What happened to the Scientologists?

[Sludgedaddy]

Yes, Bigb23...just the thought of John Travolta as the pilot of that 707 humming Bee-Gees tunes right out of "Saturday Night Fever" hoving over my hovel sents chills down my spine.

Lucky for me, I've planned for that eventuality by constructing a replica V-2 Rocket that I was originally going to use to take out Saginaw.

Another religious sect that always aroused my curiosity was the Church of Jesus Christ, Scientist. I've always wondered if they depicted J.C. in their icons as wearing one of those 1940's double breasted lab coats and changing water into wine using laboratory apparatus."St. Peter...release the kites! "

[dtowncitylover]

Another religious sect that always aroused my curiosity was the Church of Jesus Christ, Scientist. I've always wondered if they depicted J.C. in their icons as wearing one of those 1940's double breasted lab coats and changing water into wine using laboratory apparatus."St. Peter...release the kites! "

That's the Church of Christ, Scientist. While I won't consider them a cult, many don't consider them Christian. I will. My great-grandparents were Scientist in their later years. They believe in prayer to heal the sick and they don't use modern medicine much. Also you go to Sunday School until 20 years of age.

[Blarf]

What does that mean?

It means I think both religions are equally ludicrous.

[dtowncitylover]

It means I think both religions are equally ludicrous.

That's too bad.

[Sludgedaddy]

The thought of entering an odd religious sect has crossed my mind more than a few times. I've oft wondered about joining the Order of Crustaceans. The idea of re-generating lost limbs appeals greatly to me. Suddenly, I'm hearing an old B-52's tune in the back of my head......

[cheddar bob]

Scientology was invented my science fiction writer for the benefit of himself.

You're quick to dismiss this far-fetched belief as a money grabbing scheme, but yet you can blindly follows this far-fetched idea...?

The Catholic Church was founded by a Man who came to Earth for the salvation of mankind.

Scientologists require money to enlighten people and christians guilt people into donating.

Things you never see...a skinny or unemployed minister. Why? Because there will always be people so afraid of what happens after death that they will believe and donate to any unbelievable story that promises hope for eternal life.

[Sludgedaddy]

.....as I now slide off into a meditative trance, taught to me by the Grand Master, Chakra Zulu, and given to me ,the ability to see pentagrams in the palms of Lycanthropes....I intone the Chant... John H...O..L...M...E...S........H....O....L....M....E. ...S.......H...O....L...M...E....S....

My Brown Eye Opens and surrounding me are the auras of Amelia Earhart, Wiley Post, Otis Readding, Buddy Holly , Count Von Zepplin and other Lost Planet Airmen.....

John H....O....L...M....E....S.....H...O.....L....M.... E....S......H...O...L...M....E....S....

I can now see that Dracula also offered Renfield Eternal Life..........

[MIRepublic]

I am passionate about my Church, so please don't call it a "scam". Scientology was invented my science fiction writer for the benefit of himself. The Catholic Church was founded by a Man who came to Earth for the salvation of mankind. [[I'm not much for preaching about my church unless I have to, so that's all I have to say about that.) FIN.

This is rich, but it's also so very sad. To not be able to see the irony is crushing to anyone with any empathy.

That said, not all religions are equally as wacky or equally deceptive. Scientology happens to be particularly hokey and insidious in its deception.

[DetroitDad]

If you're going to allow catholic churches in the city, why not Scientologists? They are both equally wack.

The big draw to Scientology is that you can keep your old religion. What really seems to separate Scientology from other religions in the United States is this;

This is a clip from Wikipedia about their Fair Game policy;

In 1965 Hubbard formulated the "Fair Game Law", which states how to deal with people who interfere with Scientology's activities. These problematic people, called suppressive persons, could be considered "fair game" for retaliation:

A Suppressive Person or Group becomes fair game. By FAIR GAME is meant, may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines or the rights of a Scientologist.[4]

Later in December of that year, Hubbard reissued the Fair Game policy with additional clarifications to define the scope of Fair Game. He made it clear that the policy applied to non-Scientologists as well. He declared:

The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends.[5]

Hubbard made it clear elsewhere in his writings that the policy would be applied to external organizations, including governments, that were guilty of having interfered with Scientology's activities. He told Scientologists:

If the Internal Revenue Service [[in refusing the FCDC [Founding Church of Scientology, Washington DC] non-profit status) continues to act up or if the FDA does sue we can of course Comm Ev [Committee of Evidence] them and if found guilty, label and publish them as a Suppressive Group and fair game ... [N]one is fair game until he or she declares against us.[6]

The policy was further extended in an October 1967 Policy Letter [[HCOPL 18 Oct 67 Issue IV, Penalties for Lower Conditions), where Hubbard defined the "penalties" for an individual deemed to be in a "Condition of Enemy":

ENEMY — SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.[7]

When a man named Peter Goodwin in Hampshire, England purchased a high-level Scientology course for £250 and resold it to friends for £50, Hubbard personally issued an Ethics order which "withdrew any future help from Goodwin and his associates, [[presumably for eternity), and threatened the most dire retaliations."[8]
An Ethics Order dating from March 6, 1968, issued by L. Ron Hubbard aboard his boat the Royal Scotsman, lists twelve scientologists who were accused of distributing altered versions of upper level technology. Hubbard writes "They are fair game. No amnesty may ever cover them. [...] Any Sea Org member contacting them is to use Auditing Process R2-45."[9][10]

[DetroitDad]

They used to have a storefront in Royal Oak, and they would stand on the corner at Main & Fourth and offer "personality tests" to everyone. Tenacious buggers, too. They would follow you across the street trying to get you to go inside. I suppose I should watch what I say here--they're liable to send their alien lawyers after me for libel.

These personality tests or "audits" do seem to draw people in. I am not foolish enough to say whether any religion is right or wrong, I just try to keep an open mind. However, be aware that taking these personality test do require you to reveal a lot of personal information about yourself. Some suspect, possibly incorrectly, that this information from these sessions account for the massive amounts of political and celebrity followers. This also means that while Scientology might be totally legit, what happens if control of even a small part of the religion fell into the wrong hands? Again from Wikipedia [[article on Scientology);

During the auditing process, the auditor may collect personal information from the person being audited.[267] Auditing records are referred to within Scientology as "preclear folders".[268] The Church of Scientology has strict codes designed to protect the confidentiality of the information contained in these folders.[267] However, people leaving Scientology know that the Church is in possession of very personal information about them, and that the Church has a history of attacking and psychologically abusing those who leave it and become critics.[268] On 16 December 1969 a Guardian's Office order [[G. O. 121669) by Mary Sue Hubbard authorized the use of auditing records for purposes of "internal security."[269] Some former members have said that while they were still in the Church, they combed through information obtained in auditing sessions to see if it could be used for smear campaigns against critics.[270][271] The Church of Scientology of California responded by stating that the letter which gave Mary Sue Hubbard authority to cull confessional files was not official policy and had been previously canceled. Charges that private information from auditing files has actually been used against individuals have not been upheld in court.[267]

Also...

Scientology operates a number of churches that are designated "Celebrity Centers".[272] While also open to the general public, they are primarily designed to minister to the large number of celebrity Scientologists.[272] Scientology has attracted several artists and entertainers, particularly Hollywood celebrities. There are eight so-called Celebrity Centres, although Hollywood is the largest. Entertainers – including John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Lisa Marie Presley, Nancy Cartwright [[voiceover artist best known as voice of "Bart Simpson" on The Simpsons), Jason Lee, Rob Thomas [[musician), Isaac Hayes, Tom Cruise, and Katie Holmes – have generated considerable publicity for Scientology.

[LeannaM]

Scientology is the perfect religion for celebrities. You have to be rich to take expensive classes, then you can get rid of that nagging feeling of guilt.

As a Christian, I know many find parts of the Bible hard to believe. And sometimes it is. Although there's debate over whether the Bible is literal or figurative, or both. But these scientology people are just nuts when you actually read what they believe.

Even if I wanted to be a scientologist, I couldn't afford it. Let's all pour millions of dollars into the "revelations" of a science fiction-writing, drug addict "prophet."

Honestly, it's just ridiculous.

I do my best to be tolerant religiously, as well all should, but I'd be fine if I never ran across a scientology recruitment center.

Their commercials are interesting, but they fail to talk about the aliens that are in our bodies.

If you're going to fully believe in something, there needs to be some history to it, some basis that makes sense. Scientology is like basing your religion on Star Trek.

Being a Christian can be difficult, because self-control is difficult. And as Christians we should try to follow God's laws. If you mess up, you repent, and try not to fail again. Being a Christian is not expensive. Most churches have free classes, free worship services, free Bible studies. All God requires is 10% of what we make, and it's not that much. A study Bible can cost you a lot for the most extensive versions, but you can get a good study Bible that's fairly understandable for around $30. And if one translation doesn't suit you, there are dozens of translations, saying the same thing, in various ways. Sometimes churches also give away Bibles. If you're really not picky, you can sometimes find a Bible [[usually without study notes) for under $10.

If Scientology is the right thing, it needs to be affordable enough for average people to get it. Fortunately, Christianity does not require you to be rich. Which is good for me, because I am not rich.

Are there people who abuse Christianity to gain money? Yes, there have been in the past, and there still are. In fact, the Bible speaks of false prophets. But you don't have to follow those false prophets. Christianity deals with the heart. God tells us to give 10% of our income, which is a small amount, and he gives us back so much more. If you feel in your heart that you should give more, then give it. But no amount of money will erase your sins. Only a repentant and contrite heart and sincere sorrow for what you have done will bring you salvation. And once you have been forgiven, that sin is gone. The consequences may still be there, but it's gone from God's record.

I know to non-christians this sounds silly. However, Scientology is not like Christianity. Christianity is a free gift. Yes, God wants us to give our 10% and he wants us to help others. However, you don't have to pay thousands of dollars to be saved. Salvation is free. And Christian literature is cheap. Churches sometimes give away Bibles. Even if you want to buy a Bible, they're fairly cheap. And there are many versions to help you understand what you are reading. If you leave Scientology, they have records of your deepest secrets. You can tell people in your Christian church about personal things, but you don't have to. Yes, Catholics have confession. Even then, I wouldn't be too worried about the priest spilling the beans. I'm not Catholic myself, though.

I know some see all religions as a cult, but most are not. Have there been Christian cults? Yes. However, that doesn't make all Christian churches into cults. That would be like saying that Michigan Central Station is a representation of every block in Detroit. That's not the case. It's generalizing. As people, we like to generalize, but generalizations are often not fair.

Also, Scientology apparently condones retaliation against those suppressing Scientology. Christianity does not condo retaliation. While Christianity supports being persistent in spreading the Gospel, The Bible also says that we will face persecution, and that we need to turn the other cheek from it. While Scientology is saying to destroy the homes of those who suppress Scientology, Christianity is saying to pray for them, and do your best to be nice to them and show them the love of Christ.

Are Christians a good representation of Christ? No, not usually, unfortunately. However, that doesn't make Christianity and the Bible any less valid, nor does it turn Christianity into a cult. To say that all of Christianity is a cult is ignorant and laughable.

[g-dub]

Really? The voice of Bart Simpson? Amazing. I would have thought she would have been attuned to the scathing satire of Matt Groening, and would know better. Anyway, this is not a religion. It is a business model crafted by Mr. L. Ron to make money. I have nothing against entrepreneur pursuits, but when you start fukking with people's beliefs in order to make said money, I have a problem with that. It is really no different than being a crack dealer. You are basically preying upon basic human weakness. And that is certainly criminal. L. Ron wrote some crappy sci-fi books, and was frustrated with their lack of profitability. So, he invented a religion that incorporated much of the far-flung goofiness of his pulp novels, and it worked. The amazing thing is that it still works. Scientology drags down my opinion of humanity, and most definitely plays into my notion that life is completely absurd. I would prefer that it be beautiful, but human weakness has a way of tarnishing my rose-colored glasses.

[DetroitDad]

But getting back on topic, it appears they have chosen to locate their regional headquarters in Farmington Hills. I do love how they have the Renaissance Center on their header.

http://www.scientology-detroit.org/

[g-dub]

Funny, with all their money, that's the best website they could do? I tried clicking on the "Write Us" tab, and, of course, I get a 404 error. Creeps.

[g-dub]

D.D., I get that it was a brilliant exploitation of America's freedom of "religion" and opportunity, but the thing I'm confounded by is that it has lasted as long as it has. It's kind of a cliche, but P.T. Barnum was so right. Sad but true.

[dtowncitylover]

Scientology is the perfect religion for celebrities. You have to be rich to take expensive classes, then you can get rid of that nagging feeling of guilt.

As a Christian, I know many find parts of the Bible hard to believe. And sometimes it is. Although there's debate over whether the Bible is literal or figurative, or both. But these scientology people are just nuts when you actually read what they believe.

Even if I wanted to be a scientologist, I couldn't afford it. Let's all pour millions of dollars into the "revelations" of a science fiction-writing, drug addict "prophet."

Honestly, it's just ridiculous.

I do my best to be tolerant religiously, as well all should, but I'd be fine if I never ran across a scientology recruitment center.

Their commercials are interesting, but they fail to talk about the aliens that are in our bodies.

If you're going to fully believe in something, there needs to be some history to it, some basis that makes sense. Scientology is like basing your religion on Star Trek.

Being a Christian can be difficult, because self-control is difficult. And as Christians we should try to follow God's laws. If you mess up, you repent, and try not to fail again. Being a Christian is not expensive. Most churches have free classes, free worship services, free Bible studies. All God requires is 10% of what we make, and it's not that much. A study Bible can cost you a lot for the most extensive versions, but you can get a good study Bible that's fairly understandable for around $30. And if one translation doesn't suit you, there are dozens of translations, saying the same thing, in various ways. Sometimes churches also give away Bibles. If you're really not picky, you can sometimes find a Bible [[usually without study notes) for under $10.

If Scientology is the right thing, it needs to be affordable enough for average people to get it. Fortunately, Christianity does not require you to be rich. Which is good for me, because I am not rich.

Are there people who abuse Christianity to gain money? Yes, there have been in the past, and there still are. In fact, the Bible speaks of false prophets. But you don't have to follow those false prophets. Christianity deals with the heart. God tells us to give 10% of our income, which is a small amount, and he gives us back so much more. If you feel in your heart that you should give more, then give it. But no amount of money will erase your sins. Only a repentant and contrite heart and sincere sorrow for what you have done will bring you salvation. And once you have been forgiven, that sin is gone. The consequences may still be there, but it's gone from God's record.

I know to non-christians this sounds silly. However, Scientology is not like Christianity. Christianity is a free gift. Yes, God wants us to give our 10% and he wants us to help others. However, you don't have to pay thousands of dollars to be saved. Salvation is free. And Christian literature is cheap. Churches sometimes give away Bibles. Even if you want to buy a Bible, they're fairly cheap. And there are many versions to help you understand what you are reading. If you leave Scientology, they have records of your deepest secrets. You can tell people in your Christian church about personal things, but you don't have to. Yes, Catholics have confession. Even then, I wouldn't be too worried about the priest spilling the beans. I'm not Catholic myself, though.

I know some see all religions as a cult, but most are not. Have there been Christian cults? Yes. However, that doesn't make all Christian churches into cults. That would be like saying that Michigan Central Station is a representation of every block in Detroit. That's not the case. It's generalizing. As people, we like to generalize, but generalizations are often not fair.

Also, Scientology apparently condones retaliation against those suppressing Scientology. Christianity does not condo retaliation. While Christianity supports being persistent in spreading the Gospel, The Bible also says that we will face persecution, and that we need to turn the other cheek from it. While Scientology is saying to destroy the homes of those who suppress Scientology, Christianity is saying to pray for them, and do your best to be nice to them and show them the love of Christ.

Are Christians a good representation of Christ? No, not usually, unfortunately. However, that doesn't make Christianity and the Bible any less valid, nor does it turn Christianity into a cult. To say that all of Christianity is a cult is ignorant and laughable.

Thank you defending what I think shouldn't have to be defended: my right to worship God [[in an "organized religion"). Scientology is not an organize religion, it is an organized scam that traps people. Show me how the Catholic Church is a scam. Me donating a dollar or two at church is my choice, they can't and don't make me, but Scientology does.

[DetroitDad]

g-dub... I'm really worried about some groups in the future of this country, should things get excessively worse. Imagine many more people than there are now loosing their home and jobs, and imagine that many of those people are middle or upper class. Many of those people might just start thinking; "what happened? I'm a hard working and God fearing American. Where are our leaders and where is God?", it's time for even more change". Those are the times that nuts like Hitler are able to sneak their way into power. They take advantage of people like that.

This scenario may or may not be far off the scale of possibility, but regardless, it probably is something worth keeping in mind in the coming years, should things get worse.

[DetroitDad]

I could go all day comparing religions, but such discussions are usually better on a one on one basis when you know the person. This kind of environment fosters the need to save face, or encourages arguments between extremes. My opinion on Scientology and any other religion is; go and read up on it yourself before you choose. Please never stop asking questions. I think that is what really gets to the people that don't believe. It's not the beliefs as much as the blindly following of what often ends up a wolf in sheep's or Shepard's clothing, and the pushing and recruiting of those moral/religious values on others for the wolf.

Well that, and this.

[LeannaM]

There's nothing wrong with asking questions in Christianity. The Bible encourages us to examine our faith, and it does say to be wary of following people rather than following God. No one is above making a mistake. I know some Catholics think the Pope is infallible. Personally, I don't think anyone is infallible. Anyway, we all doubt sometimes, but I know that when I take a step back and examine my life, my life would not be the same without God.

And sometimes blind faith is necessary, but when you take a leap of faith for God, he will reward you.

Personally, I have seen God do great things for my family and others in my church. It's hard to deny what I have witnessed myself. Some may call it coincidence, but after so many coincidences, you have to acknowledge that there is something greater as work here.

There's a time for reflection and a time for questions. Everyone doubts. And there is nothing wrong with asking questions. However, I find that even when I doubt, I always come back to the fact that God is there, and I have seen it in my own life. Others obviously don't understand my experiences, and I don't understand the experiences of others. But my experiences in my young life have taught me that God exists, he's real, and he's listening.

[Downtown diva]

It's funny ...as crazy as Scientology is and as openly mocked for it's ridiculousness, no one seems to have problem with virgin births and worshiping a jewish zombie.

i think that it is terrible that you are all making fun of a religion. just because we dont believe in what they do doesn't make them wrong.

[DetroitDad]

Doubt... in my opinion, God would want us to ask questions, to learn how to allow each other to be free. He would not lead us into a situation where we follow a wolf and take a life.

The Crucifixions of the Catholics, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, and 9/11 are what happen in the absence of doubt. Those things are what some atheists see when they see religion. I get it, you know? It's clear that religion has a tendency to be a vehicle that evil can easily take ahold of.

[Blarf]

That's too bad.

Why's that?

[dtowncitylover]

Why's that?

I understand your, I assume, distrust and disklike of organized religion, but Scientology is not a religion. The Roman Catholic Church has 1 billion members on earth in which it tries it's darndest to shephard them and care for them. But we are human and we make mistakes.

Scientology is a cult. A fad for the current day and swindles people into believing silly psyscho tests will help them through life.

It's just sad you equalize it's members. One is trying to find God's will for him/her. The other is trying out the latest fashion because Travolta or Cruise are members.

[Gannon]

Correction, the Catholic Church has that many 'baptized and confirmed', then certainly MANY fewer that are members...active in any parish even by the minimum of merely going to mass on Christmas and Easter.

But they aren't talking about that...nah, it wouldn't work for ANY of their agendas.


What does it TAKE to get ex-communicated these days?!

[dtowncitylover]

Correction, the Catholic Church has that many 'baptized and confirmed', then certainly MANY fewer that are members...active in any parish even by the minimum of merely going to mass on Christmas and Easter.

But they aren't talking about that...nah, it wouldn't work for ANY of their agendas.


What does it TAKE to get ex-communicated these days?!

Would you also say that about the 1 billion Muslims? What about those who don't take the pilgrimage or don't keep halal? Maybe there's only about 700 million Muslims. Whether you like it or not, those who were baptized Catholic, are Catholic, and those who were born Muslim are Muslim. And even those that have Jewish mothers, but may not have grown up with Judaism, are Jewish by their mother.