Woman held in Grandson's Shooting, says she was 'afraid'

[softailrider]

Richard, apparently the gun that was purchased by the woman in question doesn't have much of a kick and she did take some lessons.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/n...x/-/index.html

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Could have sworn I read that it was a .40................

[Richard]

Could have sworn I read that it was a .40................

Yes in the link provided at the first post "Hoffman's grandmother, 74-year-old Sandra Layne, came to the front door with a .40-caliber Glock handgun in her right hand."

Either way neither one provides enough stopping power with one shot. IMHO

Unless she was useing the plastic pratice rounds.

[iheartthed]

This is starting to sound like pre-meditated murder.

[Meddle]

This is starting to sound like pre-meditated murder.

Possibly, but why?

Out of anger or hate?

Or maybe as a pre-emptive strike? Had the kid been abusive in the past and was she afraid he might be again? Did she do it to prevent further abuse? Was she afraid she might not have the ability to defend herself at another time?

Consider the story behind the movie "The Burning Bed". A woman who had been repeatedly abused by her husband intentionally killed him in his sleep one night. She was arrested, tried and acquitted.

[iheartthed]

Possibly, but why?

Out of anger or hate?

No idea. There are a lot of details missing. Maybe he was doing something she didn't agree with?

Or maybe as a pre-emptive strike? Had the kid been abusive in the past and was she afraid he might be again? Did she do it to prevent further abuse? Was she afraid she might not have the ability to defend herself at another time?

Consider the story behind the movie "The Burning Bed". A woman who had been repeatedly abused by her husband intentionally killed him in his sleep one night. She was arrested, tried and acquitted.

If she was being abused by the grandson then the logical step would have been for her to send him to Arizona with his parents... Or at the very least to have alerted his parents of a problem. Instead, from what has been written in the media so far, she bought a gun and learned how to shoot it. Sounds like premeditated murder without someone willing to go on record to substantiate a history of domestic disturbances.

[jcole]

Firing 8 to 10 bullets at an unarmed 17 year old kid would indicate, to me anyway, a great deal of resentment and possibly hatred. Maybe it was something to do with the divorce between her daughter and son in law that wasn't being addressed with them so she took it out on the kid.

[softailrider]

This is starting to sound like pre-meditated murder.

And a little bit like an assassination.

[Meddle]

If she was being abused by the grandson then the logical step would have been ...

To you and I and most every other rational adult. But we can't know how she was thinking unless she tells us, if she's able to. Somebody else mentioned dementia up-thread. We'll only know what the press prints.

[softailrider]

[QUOTE=Richard;321256]Yes in the link provided at the first post "Hoffman's grandmother, 74-year-old Sandra Layne, came to the front door with a .40-caliber Glock handgun in her right hand."

Either way neither one provides enough stopping power with one shot. IMHO

Unless she was useing the plastic pratice rounds.[/QUOT

Even if it was a 9mm, she had to have shot him at very close range. I'm making an assumption she had very little experience with firearms. I've known some 70 year old's who can barely aim the remote control for the TV. If the shooting was at rooms length, I don't think she would have hit the target 8 out of 10 times, regardless of the caliber of the handgun.

The kid surviving long enough to make a phone call after being shot several times leads me to believe pistol used was a 9mm. From what I've read in the past you get hit by a .40, you go down.

[Meddle]

From what I've read in the past you get hit by a .40, you go down.

Unless........

But we can't go there since we haven't heard anything about the Tox Screen yet.

[iheartthed]

To you and I and most every other rational adult. But we can't know how she was thinking unless she tells us, if she's able to. Somebody else mentioned dementia up-thread. We'll only know what the press prints.

Dementia doesn't really follow from the details released in the media. She doesn't own a gun so she goes to buy one a month ago. Doesn't know how to shoot so she takes lessons. These are decisions she made deliberately over an extended period of time. She was planning. I don't think that's a characteristic of dementia.

[jcole]

Dementia doesn't really follow from the details released in the media. She doesn't own a gun so she goes to buy one a month ago. Doesn't know how to shoot so she takes lessons. These are decisions she made deliberately over an extended period of time. She was planning. I don't think that's a characteristic of dementia.

Also, she's only 74, not in her 80's or 90's. A lot of people in their 70's are still quite able to work, drive and take care of themselves.

[7miledog]

She was pissed he wouldn't run spice for her at his "alternative" school so she had to make an example out of him. Everyone knows not to f*** with her now. Seriously, this explanation is as realistic as some of the speculation on this board. Let's wait til the facts come out.

[SteveJ]

The Grandma will be found not guilty. She took care of a druggie punk son that had everything handed to him but he wanted to smoke k2.

[Gannon]

In a panic, it would not be tough to pull the trigger of a Glock just so...at its 2/3rds fire point...and let off a quick five or six rounds.

Just like in the movies, though, the bad guy kept walking after a few shots...she had NO idea she made any hits, likely...so she makes sure he doesn't have any ability to get his own weapon and return fire.

Who knows what was in her mind...or in her conditioning of what to expect of a 'drug addict'. I've heard too many times of so-called violent weed smokers. Those don't exist. Anytime any official tries to tie those concepts together...they lose all credibility in my book.

But ever since Reefer Madness, someone has wanted most of us to fear the weed. Fear those who dare to smoke it.

Sincerely...

[kenp]

She had a lot of ways to get him out of her life that wouldnt have resulted in killing him. It was planned, coordinated and done in fashion that made sure he wasnt going to survive.

[jcole]

In a panic, it would not be tough to pull the trigger of a Glock just so...at its 2/3rds fire point...and let off a quick five or six rounds.

Just like in the movies, though, the bad guy kept walking after a few shots...she had NO idea she made any hits, likely...so she makes sure he doesn't have any ability to get his own weapon and return fire.

Who knows what was in her mind...or in her conditioning of what to expect of a 'drug addict'. I've heard too many times of so-called violent weed smokers. Those don't exist. Anytime any official tries to tie those concepts together...they lose all credibility in my book.

But ever since Reefer Madness, someone has wanted most of us to fear the weed. Fear those who dare to smoke it.

Sincerely...

According to the reports, she didn't fire the shots in one burst; he was hit by two when he called 911 and she fired more into him while he was on the phone and then the police heard shots when they got there

[Gannon]

According to the reports, she didn't fire the shots in one burst; he was hit by two when he called 911 and she fired more into him while he was on the phone and then the police heard shots when they got there

I know. That is exactly how the average zombie attack goes down in the movies, too. Like I said, you don't know what she has been conditioned to believe happens when someone is shot.

You don't get that in the first two lessons at Target Sports.

None of us get it from the movies.

And very few of us have had to suffer seeing it in real life.

I have a Glock 9mm, and know I can shoot the middle out of any paper target with an entire 15-shot magazine at nearly any distance under the worst situations I could fantasy myself into...but still have no hint of what I'd do if a situation happened.

You train to learn your reaction and to gain muscle memory...again, AFTER the first couple of lessons where they teach you to load the thing, point, and shoot.

I'm not defending her...there was more than a little pent-up rage. I'm sure more than a few grandparents have a feel for her lashing out.

[Buy American]

"It's unpredictable," said Sabbota. "His probation officer said in a report that because of the finding and his use, Jonathan posed a danger to himself and others in the community."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz1vo8H8R1D

[cmubryan]

Drugs are terrible and truly change people. I watched my best friend go from being an active, fun kid to a desperate drug addicted man over the course of 10 years from 1998 to 2008, ultimately killing himself in midtown Detroit from a heroin overdose. This is of course after being in jail several times for stealing from his parents and drug posession. I was always a little nervous that he had the ability to come after my family or me to get money, that is how desperate he got at times. I would get random calls after not hearing from him for months, begging for money. Worse, he showed up at my apt knocking on the door for hours.

If I had to guess, I bet this kid was threatening his grandma and she felt things were so out of control that she needed to protect herself. Maybe she didn't want to admit to his parents that things had gotten that bad. Maybe things finally got to the point where she couldn't take his threats any more that she felt she needed to defend herself. Finally, some action or threat was made by the grandson that caused her to feel the need to fire a gun and as she was doing this she couldn't control her anger any more and just kept going.

[kryptonite]

There is a little more background in this article: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...ndson-in-march

This morning I heard on the radio news that the teenager had been acquainted with or friends with Tucker Cipriano, and that the Cipriano killing/attacks had frightened the grandmother a great deal.

[Gannon]

There is a little more background in this article: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...ndson-in-march

This morning I heard on the radio news that the teenager had been acquainted with or friends with Tucker Cipriano, and that the Cipriano killing/attacks had frightened the grandmother a great deal.

That might be a wee bit o' the Telegraph/Telephone game...I heard it as only linked or acquainted in the grandma's mind, amplified by her fears from the reporting of it on the news.


She might've known he was smoking something, and imagined weed and this K2 stuff have similar side effects. They said they found weed and a scale in his room. So since he could get the real stuff, all talk about the 'fake' weed is likely moot.


It is a modern tragedy. Who of us wasn't a rebellious kid going from senior year to college?! I don't buy that he was actually dangerous, but DO accept the grandmother feared he was.

In the end, she will be found to have acted from her delusions, magnified and amplified by the modern media.


<sigh>

[kryptonite]

I found the news article where the radio report I heard must have gotten the information about the Hoffman/Cipriano link. http://www.freep.com/article/2012052...text|FRONTPAGE

[Hypestyles]

definitely a bizarre case.. a tragic episode..

[SWMAP]

Hoffman and cipriano attended the same Farmington Hills Alternative High School. Both were seniors. Doubtless they knew each other.

Have you read what Cipriano was capable of?