Report: Red Wings select architect for new 18,000-seat arena

**stinkytofu** · May-21-12, 01:24 PM

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...000-seat-arena

Hmmm...maybe the ball has finally started to roll?

**gameguy56** · May-21-12, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...000-seat-arena

Hmmm...maybe the ball has finally started to roll?

I really hope they design this with a potential pistons move in mind.

Occurrence · May-21-12, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

I really hope they design this with a potential pistons move in mind.

Not me. I really don't want another bland cookie-cutter arena [[which is probably what we are going to get) instead of an old retro-barn Olympia throwback.

**rb336** · May-23-12, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

Not me. I really don't want another bland cookie-cutter arena [[which is probably what we are going to get) instead of an old retro-barn Olympia throwback.

HKS' last NHL job was American Airlines Center, which I think is quite attractive - and would fit well with ford field and comerica

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/Dall...s/newindex.htm

**canuck** · May-23-12, 10:44 AM

[QUOTE=rb336;321171]HKS' last NHL job was American Airlines Center, which I think is quite attractive - and would fit well with ford field and comerica

Agreed. I like it better than a lot of the faceless arenas of late, including the Bell Center in my town which is faceless architecture as far I am concerned.
They also built the Bell Ctr on a city block that included old Windsor station and
a 19th century Canadian Pacific headquarters; they could have designed an awesome integration but didnt.

I hope thay can evoke some of the Olympia's character which is what you get in the AA Center in Dallas. I also like the openness of the street access on the AA, something usually missing in the sprawly southern cities in the past 50 years. If they design something as street friendly as this looks for the Wings, Pistons; they may actually help the smaller scale businesses on surrounding streets.

**Ltdave** · May-24-12, 04:24 PM

someone was mentioning this....

http://newolympia.blogspot.com/

Occurrence · May-25-12, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

HKS' last NHL job was American Airlines Center, which I think is quite attractive - and would fit well with ford field and comerica

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/Dall...s/newindex.htm

I'm not a big fan of that one. It looks like every other round oval arena, Kind of boring. I'd like a little more character and something unique. Make the place intimate with overhangs and such, bring people closer to the action. Modern retro.

I haven't been to many arenas in person, but I was lucky enough to get to the Igloo in Pittsburgh the last year it was open, and that arena was awesome. We had seats on one of the overhangs and it was amazing. I was literally looking almost straight down onto the ice.

**schulzte** · May-26-12, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Occurrence

I'm not a big fan of that one. It looks like every other round oval arena, Kind of boring. I'd like a little more character and something unique. Make the place intimate with overhangs and such, bring people closer to the action. Modern retro.

I haven't been to many arenas in person, but I was lucky enough to get to the Igloo in Pittsburgh the last year it was open, and that arena was awesome. We had seats on one of the overhangs and it was amazing. I was literally looking almost straight down onto the ice.

The overhanging balconies is something the new arenas are really missing, and if the Red Wings do nothing resembling what I drew up in the New Olympia plan [[I hope they do), I hope at least they employ the overhanging balconies. The pitch of the seating would need to be steeper, but bringing the balconies closer to the ice surface would make those tickets more valuable, make the arena louder, and make the venue distinctive.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

**stinkytofu** · May-21-12, 01:30 PM

Here is the original article.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/J...Red-Wings.aspx

Interesting...never been to Staples Center, but they did a great job in Columbus...

The responsibility of architect Alex Krieger, founding principal of Chan Krieger NBBJ and a Harvard professor of urban design, is to develop an entertainment district tied to a new arena in Detroit, similar to Nationwide Arena in Columbus and Staples Center in Los Angeles, sources said.

**AGinthe313** · May-21-12, 01:52 PM

All this time I thought the new hockey arena was batting clean-up for the Tigers.

**Hypestyles** · May-21-12, 03:08 PM

hopefully this will be all self funded, or get help from Ilitch's business contemporaries-- the city can't afford to get involved in bankrolling a sports stadium..

Re: Pistons, on a pure fantasy level I wouldn't mind a shared stadium in Detroit, but I figure Gores is happy with keeping the status quo in Auburn Hills [[and I'm sure L. Brooks will bend over backwards to keep it that way).. unless there's a several-year stretch of abysmal attendance, I don't see any kind of moves toward divesting from the Palace.. though who knows, maybe there could be a one-shot, pre-season exhibition game in the new Wings stadium whenever that is completed [[2014?)..

**mikeg19** · May-21-12, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

hopefully this will be all self funded, or get help from Ilitch's business contemporaries-- the city can't afford to get involved in bankrolling a sports stadium..

Re: Pistons, on a pure fantasy level I wouldn't mind a shared stadium in Detroit, but I figure Gores is happy with keeping the status quo in Auburn Hills [[and I'm sure L. Brooks will bend over backwards to keep it that way).. unless there's a several-year stretch of abysmal attendance, I don't see any kind of moves toward divesting from the Palace.. though who knows, maybe there could be a one-shot, pre-season exhibition game in the new Wings stadium whenever that is completed [[2014?)..

This doesn't get built unless it's self funded. The city can't even get people to support a $1 fee to enter Belle Isle, you think the pubic will support a new arena? I guess we will have to just sit back and wait in this, although I'm not sure about the reduction in seating from 20k at the Joe to 18k at this new arena. I'm going to assume the area that would have held those additional 2k people will be mid arena luxury boxes [[Palace like) so it'll most likely still top out over 20k. And unless this project has been designed, engineered, signed off on, and paid for, with a fleet of backhoes staged in the GCP parking garage that we all don't know about, an opening in 2014 is a bit of a pipe dream. This project is most likely 5-7 years out.

**401don** · May-21-12, 04:52 PM

Taxes to fund stadia are always achieved by taxing sins [[cigs & booze) or out-of-towners [[hotels, rental cars). There are many obstacles to any additional regional taxes at the moment such as taxes already existing for Cobo renovations, etc. but it is not totally outside the realm of possibility to get something if they can get the county or state to sign off as infrastructure improvements.

**Mark Smiles** · May-21-12, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Taxes to fund stadia are always achieved by taxing sins [[cigs & booze) or out-of-towners [[hotels, rental cars). There are many obstacles to any additional regional taxes at the moment such as taxes already existing for Cobo renovations, etc. but it is not totally outside the realm of possibility to get something if they can get the county or state to sign off as infrastructure improvements.

Infrastructure?

Like $50,000,000 to reroute the People Mover?

If the Ilitches can throw Million Dollar Pizza parties for Obama, they can pay for their own stinking arena.

Tax money for a new home for the Wings? Spare me.

**corktownyuppie** · May-21-12, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Taxes to fund stadia are always achieved by taxing sins [[cigs & booze) or out-of-towners [[hotels, rental cars). There are many obstacles to any additional regional taxes at the moment such as taxes already existing for Cobo renovations, etc. but it is not totally outside the realm of possibility to get something if they can get the county or state to sign off as infrastructure improvements.

It's not totally out outside the realm of possibility...I agree. But even though I'm generally someone who would support a regional tax for this sort of thing, the timing to ask for tax support couldn't be worse. Allen Park is seriously considering disbanding their police force and subcontracting it out to another entity. Troy is having to make cuts in their services or risk insolvency due to declining revenues. Detroit...you know the picture.

I won't totally rule it out, but I'm not sure that I could even support a new source of funding until we sort some of the bigger picture items in Detroit.

Now if you could get Canada to front all the capital costs, guarantee to cover any revenue shortfalls, and then have the M-1 group guarantee any necessary capital infusions over the next 10 years....you'll get my attention.

Sadly, even with those guarantees, we still have haters that have their hands over their ears for their respective projects.

SteveJ · May-21-12, 04:59 PM

Well here comes the trick. Make some fancy drawings and present them to the public and then start begging for money.

Occurrence · May-21-12, 05:08 PM

Someone here already posted some great designs for a barn style hockey arena is a thread a while back. I don't know if I could even find that thread unfortunately.

**Gistok** · May-21-12, 06:07 PM

One revenue source used for the Stadia was gas and oil lease money from drilling on state land. I can see this being an option for some funding for the new arena that doesn't come out of anyone's pocketbook.

We have to remember that this will NOT be Ilitch owned [[just like Comerica Park and Ford Field are owned by the county), even though the Ilitch's will likely foot the bill for the majority of a new arena. There are property tax disincentives to owning your own arena/stadium.

**DetroitPlanner** · May-21-12, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

One revenue source used for the Stadia was gas and oil lease money from drilling on state land. I can see this being an option for some funding for the new arena that doesn't come out of anyone's pocketbook.

We have to remember that this will NOT be Ilitch owned [[just like Comerica Park and Ford Field are owned by the county), even though the Ilitch's will likely foot the bill for the majority of a new arena. There are property tax disincentives to owning your own arena/stadium.

Then why did Bill Davidson make so much off of the Palace?

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · May-22-12, 12:01 AM

I don't see much chance at all of taxpayers cutting a check to assist in the building of the new arena/entertainment district. What the government [[city, county, state) might do is offer various tax breaks for the construction. They [[the gov't) would justify that as compensation for infrastructure improvements made in conjunction with the arena.

Unlike some people here, I have great respect [[even when I don't agree with him) for Ilitch. I think he's smart enough to know that if he asked for taxpayer money now: a) he would not get it, and b) he would look awful. At his age legacy is bound to be important to him, and he neither wants to be the man who takes his team away [[a la Walter O'Malley) or who contributes to bankrupting the city. I think he'll craft a plan for a landmark arena as a final Mike Illitch stamp on downtown.

I am very torn as to whether which of the 2 leading sites, Foxtown West or Temple East is better. Both have merit, and both would be an improvement. I will also take this chance to reiterate my theory that whichever one they choose for the arena, the other will be scooped up by Al Taubman for his legacy downtown mall/entertainment center. And I am sure they are coordinating with each other, and Dan Gilbert as well.

As for the Pistons, I hope they move downtown, but doubt that will happen anytime soon, unless Illitch shared ownership of the arena with Gores.

Anyway, I am happy to have this all to think about.

**gthomas** · May-22-12, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I don't see much chance at all of taxpayers cutting a check to assist in the building of the new arena/entertainment district. What the government [[city, county, state) might do is offer various tax breaks for the construction. They [[the gov't) would justify that as compensation for infrastructure improvements made in conjunction with the arena.

Unlike some people here, I have great respect [[even when I don't agree with him) for Ilitch. I think he's smart enough to know that if he asked for taxpayer money now: a) he would not get it, and b) he would look awful. At his age legacy is bound to be important to him, and he neither wants to be the man who takes his team away [[a la Walter O'Malley) or who contributes to bankrupting the city. I think he'll craft a plan for a landmark arena as a final Mike Illitch stamp on downtown.

I am very torn as to whether which of the 2 leading sites, Foxtown West or Temple East is better. Both have merit, and both would be an improvement. I will also take this chance to reiterate my theory that whichever one they choose for the arena, the other will be scooped up by Al Taubman for his legacy downtown mall/entertainment center. And I am sure they are coordinating with each other, and Dan Gilbert as well.

As for the Pistons, I hope they move downtown, but doubt that will happen anytime soon, unless Illitch shared ownership of the arena with Gores.

Anyway, I am happy to have this all to think about.

This type of layout for entertainment/retail in St. Louis can be use on the parking lot in from of Comerica Park, it will bring foot-traffic in that area not only on game days and is more appealing.

**Bham1982** · May-22-12, 07:41 AM

Good news, but there better not be a penny of taxes going to this. We have two decent arenas, both owned by billionaires. If they want improvements, they can pay for it themselves.

Neither team is leaving the region, even if the state tells them to screw themselves, and the econonic benefits of a new arena are no greater than those of an old one.

**Gistok** · May-22-12, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Good news, but there better not be a penny of taxes going to this. We have two decent arenas, both owned by billionaires. If they want improvements, they can pay for it themselves.

Neither team is leaving the region, even if the state tells them to screw themselves, and the econonic benefits of a new arena are no greater than those of an old one.

Certainly you've been on this forum long enough to know that the city owns JLA?

**JBMcB** · May-22-12, 08:01 AM

Of *course* they are going to use public funds to pay for a good chunk of this. It's standard operating procedure when building new arenas. If not the city, then the county or state will step in with funding.

This nonsense needs to stop. The government needs to get out of the entertainment business and start focusing on - oh I don't know - providing basic services, perhaps?

**p69rrh51** · May-22-12, 08:25 AM

[QUOTE=JBMcB;320934]Of *course* they are going to use public funds to pay for a good chunk of this. It's standard operating procedure when building new arenas. If not the city, then the county or state will step in with funding.

This nonsense needs to stop. The government needs to get out of the entertainment business and start focusing on - oh I don't know - providing basic services, perhaps?[/QUOI

YES!!! Although isn't this thread about the Wing's organization picking an architect for a proposed stadium? I am disappointed that they did not pick the local firm with plenty of experience in stadium design. Or maybe that firm did not want to deal with the Ilitch's penchant for not paying!