Woman held in Grandson's Shooting, says she was 'afraid'

**jt1** · May-22-12, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

Jeez....get your facts straight before opening your ignorant mouth jt1. I am not the author of that phrase.

I'm aware of that but it certainly appears to be the root of your sympathy. In addition, you ran with it and stated, "I do have compassion for this "old white grandma" in Oakland County." Before you start calling people ignorant you need to look in the mirror [[and read the board posting guidelines as this is clearly not acceptable).

If you can state one reason why this murderer gets so much sympathy then I may consider that it isn't due to race. So far you have not stated a valid reason why she gains more sympathy from you than other murderers.

What other murderers are you talking about? The ones in Detroit who would rather shoot you than look at you? The ones who are lurking behind garbage cans ready to pounce on unsuspecting women and children and pastors? The gang bangers who want to prove themselves and their manhood? Are those the murderers you want me to have compassion for?

I am not asking you to have compassion for any murderer. I am asking why you choose to be compassionate for this murderer while taking a hard line with others. As far as I'm concerned all murderers are garbage and deserve to die. This is independent of race, age, status as a grandmother, etc.

The issue lies in your picking and choosing which murderers you feel sorry for. If you can be consistent and lump her in with the other scumbags then we would get along swimmingly.

**jt1** · May-22-12, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

Absolutely. It shows his mentality about snitching and not to do it. In the meantime, his grandmother [[who I had sympathy for) was upset about losing her bible, and most of her belongings and this a$$hole publically shows everyone that he doesn't give a damn about her or anyone else. No double standard, just common sense.

No more from me on this thread regarding this grandma.

So wearing a T shirt makes one garbage but murdering someone elicits your sympathy. Gotcha. Way to be consistent.

Buy American · May-22-12, 12:51 PM

jt1...apologies for the "ignorant" remark, although mild in comparison to many other nasty comments from many others made on this forum...I will use unenlightened next time.

**jt1** · May-22-12, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

jt1...apologies for the "ignorant" remark, although mild in comparison to many other nasty comments from many others made on this forum...I will use unenlightened next time.

The change of word does not change the intent[[although I'll be happy to compare academic credentials). I do see that you are unwilling to continue discussions of your hypocrisy. Can you tell me which murderers are scumbags and which are good people. You seem to have a clear idea of which murderers are OK and which are not.

Is it color, race, geography or just those that may look like your grandmother or mother are OK to commit murder?

**kenp** · May-22-12, 02:25 PM

The parents move to Arizona while the kid wants to go to EMU and finish school here. He begs them to let him stay with grama & gramps and they give in.
While living with the grandparents he gets in a fight with grandma and the cops are called. Then the 74 year old retired teacher with no criminal background decides to buy a pistol. Why? She didnt just snap and happen to see a gun and shoot, she planned this. Shot the kid 8 times, even after he calls 911.
If she was scared then after the first incident he should have been out of the house. Her resolution instead is to buy a gun, wow.
She must have had a serious bug up her ......
Also the kids Dad was the co-founder of Adam, the divorce lawyer for men. I always hear their commercials on the radio.

**Johnnny5** · May-22-12, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by kenp

The parents move to Arizona while the kid wants to go to EMU and finish school here. He begs them to let him stay with grama & gramps and they give in.
.

This part seems really odd to me. Why would a family who has a child so close to graduation up and move 3/4 of the way across the country? It's not as if the move was due to a difficult financial situation or forced by a job relocation [[The father just retired and by all accounts is fairly well off). Unless there are some undisclosed circumstances it seems like an awfully selfish act on the parents part.

**gazhekwe** · May-22-12, 02:57 PM

The parents are split, but both moved to AZ to be close for the sake of their other kids. Seems to me one of them could have waited til school year ended. I bet they really wish they had.

**Ray1936** · May-22-12, 03:06 PM

Boy, this thread sure got out of line over a tragic event all around.

Lighten up, gang!

**Hermod** · May-22-12, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

The change of word does not change the intent[[although I'll be happy to compare academic credentials). I do see that you are unwilling to continue discussions of your hypocrisy. Can you tell me which murderers are scumbags and which are good people. You seem to have a clear idea of which murderers are OK and which are not.

Is it color, race, geography or just those that may look like your grandmother or mother are OK to commit murder?

In fairness to BuyAmerican, I think he would feel the same way about any grandmother black or white who felt threatened by a grown grandson. Now as noted this case may be about dementia or other mental illness on the part of the grandmother. It may also be that she had reached the end of the road with a thug grandson that was forcibly taking money from her to buy drugs and who had threatened to kill her if she didn't take care of his drug needs. We don't know and have to let the investigation proceed. In the case of Rev Winans and his muggings, things are a lot more clear and uncomplicated from the outset.

SteveJ · May-22-12, 03:52 PM

I'm not a big fan of the unarmed argument. To me, if a guy that is UFC fighter threatens to beat me up and starts to attack me, I have every right to pull out a gun and kill him even if he isn't armed. So that goes out the window here. The kid can kill his grandma if he wanted too without a weapon. I think he was stealing money and threatening his grandma for cash to fuel his drug habit. Shame on the parents for dumping him on Grandma knowing full well he had issues with drugs and who knows what else. Like someone mentioned earlier, they could have just waited another year. Its not like they didn't have the financial means. The grandma went overboard but she probably lost it. Given her age and lack of record, I would not be surprised if she was acquitted when all the truth comes out.

**jt1** · May-22-12, 03:54 PM

I thought people here got upset whenever the 'blame the victim' game was played. Why is this different? A teenager is dead and his grandmother is given a pass and a number of theories why it's his fault is surfacing here.

**iheartthed** · May-22-12, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

I thought people here got upset whenever the 'blame the victim' game was played. Why is this different? A teenager is dead and his grandmother is given a pass and a number of theories why it's his fault is surfacing here.

Not only that but they make up some fantastic hypotheticals to justify their irrational opinions. A UFC fighter? Really??? Yeah, I'm sure that there are so many of those walking around the streets that everybody should just shoot first and ask questions later.

**gazhekwe** · May-22-12, 05:03 PM

Nothing indicates he was stealing from his grandparents. Even if he was, why not call Mom and tell her to come and get him? Plus 'you owe me $$ that he took'. Mom is said to visit every month. Makes no sense to buy a gun and shoot the kid. Worse yet, why keep on shooting him once he is mortally wounded? Why just keep on shooting and shooting him?

**Meddle** · May-22-12, 05:30 PM

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...083be9c40a29fc

AP) - A Michigan teen fatally shot by his grandmother had at least two run-ins with police, but a detective says they've yet to figure out what prompted last week's violence.

SteveJ · May-22-12, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Not only that but they make up some fantastic hypotheticals to justify their irrational opinions. A UFC fighter? Really??? Yeah, I'm sure that there are so many of those walking around the streets that everybody should just shoot first and ask questions later.

Well I wanted to get detailed because people like yourself are little drama queens. You act like nobody has gotten beat to death and just because someone is unarmed, they can't do damage. Yeah, if a big dude came up to me and started to attack me I would shoot. You on the other hand sound like you would get the shit beat out of you and then blame yourself for being white.

**softailrider** · May-22-12, 08:02 PM

That lady just bought the .40 caliber semi automatic. More then likely, she probably had zero experience with weapons. A .40 caliber is a fairly heavy duty round. She fired 10 shots and hit the kid 8 times. The shooting had to be at arms length, if it was across the room I don't think she could have hit him that many times.

**trotwood** · May-23-12, 08:30 AM

I just can't wrap my mind around this story. Obviously I'm terribly sorry for the loss of this young man's life. That in itself is tragic enough but the fact that his end came at the hands of his own grandmother is unbelivable to me. I won't judge the grandmother and her actions[[that's not for me to do) but I can't help but feel for her too. Whatever her motivation this is something that will haunt her&the entire family forever. Not only has this family lost the young man but they've also lost a mother,grandmother,wife,etc.
This is extremely tragic from all angles.
Having said all that I can't help but wonder what would drive a seemingly rationale woman to take this kind of action against her own grandson. It won't bring the young man back but I certainly hope details will emerge that will shed some sort of light on why this played out the way it has.

**kenp** · May-23-12, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by SteveJ

Yeah, if a big dude came up to me and started to attack me I would shoot. You on the other hand sound like you would get the shit beat out of you and then blame yourself for being white.

Wow, that sums up todays thinking. Today people bring guns to fights.
Its pathetic but thats the world we live in. And the above comment about being white is purely classless. Hope you dont shoot me for saying that.
The lady had other options, hundreds of other options. She went out and bought a gun and took care of business, now she has to pay for her actions.

**Danny** · May-23-12, 01:00 PM

Your kids need to LOVED first before teaching them survival. They don't come with instructions.

Take away the love away from the child's heart, it would become evil!

Take the evil away from the child's heart, it would become good.

**Richard** · May-23-12, 03:47 PM

In the old days it was not uncommon for somebody high on PCP to be shot multiple times and still keep charging.

Then what constitutes being shot? You have a old lady with a 40 cal weapon that has a bit of a kick so unless she goes to the range daily and stands firm and aims carefully there is no way for her or highly unlikely to rapidly fire a direct shot,so if a bullet grazed his arm he could be classified as being shot but hardly stopped,if you are a crappy shot you could easily shoot somebody 10 times without being deadly.What if he was on pain killers would he have stopped?

Fla SYG came about because there was an 80 year old man who was home invaded he was hiding in the closet with a shotgun and told the perps do not come in here I have a shot gun,they did not listen ,then it took him two years of court battles to clear himself of a plain self defense case.

So if you are a woman walking to you car and somebody comes up and trys to rape you or steal your purse SYG.

You are sitting in your car at a red light somebody comes up to you and tries to carjack you SYG.

You are walking down the street and are 5ft 130 lbs and somebody 6.2 250 lbs threatens to kick your butt SYG.

There have been a lot less road rage ,home invasions,and robberies sense SYG yes there have been more killings but for once it is on the side of the perpetrator that is being killed.

A neighborhood grandmother here was hospitalized for 30 days because her grandson had to pay his debt and she did not have the funds,so he beat the crap out of her to bad she did not have a means to protect herself.

**jcole** · May-23-12, 04:31 PM

Richard, apparently the gun that was purchased by the woman in question doesn't have much of a kick and she did take some lessons.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/n...x/-/index.html

The owner of the gun shop where Layne purchased the weapon said she did learn how to shoot."We do have instructors, like the lady in particular did take a couple lessons, too. So she learned how to use the gun, too," said Ray Jihad, of Target Sports.
It's a Glock 17, 9 millimeter pistol which holds 17 rounds in a magazine. Layne also purchased an EZ loader and some plastic bullets to practice shooting."Nine millimeters are simple to handle. They are going to have less recoil. They are going to have less of what people call a kick," said Jihad.

**detroitsgwenivere** · May-23-12, 04:51 PM

I know she is a senior and all, but just to throw in some food for thought: I could easily hit a 9.5 inch standard American type pistol target 8 out of 10 shots at 25 yds with a 9mm when I was 10.

Not to brag. Just sayin...

**canuck** · May-23-12, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

Your kids need to LOVED first before teaching them survival. They don't come with instructions.

Take away the love away from the child's heart, it would become evil!

Take the evil away from the child's heart, it would become good.

Well said Danny!

**Richard** · May-23-12, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Richard, apparently the gun that was purchased by the woman in question doesn't have much of a kick and she did take some lessons.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/n...x/-/index.html

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Thanks for the link.

But it also says "did not own her gun for more than a few weeks before the shooting."

It is one thing to point a gun in practice,take aim ,control your breathing and squeeze the trigger easy to do if you have the time and can relax.

Now be scared,out of breath probably shaking like a leaf and in an instance grab the gun and pull the trigger with one hand maybe and do it all knowing you are going to be taking a life.She did not have it long enough for instinct to kick in for rapid response.

That does not happen with two weeks of ownership,even most LEO are required to retake weapons training or qualification yearly if I am not mistaken.

I am not trying to justify what she did was right or wrong or even the state of mind she was in,it would be speculation ,I can just see the ten shot aspect as non importance in away because it takes a lot of practice to grab a firearm under duress and rapidly fire a deadly one shot.

**Richard** · May-23-12, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I know she is a senior and all, but just to throw in some food for thought: I could easily hit a 9.5 inch standard American type pistol target 8 out of 10 shots at 25 yds with a 9mm when I was 10.

Not to brag. Just sayin...

LOL But how many times did you shoot it before you got to that point.
put a 9" pie plate on your leg ,you could hit the target and not hit your leg or arm for that matter.

30 years ago I could hit a target from a mile away with a 50 cal also but it took heck of a lot more practice then a couple of weeks,and I have not done it in so long it probably would take a month of practice to do it again.