientology is a cult. A fad for the current day and swindles people into believing silly psyscho tests will help them through life.

It's just sad you equalize it's members. One is trying to find God's will for him/her. The other is trying out the latest fashion because Travolta or Cruise are members.

Just because something is old and popular doesn't give it anymore merit than the new and ridiculous. Both require you to have blind faith in thing that do not make logical sense. One requires you to believe that our souls are reincarnated from aliens that were trapped in a volcano [[or something like that) and the other requires that you believe that mankind's savior was born to a virgin mother who came back from the dead after he was crucified. Neither of them are logical when examined so why is your belief system anymore valid than that of the Scientologist's?

You do realize that Christianity was once considered a small fad cult by the Romans and Jews.

[DetroitDad]

Greasy vandal in hate crime vs. Scientology

BY KERRY BURKE, SIMONE WEICHSELBAUM, ALISON GENDAR and LEO STANDORA
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Updated Thursday, January 15th 2009, 9:21 AM
A hooligan claiming to be a member of an anti-Scientology group was arrested Wednesday for attempting to "desecrate" the Church of Scientology with a wacky weapon - Vaseline, police said.
Mahoud Samed Almahadin - the name he gave cops - tossed a number of books around, then smeared the petroleum jelly on a TV set, shelves and himself during the incident at the W. 46th St. Scientology center last week.
A cohort videotaped the 18-year-old's antics while surveillance cameras filmed them both.
Cops used the tapes to track down the dopey duo, who said they were members of Anonymous, a shadowy, Internet-based anti-Scientology group.
A cop escorting the suspect to his arraignment, said "He's just a kid. He's young and he's dumb."
Police said Almahadin, clad in shorts, boots and rubber gloves, entered the building at 227 W. 46th St. with his partner at about 1:30 p.m. Thursday and went to work. The Vaseline was laced with toenail clippings and pubic hair, police said.
Shown the tapes at the Midtown North Precinct, Almahadin admitted, "Yup, that's me," a source said.
Almahadin, whose who goes by Matt Connor on the Web, was charged with burglary, criminal mischief and aggravated harassment as hate crimes. No charges were filed against the other man


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/01/15/2009-01-15_greasy_vandal_in_hate_crime_vs_scientolo.html#i xzz0JBnbqI5D&C

Which one of you anti-Scientologists had a hand in this???

[Sludgedaddy]

If I had my hand in Vaseline, I'd probably would be doing things to Miss Michigan.

[DetroitDad]

Here's a more serious report that broke today, it's being cycled on the Headline News Channel;

http://www.southernledger.com/ap/285...ology_managers

The leader of the Church of Scientology struck his subordinates numerous times and set an example for physical violence among the tightly controlled religion's management team, four former high-ranking executives told a newspaper for a story published Sunday.
The executives who have since left the organization told The St. Petersburg Times that they witnessed David Miscavige, chairman of the board that oversees the church, hit staff members dozens of times, often without warning.
"It was random and whimsical. It could be the look on your face. Or not answering a question quickly. But it always was a punishment," said Mike Rinder, who oversaw the church's legal and media relations operations. Rinder said he was hit many times by Miscavige and that he also hit others before leaving in 2007.
In a response to the paper, the church denied the allegations, saying that the four former executives statements were "absolute and total lies," and the claims are an effort to tarnish Miscavige.
Marty Rathbun, who served on the church's board and was a top lieutenant of Miscavige's, said he was often ordered by Miscavige to attack others.
Tom De Vocht, who for years oversaw the church's spiritual headquarters in Clearwater, estimated that during one three-year period, he saw Miscavige strike staffers as many as 100 times. He left in 2005.
De Vocht also participated, explaining to the newspaper how he rationalized his actions: "If I don't attack I'm going to be attacked. It's a survival instinct in a weird situation that no one should be in."
Amy Scobee, a manager in California who helped build the church's network of Celebrity Centres, said she witnessed numerous attacks before leaving in 2005 but was never hit herself or saw any other women attacked.
The former executives all expressed dismay at the violence, but the newspaper's story didn't detail the circumstances surrounding each one's departure.
Monique Yingling, a church spokeswoman, told the newspaper that the four left because they had been removed from their posts and couldn't handle the demotions.
Church spokesman Tommy Davis told the newspaper that an internal investigation revealed that Rathbun _ and not Miscavige _ was responsible for dozens of attacks in the years before he left in 2004.
The church told The Associated Press that Davis was in a meeting Sunday and wasn't immediately available for comment.
The newspaper reported it met with church spokesmen and lawyers for 25 hours and that it began requesting to interview Miscavige on May 13 but was told his schedule would not permit it before a date in July.
"I am at a loss to comprehend how the St. Petersburg Times can publish a story about me and the religion I lead without accepting the offer to speak with me," Miscavige said in a letter to the newspaper e-mailed on Saturday.
Sunday's report was the first of a three-part series on the church.
The Los Angeles-based Church of Scientology, founded in 1954 by the late science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, teaches that technology can expand the mind and help solve problems. It claims 10 million members around the world, including celebrity devotees Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
Devotees converge on Clearwater, on Florida' west coast, for the highest levels of the church's training programs. By church tallies, around 12,000 Scientologists live and work in and around Clearwater.
Scientologists believe spiritual enlightenment is possible by ridding the mind and soul of the accumulated, unwanted effects of this lifetime and innumerable previous lifetimes through an intense counseling process called "auditing." Auditors use a device called an "e-meter," similar to a polygraph.
Parishioners pay hundreds and even thousands of dollars for the auditing services and progress through various levels of "Operating Thetan." Those seeking to achieve the highest "OT" levels visit Clearwater.