Snyder in Talks with Canadians in Windsor About New Bridge

[Richard]

Canada will never allow the Ambassador to be spanned into there because it makes the trucks run through the city.

According to Mr, Crain they do have an option and what is wrong with this option?

Maybe a possible compromise is for the Ambassador Bridge to pay for a short extension of the Windsor Essex Parkway [[WEP) from its presently planned end at the DRIC Canadian Plaza to the Canadian plaza of the Ambassador Br. That would take the trucks off the local streets of Windsor.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5121

Ambassador Bridge "monopoly"?Read the numbers here and you will have a more educated outlook.Just look at the numbers and ignore the overtones.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5895

Matty owns the tunnel also? Not according to this .

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5791

RE: Port Mann bridge

As for the second, the government's own financial statements indicate the corporation will not turn a steady profit until the last year of the current decade.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...2-211438e34e54

Self-Supporting Debt
A bond, especially a municipal bond, where the coupons and principal are paid with funding from the project the debt seeks to finance. It may be used, for example, to build a hospital or a toll bridge, and bondholders are repaid with the revenue the hospital or toll bridge derives. Self-supporting debt is usually slightly higher risk than a general obligation bond because if the project fails to generate revenue, the bond will default. However, self-supporting debt is generally low risk and highly liquid.

http://financial-dictionary.thefreed...pporting+Debts

Private toll roads are built cost effectively and most have a life span of ten years before resurfacing so any future proceeds coming back to the community will never appear.

Do I believe that toll roads and bridges can be self supporting? Yes I do because all they have to do is raise the toll to increase revenue to make up for shortfalls .

But at what point does it end? If you have less traffic and need to raise tolls to make up for it do you not get into the same situation as if you lose taxpayers so you raise taxes on the remaining taxpayers to make up the difference.Detroit is a prime example of that.

When the tolls are raised just like fuel costs the difference is passed on to the consumer when it comes to moving goods.So who is really paying for the loss?

If you do a Yahoo string search of "self supporting toll bridges" you will see that all across the country just about every toll road is increasing tolls to make up for less demand.

Do you reject the obligation that Canada promises to be responsible for any shortfall?

Yes in a way I do because I have not heard from the Canadian taxpayers saying that they would feel comfortable covering the losses should they incur and they would be the ones that could sway that promise.If they say no way who then foots the bill?

FTR I do not appose the bridge theory on its own in the future ,I appose it now because of Areo being attached to it.

Because if the bridge gets built now and Areo comes into play it will be the largest disinvestment within the city of Detroit sense "white flight" it will be in direct conflict with everything good happening now in the city when it comes to diversification.

Look at the players.

GE: Has already spent millions on it and by putting GE Capital at the disposal of future potential business players in Tech,Bio,alternative energy,and research it will undermine all the recent start ups within the city and create a very un leval playing field by stacking the deck against future start ups.

But they need help politically.

Second player.

Ann Arbor Spark which is a VC firm backed by GE.

Mr Snyder is the founder of Ann Arbor Spark.VC funding firm
Mr. Dillion State treasurer served as vice president of GE Capital and as president of the Detroit Steel Co.
Michael Finney Ceo of Ann Arbor Spark became Ceo of MEDC.

Talk about stacking the deck.

So to me and my speculation it appears as if there is another reason to push for the bridge to be built and it appears like there is a big conflict of interest involved in it.

There is a write up in Crains today about the state wanting to help with Detroit airport , I have not read the write up but it does kinda fall into place,why all of the sudden the interest?

So I have personally two questions for the Canadians on this board and they all seem to be level headed so far.

#1 , Do you feel comfortable supporting the bridge knowing that you are paying for it with no return?

#2 Do you feel comfortable paying for a bridge with your tax dollars knowing that the bridge is being put into play to make US private enterprise billions while getting you to pay for the bridge?

So like I posted previously it is not just an issue of a bridge there is a lot more at stake in the larger picture and it is hard to base a decision on just the bridge as a stand alone theory.

[corktownyuppie]

All good points and thought-provoking. Thank you for raising the level of discourse on this issue. Maroun soundbites were getting old. I'm inferring that you are against the Aerotropolis idea. Am I misunderstanding? And if so, why? Ann Arbor Spark is revered in Washtenaw County and has helped spur business after business as well as create a culture of entrepreneurialism that -- frankly -- Detroit lacks.

The aerotropolis has been a vision since the days of Detroit Renaissance, which is now Business Leaders for Michigan. I see their involvement in anything Detroit-related as a net positive, bringing with them access to capital and sorely lacking leadership and expertise to the city and the region.

[Wesley Mouch]

...<snip>
RE: Port Mann bridge

As for the second, the government's own financial statements indicate the corporation will not turn a steady profit until the last year of the current decade.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...2-211438e34e54
...<snip>...

That quotation is from a critic of the government. The article was about a dispute over how the bridge is classified and how the debt is to be recorded or shown. It has nothing to do with profitability.

Many investments require both capital debt and a few years of operating losses before profit. I don't see anything here that suggests that this bridge can't support itself.

And even if this bridge and a few others are in trouble, that doesn't really address the general case of whether one should investment in infrastructure anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer's existence proves that the human race is incapable of compassion.

[Richard]

All good points and thought-provoking. Thank you for raising the level of discourse on this issue. Maroun soundbites were getting old. I'm inferring that you are against the Aerotropolis idea. Am I misunderstanding? And if so, why? Ann Arbor Spark is revered in Washtenaw County and has helped spur business after business as well as create a culture of entrepreneurialism that -- frankly -- Detroit lacks.

The aerotropolis has been a vision since the days of Detroit Renaissance, which is now Business Leaders for Michigan. I see their involvement in anything Detroit-related as a net positive, bringing with them access to capital and sorely lacking leadership and expertise to the city and the region.

Areotropolis has worked well in other cities because they did not have much going for them to begin with.I do not believe as it stands it is not a good fit for Detroit because in its design as it stands now it will be a direct conflict with what is happening now or could happen in the future.

As an example or hypothetical situation lets use the Fisher body plant.

A potential business person says to the state , I want to research and make these widgets and my research shows that I can use the Fisher body facility to my advantage and make it cost effective ,so standard procedure would be to go to MEDC and say I am making this investment and employing x amount of workers,as they would in any state right or wrong to apply for what ever tax credits are available.

So MEDC says hey why do you not look over here in Areo we can help you get the building built utilizing tax credits ,we can help with start up funding and finance it all through GE capital using the tax credits as your down payments all in one neat little package.

What route would you take? meanwhile fisher body looses one more opportunity to be productive once again.

If the bridge is built without the Areo concept and free enterprise was allowed due course without a stacked deck then yes okay build the bridge and make it an enterprise zone.

They will have the power to direct investment into Areo verses the city or surrounding burbs.

culture of entrepreneurialism that -- frankly -- Detroit lacks.

I do not believe for one second that Detroit lacks entrepreneurialism, I believe it has been controlled and stymied by a government in place that creates more red tape,past pay to play,corruption,and now in this case Areo a complete lack of support by the city and state which all combined keeps creative juices at bay.

I think Detroit/Windsor probably has the highest concentration of intelligence and entrepreneurship potential in a variety of different ways verses many different cities that are specific in just one area so the base is there.

Areo is designed as a hub for transportation,Think Little Rock of the east,a hub for research,a hub for technology, so take everything diversified from the city and move it there? What happens to the city then and suburbs.

Spark or any other funder has done well in its realm but when it has the power to direct investment based on what and where they see fit verses public good and free enterprise then you have problems.

Remind you of anybody else that is a quasi private/gov enterprise within the city?

[Richard]

That quotation is from a critic of the government. The article was about a dispute over how the bridge is classified and how the debt is to be recorded or shown. It has nothing to do with profitability.

Many investments require both capital debt and a few years of operating losses before profit. I don't see anything here that suggests that this bridge can't support itself.

And even if this bridge and a few others are in trouble, that doesn't really address the general case of whether one should investment in infrastructure anymore than Jeffrey Dahmer's existence proves that the human race is incapable of compassion.

I think we can agree that the gov needs critics from time to time.

So what I would do is look at the numbers in the link I posted and if those numbers said yes it is feasible to build the bridge then to me it should be built by the US using taxpayer dollars as an infrastructure project.

But on the other hand sense it would be an international border project the burden should fall on the entire country,no difference then the Mexican border crossing as according to what we are told it would benefit the entire country in trade.

Because then it really does not matter it will be clear as day to the taxpayer,it will cost X amount of dollars to build then in 10 years give or take it will become self supporting so it becomes no longer a burden on the taxpayer,how much does it cost to cross from Mexico to the US?

[Wesley Mouch]

I think we can agree that the gov needs critics from time to time.

So what I would do is look at the numbers in the link I posted and if those numbers said yes it is feasible to build the bridge then to me it should be built by the US using taxpayer dollars as an infrastructure project.

But on the other hand sense it would be an international border project the burden should fall on the entire country,no difference then the Mexican border crossing as according to what we are told it would benefit the entire country in trade.

Because then it really does not matter it will be clear as day to the taxpayer,it will cost X amount of dollars to build then in 10 years give or take it will become self supporting so it becomes no longer a burden on the taxpayer,how much does it cost to cross from Mexico to the US?

I agree 100% this should be federal project. And I don't think there even should be a toll. Why are we debating the payback or toll revenues? By doing this, we are playing into Matty's hand.

[Anonymous]

I spent years as a municipal finance attorney and will weigh in when I have the time to read over the details, under the assumption that I'm not being presumptuous in weighing in.

Nonetheless, as I currently understand it, Snyder and the other US actors have basically leveraged the Canadians' desire to get this bridge built into a sweetheart deal for us [[Det, MI, and US).

[mikeg19]

I spent years as a municipal finance attorney and will weigh in when I have the time to read over the details, under the assumption that I'm not being presumptuous in weighing in.

Nonetheless, as I currently understand it, Snyder and the other US actors have basically leveraged the Canadians' desire to get this bridge built into a sweetheart deal for us [[Det, MI, and US).

It would appear so except for the Republican State Legislature. If you look past all of Matty's propaganda and posturing it seems like a pretty sweet deal for the U.S, and to be honest, Canada. The only loser in this equation is Matty, or so it would appear.

[Wesley Mouch]

It would appear so except for the Republican State Legislature. If you look past all of Matty's propaganda and posturing it seems like a pretty sweet deal for the U.S, and to be honest, Canada. The only loser in this equation is Matty, or so it would appear.

He's only a 'loser' if you mean the downgrade from extreme profitability to significant profitability.

He probably makes enough avoiding fuel taxes to stay quite happy.

[RO_Resident]

I agree 100% this should be federal project. And I don't think there even should be a toll. Why are we debating the payback or toll revenues? By doing this, we are playing into Matty's hand.

The bridge is most likely going to be packaged as a design/build/finance/operate concession. The projected toll revenues and payback period is critical for investors.

As far as AA Spark getting involved--I have a really hard time seeing why they would touch the project. The bridge is a) out of their geographic scope, b) out of their expertise, and c) require financing orders of magnitude larger than their typical project.

[mwilbert]

Matty owns the tunnel also? Not according to this .

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5791

I stand corrected. I should have remembered that isn't true. I still think it would be a bad idea for him to control both bridges though, as so much of the traffic can't use the tunnel.

I think it is obvious from the backups on the Ambassador that there should be another bridge. And I think it is obvious that a better connection to the bridge on the Canadian side would be desirable. The project makes sense on that basis without any possible Aerotropolis impact, and I don't really see how the Aerotropolis would have a negative impact on the city--do we really think these are similar locations competing for similar businesses? I don't.

In general I believe a healthier region is good for the city.

[corktownyuppie]

In general I believe a healthier region is good for the city.

A healthier region is much better for the city. But for you skeptics out there, then surely it's easy to see that a worsening region only makes it harder for the city to pool resources for a greater good.

The aerotropolis is a good idea. Brooks Patterson was vehemently against it for years, for the same reason why others have expressed doubt...that steering development into a concentrated area would likely mean less for Oakland County and more for Wayne County. But even he realizes that a healthier region benefits the O.C. as well.

I believe in free markets as well. But I also know that if we don't coordinate and plan together, what we will end up with is 6 stadiums in 5 cities. 20+ different "downtowns". No public transportation from the airport. This aerotropolis, if done right, will not just benefit Belleville, Romulus, etc. It will make Detroit relevant again to the rest of the US.

This stimulates population growth and economic expansion...all of which Metro Detroit is in desperate need.

[Gistok]

Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't the backups on the bridge more to do with Customs than the limited bridge roadway volume limits??

[Searay215]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but with all the so called Facts that have been stated on here, by so called experts as to all the advantages and proof that it won't cost the taxpayers a dime. Then why is a Vast majority of 148 elected officials in Lansing against it and ONLY the governor for it?

You'd think they'd want to do it according to all the info on here....I mean after all there is 148 of them and only a few of you? You guys should run for office......

Oh I can hear you people now.......it's the constituents that are against it and the legislators are afraid for their jobs.....sorry, that does not hold water. They have recently passed a flood of unpopular items.....Helmet law, Fireworks, taxing pensions....to name a few of the many.

Now if you will excuse me I have to get ready to go out to the boat. Have a great day!!!

[corktownyuppie]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but with all the so called Facts that have been stated on here, by so called experts as to all the advantages and proof that it won't cost the taxpayers a dime. Then why is a Vast majority of 148 elected officials in Lansing against it and ONLY the governor for it?

You'd think they'd want to do it according to all the info on here....I mean after all there is 148 of them and only a few of you? You guys should run for office......

Oh I can hear you people now.......it's the constituents that are against it and the legislators are afraid for their jobs.....sorry, that does not hold water. They have recently passed a flood of unpopular items.....Helmet law, Fireworks, taxing pensions....to name a few of the many.

Now if you will excuse me I have to get ready to go out to the boat. Have a great day!!!

Because sometimes what's popular doesn't always mean what's right.

[corktownyuppie]

p.s. jealous re: boat. another gorgeous day

[professorscott]

Because sometimes what's popular doesn't always mean what's right.

Let's be very frank. Legislators are opposed to the MDOT bridge project because Mr. Maroun's companies have paid them enormous sums of money to be opposed to it.

The vast sums he has spent on lobbying, advertising and campaign donations are well known. Money talks. It is a mystery to me why he has not been able to buy the influence of our counterparts in Ontario.

[Wesley Mouch]

Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't the backups on the bridge more to do with Customs than the limited bridge roadway volume limits??

Roadway capacity isn't an issue. It is all about customs.

[Detroit Stylin]

I agree 100% this should be federal project. And I don't think there even should be a toll. Why are we debating the payback or toll revenues? By doing this, we are playing into Matty's hand.

So how do they pay for maintenance then? Oh yeah...the TAX PAYERS....

[Wesley Mouch]

So how do they pay for maintenance then? Oh yeah...the TAX PAYERS....

And road tax on gas. Just like every other road.

[Richard]

Seems like kinda putting the cart before the horse , how about making the tunnels so they can allow double deckers and offer them a tax rebate at years end to encourage the use there.

But the whole concept about it not costing taxpayers becomes Mott anyways when you say Feds are paying for the plaza,then you have to build customs search points which is more tax dollars .

What else?