Detroiters shot on a Pontiac Party Bus observing a robbery?

[bailey]

You claim your not blaming the victim but you keep pointing out that they should have known better. That is blaming the victim, period. Granted it's only some of the blame, it's tasteless notheless.

Besides, maybe they didn't know any better. Maybe, like normal people, they wanted to go out and have fun without checking their latest made-up crime statistics? Your plan is for everybody to please stop going to Pontiac, and if you don't, you death will be somewhat diminshed as we judge you.

I accept that my comments may be interpreted as being insensitive. But there is entirely too much "sensitivity" around here and far to little accountability.

Did something random cause the guy to drop his bike and did the concrete his head hit cause the death? sure, but a helmet could have stopped it. I think everyone recognizes that it's a tragedy when it happens, but do we spend time cursing the hardness of the road deck? No, we generally talk about how wearing a helmet saves lives.... and here's an example of one. http://tinyurl.com/cpkhcyv

The vilolent crime stats aren't made up and pretending they are simply exacerbates the problem. Also, as pointed out above and in regards to a statement about it being "safe" vis a vis Detroit. This wasn't "green zone" Pontiac. This was off the beaten path..so to speak.

Again, I'm not trying to be dismissive, it's looking at the issue from a realistic, risk based assessment of the threats out there so people DON'T become victims in the first place. Something a lot of people don't do who should. To me , it seems a lot of that stems from the "normality" of terribly violent crime around here.

What do we take from these needless death? a) it's a tragedy and could happen to anybody, anywhere at any time; or, b) it's a tragedy, but there are just some places you are risking your safety to go no matter what.

[jt1]

I accept that my comments may be interpreted as being insensitive. But there is entirely too much "sensitivity" around here and far to little accountability.

Did something random cause the guy to drop his bike and did the concrete his head hit cause the death? sure, but a helmet could have stopped it. I think everyone recognizes that it's a tragedy when it happens, but do we spend time cursing the hardness of the road deck? No, we generally talk about how wearing a helmet saves lives.... and here's an example of one. http://tinyurl.com/cpkhcyv

The vilolent crime stats aren't made up and pretending they are simply exacerbates the problem. Also, as pointed out above and in regards to a statement about it being "safe" vis a vis Detroit. This wasn't "green zone" Pontiac. This was off the beaten path..so to speak.

Again, I'm not trying to be dismissive, it's looking at the issue from a realistic, risk based assessment of the threats out there so people DON'T become victims in the first place. Something a lot of people don't do who should. To me , it seems a lot of that stems from the "normality" of terribly violent crime around here.

What do we take from these needless death? a) it's a tragedy and could happen to anybody, anywhere at any time; or, b) it's a tragedy, but there are just some places you are risking your safety to go no matter what.

Just post 'The dumb bitch deserved it' and be done with it. You are essentially advocating that there should be no sympathy and we should blame anyone that is a victim of a crime in a bad neighborhood.

So in essence the following groups of people merit none of your sympathy [[even if they were only in the wrong p[lace at the wrong time):

People that live in high crime areas
People that travel to or through high crime areas [[I hope you or a loved one don’t get shot driving through Detroit. I’d hate to have to gloat about you or your loved one being ‘stupid’)
People that happen to be in an establishment that may have criminals or violent people. Does this also apply if you are in a rural Macomb County bar with some of the scumbag biker gangs that live there. The stats don’t indicate it is violent but if you are around known criminals?

Just so we can be clear on when we can be heartless pricks and blame the victim, what is the cutoff on # of violent crimes per 100,000 residents? Should we boil it down to certain neighborhoods or make it city wide [[Is it OK to be in Indian Village but not at Mack and Chalmers?) What is the cutoff on a place that is high crime or sketchy?

If say, I saw you walking in Detroit, could I beat the crap out of you [[I certainly wouldn’t so please don’t perceive it as a threat, just making a point) and pretty much state that it is your fault for being there?

A few barometers of my understanding of your rational based upon local news reports:

Obviously the parents of these kids should not have to go through this because they lived in OC: http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...s-many-claims-

Can we say these kids deserved it because they were clearly spending time with a crazy person, which we should know not do: http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...elf-say-police

Do these people deserve it because they live in Detroit [[and should the kids expect to deal with this because they and their parents live in Detroit): http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...orning-robbery

Should the victims of this lunatic just suck it up since they should have been smarter than to be in Flint: http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...rs-second-week


I’d really appreciate your rules on who brings it upon themselves and who is a victim.

Yep, it is a long rant but your lack of empathy and your lack of understanding why you are rubbing people the wrong was it exceptionally frustrating.

[ddaydetroit]

So what I am gathering from this thread [[baileyand Zacha341)if I go to some of my favorite dive bars Old Miami, Jumbos, Bronx, ETC and am the victim if an assault its my fault because I was in a bad neighborhood.

[Zacha341]

^^^^ Ummm, YOU need to go back and 'carefully' re-read all of my posts including the ones where I speak out about the judgement made relative to what the teen was doing that night [[as one poster assumed) etc. and the my summary on this specific case to one poster....

"Thank for summarizing this tragedy to where the rubber meets the road. We have a bold-faced, belligerent, blatant criminal trolling about robbing in the first instance, then shooting folks who found that behavior objectionable. That's the MAIN ISSUE! And the fact that a teen was involved only makes it additionally sad."

[Hypestyles]

since this happened in Pontiac/Oakland county, I wonder will this be resolved any faster than the detroit shootings? we'll see..

[brizee]

The alleged killers have been caught.

I just don't comprehend it. That's 4 families[[victims and murderers) destroyed.

Forever.

For nothing.

[compn]

for a pair of sunglasses, anyway.

[kenp]

Both guys will most likely spend the rest of their lives in jail.
And the victims families pay the real penalty, you can never really get over a lose like that.

[TKshreve]

http://www.freep.com/article/2012101...-Ellis-Pontiac

Adios'

[Hypestyles]

Uh.. is Anthony Ellis one of the perpetrators or is he among the deceased? Freep, you're slipping..

[Wheels]

Lerrick Myers, 20, and Anthony Ellis, 28, stood mute before Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Nanci Grant, who entered not guilty pleas for them
The pair are accused of robbing a man outside a Pontiac bar on May 13, and then opening fire on the bus when those inside tried to warn others of the robbery. Anthony Ellis, 28, and Shuntrice Sylvester, 19, died in the hail of bullets.


Murder suicide?

[TKshreve]

http://www.freep.com/article/2013051...s-murder-trial

Glad they caught up with these two. They deserve severe punishment.

[Honky Tonk]

http://www.freep.com/article/2013051...s-murder-trial

Glad they caught up with these two. They deserve severe punishment.

Assholes. 21 and 23, unbelieveable.

[jt1]

Has anyone noticed the local news stating things like this more often: "Prosecutors say Lerrick Myers, 21, of Pontiac and Craig Lewis, 23, formerly of Pontiac but now a resident of Taylor,"

It almost seems like they still have to remind people that the criminals, even though he lived in taylor really as from Pontica. Funny thing is I've only seen previous locations listed for ex Detroiters and ex Pontiacers. I'm curious why were someone used to live is relevant unless they are playing into an agenda.

[iheartthed]

Has anyone noticed the local news stating things like this more often: "Prosecutors say Lerrick Myers, 21, of Pontiac and Craig Lewis, 23, formerly of Pontiac but now a resident of Taylor,"

It almost seems like they still have to remind people that the criminals, even though he lived in taylor really as from Pontica. Funny thing is I've only seen previous locations listed for ex Detroiters and ex Pontiacers. I'm curious why were someone used to live is relevant unless they are playing into an agenda.

It's the opposite of white woman syndrome.

[TKshreve]

Has anyone noticed the local news stating things like this more often: "Prosecutors say Lerrick Myers, 21, of Pontiac and Craig Lewis, 23, formerly of Pontiac but now a resident of Taylor,"

It almost seems like they still have to remind people that the criminals, even though he lived in taylor really as from Pontica. Funny thing is I've only seen previous locations listed for ex Detroiters and ex Pontiacers. I'm curious why were someone used to live is relevant unless they are playing into an agenda.

Well the shooting took place in Pontiac, so maybe that would be the basis for the extra info.

Or the media know how divided this city is and loves to fuel the fire in criminal cases such as this.

Personally, I like to know where murderers are from and where they came from.

[jt1]

Well the shooting took place in Pontiac, so maybe that would be the basis for the extra info.

Or the media know how divided this city is and loves to fuel the fire in criminal cases such as this.

Personally, I like to know where murderers are from and where they came from.

There was recently a crime, I think, in Clinton Township. The article stated that someone was arrested and listed him as from Clinton Township, but previously from Detroit.

Nothing in the article implied any remote connection to the city, just bs jouralism continuing the divide

[Hermod]

There was recently a crime, I think, in Clinton Township. The article stated that someone was arrested and listed him as from Clinton Township, but previously from Detroit.

Nothing in the article implied any remote connection to the city, just bs jouralism continuing the divide

Same with veterans. A guy might have briefly been in service [[possibly boarded out in the first four months) twenty years ago, but if he commits a crime it is "ex-Marine arrested for armed robbery".

[Honky Tonk]

Same with veterans. A guy might have briefly been in service [[possibly boarded out in the first four months) twenty years ago, but if he commits a crime it is "ex-Marine arrested for armed robbery".

"Man bites dog", "Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle".

[Al Publican]

Curious what a New York City "stop and frisk" campaign would result in in Detroit? The jury is out for me on stop and frisk, but my guess is a lot of people would be removed from the streets of Detroit with such a campaign.

I lived in New Center off of 2nd during the infamous STRESS cop unit days. It seemed like a good plan with bad management.