Curious jury makeup in Bobby Ferguson's case.

**poobert** · May-12-12, 12:56 PM

I was on a jury when I was all of 19 years old. Returning a form, showing up, dressing professionally and being attentive isn't fucking rocket science. I wouldn't want some mental deficient on a jury if I were being charged with a crime.

**Danny** · May-12-12, 01:10 PM

Dave Bing on juror's dismissal on Ferguson's Trial.

"That female juror should have known better. Wear your street clothes in the street, but you wear your appropiate attire in society. We're not d$%#! mongels!"

**Wesley Mouch** · May-12-12, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

...Like I said, I don't know the answers. But I think it's totally reasonable to discuss whether a jury consisting of 1 person who shares the defendant's race is likely to be or not to be a representative jury of one's peers.

It is reasonable. I think we would be better served by reducing the focus.

That said, has anyone done a study on conviction rates in Detroit based on jury racial makeup recently?

And while I'm on the pulpit... what is our focus on peer groups solely racial. Your peers are usually of similar social standing -- but they are not clones of yourself. Race might vary, so does education, employment, politics, age, etc. Were these jurors all the same age as Ferguson? Why should we focus on racial peers and not education? Let's discuss this.

**corktownyuppie** · May-12-12, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Your peers are usually of similar social standing -- but they are not clones of yourself. Race might vary, so does education, employment, politics, age, etc. Were these jurors all the same age as Ferguson? Why should we focus on racial peers and not education? Let's discuss this.

Agreed. The public debate has not yet evolved to really look at issues of socio-economic class when considering questions of this nature. I think you're dead on here, and it's a shame that we haven't really come up with a productive way to incorporate these ideas into the discussion.

**Zacha341** · May-12-12, 02:00 PM

This is the same attire worn to interviews and the folks wonder why they are not hired. Oh well self-expression is more important sometimes.....

Originally Posted by Danny

Dave Bing on juror's dismissal on Ferguson's Trial.

"That female juror should have known better. Wear your street clothes in the street, but you wear your appropiate attire in society. We're not d$%#! mongels!"

**rjk** · May-12-12, 02:06 PM

"As for why she wouldn't look at the prosecutor, Willis, a mother of four, said it was part nerves and part irritation because she said she felt the prosecutors were sizing her up.
"They made me feel uncomfortable, that whole little desk did," she said, referring to the table where the prosecutors sat. "I just kept my eyes on the judge."

The above is from a Freep article.
A little desk made her uncomfortable?
It seems to me that the prosecutors were spot on in her dismissal.

**Hypestyles** · May-12-12, 02:20 PM

hopefully this will be resolved in a fair manner going forward and especially with the forthcoming kilpatrick case.. we'll see what happens..

**jtf1972** · May-12-12, 02:29 PM

Perhaps, it's a jury of his fiscal peers...

I'll put $20 on that, if there is an acquittal, there will be no talk from Ferguson about unfairness.

**Kevgoblue** · May-12-12, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

But God forbid I ever need to be sitting in the defendant's chair, I would like that an impartial jury not be made up of 12 people whose worldviews are in direct collision with my own. I don't know what's in the hearts and minds of the jury. And certainly race is not the sole source of one's worldview. But one can't deny that it's a factor.

Like I said, I don't know the answers. But I think it's totally reasonable to discuss whether a jury consisting of 1 person who shares the defendant's race is likely to be or not to be a representative jury of one's peers.

I couldn't care less the outcome of this case, but I was going to play devil's advocate and this sets the stage nicely. Seems like a lot of people want to dismiss the lack of racial diversity in the jury. But what do you think the response would be if there was a jury with 11 blacks in a controversial case with racial overtones? Say like for George Zimmerman.

**Kevgoblue** · May-12-12, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

And while I'm on the pulpit... what is our focus on peer groups solely racial. Your peers are usually of similar social standing -- but they are not clones of yourself. Race might vary, so does education, employment, politics, age, etc. Were these jurors all the same age as Ferguson? Why should we focus on racial peers and not education? Let's discuss this.

You are absolutely correct. When factored for other things, socioeconomics is most often the common denomonator when looking at personal character traits. Whether those be education, criminality, home ownership and upkeep, etc.

**brizee** · May-12-12, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

I couldn't care less the outcome of this case, but I was going to play devil's advocate and this sets the stage nicely. Seems like a lot of people want to dismiss the lack of racial diversity in the jury. But what do you think the response would be if there was a jury with 11 blacks in a controversial case with racial overtones? Say like for George Zimmerman.

I imagine the situation would play out like this.

Also methinks this might be how Ferguson's trial is going.

**corktownyuppie** · May-13-12, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

I imagine the situation would play out like this.

Also methinks this might be how Ferguson's trial is going.

Absolute genius. lol

**mam2009** · May-14-12, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

"In court records, Chambers noted that the Eastern District of Michigan has “traditionally and historically had issues” with the under-representation of African Americans in the jury pool."

Golly gee Ward, can't they just get more African Americans to move into the Eastern District so they can prevent this problem of "under representation" in the future. Race Race Race... Race Race Race... man this stuff gets old. This is wrapped securely around the axle of Detroit and the country in general. Heck I'd say Whitey is under represented in Detroit but know one screams injustice about that. Sorry for the rant...

I am African-American and have been a registered and active voter since I turned 18 20 years ago and I have never received a summons for jury duty.

**Hermod** · May-14-12, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Like I said, I don't know the answers. But I think it's totally reasonable to discuss whether a jury consisting of 1 person who shares the defendant's race is likely to be or not to be a representative jury of one's peers.

If I was charged with a crime in the city of Detroit, I would expect that eleven or twelve of the jurors would be black. If I was charged with a crime in Da Yoopee, I would expect eleven or twelve of the jurors to be white. These are the "peers" of the community. We don't tailor the jury to the race of the defendant.

**nativegirl** · May-14-12, 07:15 AM

Ditto! I'm good and Black and have yet to be called for jury duty for either Federal or local courts. I am a registered Detroit voter with a valid Driver's Licences. I have not received a survey either. The last time I received a jury summons was for the old Recorder's court and we all know how long that court has been abolished by good ole Egghead Engler!

**Scottathew** · May-14-12, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

If I was charged with a crime in the city of Detroit, I would expect that eleven or twelve of the jurors would be black. If I was charged with a crime in Da Yoopee, I would expect eleven or twelve of the jurors to be white. These are the "peers" of the community. We don't tailor the jury to the race of the defendant.

But he wasn't charged with a crime in Detroit. He's charged with a federal crime in the Eastern District of Michigan.

If he wants a black-er jury, then next time he needs to commit a crime this isn't prosecuted at the federal level.

**Hermod** · May-14-12, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by 48091

But he wasn't charged with a crime in Detroit. He's charged with a federal crime in the Eastern District of Michigan.

If he wants a black-er jury, then next time he needs to commit a crime this isn't prosecuted at the federal level.

That is right. The jury pool will look like the voter rolls in whatever jurisdiction the court has. What is the racial makeup of the Eastern District? Is it more than 15% A-A?

**Zacha341** · May-14-12, 08:28 AM

Um, duh - you think! Hah! Excellent POINT!

Originally Posted by 48091

If he wants a black-er jury, then next time he needs to commit a crime this isn't prosecuted at the federal level.

**Scottathew** · May-14-12, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

That is right. The jury pool will look like the voter rolls in whatever jurisdiction the court has. What is the racial makeup of the Eastern District? Is it more than 15% A-A?

I don't have exact statistics, but here's a map, the US Michigan Eastern district is in the color green:

**Wesley Mouch** · May-14-12, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by 48091

But he wasn't charged with a crime in Detroit. He's charged with a federal crime in the Eastern District of Michigan.

If he wants a black-er jury, then next time he needs to commit a crime this isn't prosecuted at the federal level.

He hasn't been convicted yet, so we don't know if he committed a crime -- until the evidence is heard and a verdict rendered by a jury of his 'Eastern District of Michigan' peers.

I do find it curious that several black forum members haven't been called for jury duty. The process involves voter lists, and taking something like every third or eighth name. Does anyone know the exact methods...?

**Zacha341** · May-14-12, 10:54 AM

I used to get called some 20 or so years ago. I've worked and volunteered for the city department of elections, and a registered voter. I never get called now. Not sure why....

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I do find it curious that several black forum members haven't been called for jury duty. The process involves voter lists, and taking something like every third or eighth name. Does anyone know the exact methods...?

**Scottathew** · May-14-12, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

He hasn't been convicted yet, so we don't know if he committed a crime -- until the evidence is heard and a verdict rendered by a jury of his 'Eastern District of Michigan' peers.

I do find it curious that several black forum members haven't been called for jury duty. The process involves voter lists, and taking something like every third or eighth name. Does anyone know the exact methods...?

Yes, he has not been convicted in a court. However, based off everything I've seen, I'm sufficiently convinced to convict him in my mind.

As for jury duty, I've never been called in either. I've had a drivers' license since I was 16, and I've been a registered voter since I was 18. I'm now in the neighborhood of 30. I am white.

I've always wanted to be called in at least once, I'm very curious to find out what the process is like.

**downtownguy** · May-14-12, 01:57 PM

Random selection of candidates to be called for jury duty used to be based solely on voter registrations. However, many years ago that was changed. It appears the federal courts use a hybrid of voter registration and driver's licenses, while Michigan district courts go only with driver's licenses and State of Michigan personal ID cards.

From the Federal Courts website:
Potential jurors are chosen from a jury pool generated by random selection of citizens' names from lists of registered voters, or combined lists of voters and people with drivers licenses, in the judicial district.

From the courts.michigan.gov/ website:

Once a year the Secretary of State will compile a list of citizens who may be eligible to serve on a jury from a list that identifies citizens who possess a driver’s license or State of Michigan identification card.

**Meddle** · May-14-12, 02:00 PM

In the 25+ years I was in the area and eligible, I was never called for Federal jury duty. I was called for Wayne County once. The Defense attorney asked if I knew or socialized with any cops. When I said Yes, I was excused.

I don't know what they use to select jurors for Federal Court, but I'm not sure it's Voter Registration.

**Det_ard** · May-14-12, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

He hasn't been convicted yet, so we don't know if he committed a crime -- until the evidence is heard and a verdict rendered by a jury of his 'Eastern District of Michigan' peers.

I do find it curious that several black forum members haven't been called for jury duty. The process involves voter lists, and taking something like every third or eighth name. Does anyone know the exact methods...?

I've been eligible for close to 30 years, never been called. My wife has been called four times in the last ten years. I have no idea why. BTW, we're white.