A story about a squatter in an upscale neighborhood

[JBMcB]

I think I posted this on another thread, but it's relevant here, too.

Here's a story from This American Life about a guy in post-Katrina New Orleans pulling the same stunt. He taught himself some basic property law and used this knowledge to mess with people trying to buy the properties that he used to own [[and some he never owned) and were foreclosed on.

The police weren't interested until he forged a judge's signature on a restraining order.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/409/held-hostage?act=2

[Bagley]

You guys have to be kidding about balking at $400,000. There are STILL homes in Detroit that would be $1 million to $2 million anywhere else selling for $200,000-700,000. Several years ago, those homes were selling in the $400,000 range on a pretty regular basis. Take a look at realtor.com and look at some of the amenities added to homes currently on the market in the $200,000-400,000 range and you will see recent signs of executive/upper-class owners right along-side the amenities from upper-class owners past.

I hear 400,000.00 for a house in Detroit, my ears perk up, a red light goes off in my head and the cop in me gets a wake up call. Even if we're referring to Palmer Woods or Sherwood Forest that sounds a little on the steep side to me. Unless you're goofing around trying to walk off with a quarter mil or so.

[Bagley]

Again, if you think that you could find a house with oak paneled libraries, Pewabic/marble foyers, marble-floored greenhouses, two kitchens, servants quarters, carriage houses, hand-painted ceilings, etc. for $100,000, good luck. These houses/neighborhoods were very solid up until the Kwame-era/error. The home that you mentioned had--last I checked-- around $36,000/year in taxes. Many of these homes had/have tax bills in the $11,000-17,000 range. Who can afford those tax bills but is looking for the $100,000 fixer-upper? Trust us, there are/were executives for whom $500,000 was a pittance to live in these unique and opulent homes.

[Bham1982]

You guys have to be kidding about balking at $400,000. There are STILL homes in Detroit that would be $1 million to $2 million anywhere else selling for $200,000-700,000.

RE is obviously almost 100% location. There are Detroit properties that would go for 50x more if you put them in the Hamptons or Malibu, based on the land alone. Nobody disputes that Detroit has gorgeous homes; usually better than those of the suburbs.

But currently, in the City of Detroit, there are very few properties selling in that price range [[200k-700k). In fact, there are very few properties even asking in that price range.

A quick check on Trulia shows that for UD, Palmer Woods, Sherwood Forest, and Green Acres, well over 80% of properties have asking prices below 200k [[most well below 200k), and that's the best area of Detroit.

[Bagley]

You are generalizing across neighborhoods where homes were built by the founders and inheritors of businesses and those where mid-level managers/professors lived. Even today I would argue that many homes in Indian Village, PW, Boston-Edison and Arden Park take one $250k+ income or two $120+ incomes [[and lots of love) to maintain [[of course the frugality of the homeowner, whether they bought or inherited, etc are factors). Also, these areas tend to be much more expensive at their cores. There are, of course, fringe/troubled properties but I assure you those are outliers. The prices that you are imagining were at the low end in the mid-1980's but imagine fifteen years of appreciation and wage increases, etc. The incomes of folks who live in these neighborhoods and mine [[LP) would probably surprise you too. Again, think of the families you know who can afford to pay $15,000-20,000 in property taxes and ask yourself if they are moving into a $100K fixer-upper.

[Bagley]

Alternately, take your $100K fixer-upper, add a $35,000 + roof, a $30,000 kitchen, floor refinishing for 5,000-7,000 sq. ft., tuck-pointing for stone, $3,000-5,000 for tree removal... Oh, not to mention that your fixer-upper needs windows--and not just any windows. Price out replacements that are just below the quality of the originals and you're probably in the $800/per window. Upgrade the HVAC and you'll have to break out another $30K. You'd be $200K into just about any PW, Indian Village, Boston-Edison or Arden Park home before your housewarming. $300,000 to $400,000 and a call to the decorator beats becoming a general contractor--unless that's your goal.

[ragnarok1981]

Our neighborhood contacted the deed fraud unit, the cops, the county, you name it and nothing was happening, or at the very least nothing very fast and that is what is so troubling here. They know he is committing a crime but they don't act until they " have all their ducks in a row". Even once they have the arrest warrant they don't hunt him down, it is a matter of us alerting them when he shows and we have to pray that they get there before he runs. Yesterday I called 911 when I saw him there and before the cops came he started to leave. I tried blocking the driveway with my car and he almost rammed it so I moved and followed him but he went about 80mph down state fair and lost me. I almost feel like I have to call 911 and say there is a man with a gun shooting at people just to get their attention.

[corktownyuppie]

Our neighborhood contacted the deed fraud unit, the cops, the county, you name it and nothing was happening, or at the very least nothing very fast and that is what is so troubling here. They know he is committing a crime but they don't act until they " have all their ducks in a row". Even once they have the arrest warrant they don't hunt him down, it is a matter of us alerting them when he shows and we have to pray that they get there before he runs. Yesterday I called 911 when I saw him there and before the cops came he started to leave. I tried blocking the driveway with my car and he almost rammed it so I moved and followed him but he went about 80mph down state fair and lost me. I almost feel like I have to call 911 and say there is a man with a gun shooting at people just to get their attention.

I wonder if the owner [[who is still legally the person who walked away, as foreclosure proceedings haven't been completed) can have his car towed for trespassing. Then when the guy goes to pickup the car from the impound lot...there's the police with the arrest warrant waiting for him...just thinking out loud.

[swingline]

I wonder if the owner [[who is still legally the person who walked away, as foreclosure proceedings haven't been completed) can have his car towed for trespassing. Then when the guy goes to pickup the car from the impound lot...there's the police with the arrest warrant waiting for him...just thinking out loud.

Not a bad plan if the original owner was in the picture. He's not though. And to clear things up a little, the OP mentioned that the foreclosure redemption period expired in March. That means that the bank owns the property now. As I mentioned in an earlier post, by permitting a squatter to occupy the property and presumably create a host of code violations, the bank [[the owner) is causing a nuisance. They are liable for this in civil court.

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

I guess I'm not clear on this. So, the guy is not actually living in the house? You see no lights on what so ever? BTW, you can buy a water shut off tool at home depot and shut the water off yourself when he is gone.

[SWMAP]

How do you do that? I know how in my old SW Detroit neighborhood because the water shut off is on the sidewalk in front. But where in, say, Sherwood Forest?

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

It is always somewhere in the front yard, it is a round metal thingy. It comes off, then the long pipe tool goes down to shut the valve.

Here is a link to the home depot view of the tool I'm talking about.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...&storeId=10051

[SWMAP]

After you turn it off with the HD "key," you haveto pour cement slurry down the pipe because the average squatter will just turn it back on. The Water Department has the ability to get through the cement but average squatter does not. Tip from a gritty neighborhood!

[socks_mahoney]

There are around 500 homes for sale in Detroit today for under $5,000. More than 100 of those are under $2,000. Go ahead, bail out the people you care about. Buy them a house. Fix it up. Pay their utilities and taxes. Be the change you want to see.

That's a stupid response. I, individually, do not have the resources or power to do that. Not even a very wealthy person could do that in a sustainable way. What is instead required is concerted government action to provide for the HUMAN RIGHT of housing. If anyone doubts that housing is a human right I challenge you to survive one Detroit winter on the streets.

And to you Mr Birmingham1982: the cause of homelessness is irrelevant. Humans need to be housed, and the shelters are packed full. A recent development in the homeless housing realm has been the movement "housing first". Many members of our house-less brothers and sisters are yes, addicted to alcohol or drugs, but again I challenge you to imagine falling asleep on the streets without the aide of some whiskey or gin. Putting people in houses first, respecting their basic human rights so they can respect themselves, is primary. Then they can work on other problems.

Who cares that the banks "gave the loan on the home". In reality, we THE PEOPLE, gave the loan on the home. The trillions of dollars [[yes trillions, TARP was only the beginning) that we gave the bank more than made up for losses they may incur.

Get used to this DYESERS. Many real groups in Detroit are planning these types of movements for this summer. Homeless and empty homes. Put them together. Get off the keyboard.

Housing is a human right. All power to the people!

[SWMAP]

That was a really scary showdown yesterday in the Guardian Building! I saw all the blight posters on the utility poles around town begging people to come. How many people showed up - about 50?

[socks_mahoney]

SWAMP: 50 people is not huge. We have had more. We have had less. But never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.

How many more homes must be destroyed? How many families made homeless? How many more billionaires wasting money on champagne?

If you all want to live under the tyranny of the banks, enjoy. I for one will be fighting.

[corktownyuppie]

SWAMP: 50 people is not huge. We have had more. We have had less. But never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.

How many more homes must be destroyed? How many families made homeless? How many more billionaires wasting money on champagne?

If you all want to live under the tyranny of the banks, enjoy. I for one will be fighting.

We may have to disagree about whether or not housing is a human right. but surely you don't believe that living in an upscale home appraising in the $100,000-$200,000 range is a human right, do you?

Because if so, maybe we should all stop paying rent and mortgages, too.

You know, it's easy to blame the banks in all this, and God knows I think there's plenty to blame them for. But you do realize that the real person who benefited from all of this wasn't the bank. It was the guy who sold the house and pocketed $400,000 in cash.

Fight the banks all you want. Next time I hire someone to replace my roof or re-do my plumbing, I won't pay him. I'll send him a thank you letter expressing my gratitude for continuing to help my human right to shelter continue to be fulfilled.

[socks_mahoney]

Housing is a human right by law. Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States is a signatory reads...

Article 25.

• [[1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

[Richard]

live under the tyranny of the banks? not me,I chose to live under the tyranny of personal responsibility but after reading all of this I guess it is time now to cash out,bank the monies walk away from the bank and go squat,thus exercising my right to shelter.

But I guess that would have its hazards as the neighbors that are footing the bill for my rights might get a bit upset and hold, what is called in the military,a blanket party,and I really could not fault them for that as they would also be exercising their right for the pursuit of happiness.

[Richard]

Housing is a human right by law. Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States is a signatory reads...

Article 25.

• [[1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Article 30.

• Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

You do have the right to housing but no where does it say you have the right to complementary housing.

[jerrytimes]

Housing is a human right by law.

True, it is a right, you have the right to purchase a home.

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

Lol, you guys are getting way off topic, I want to see
ragnarok1981 get rid of the scum bag.

[Det_ard]

That's a stupid response. I, individually, do not have the resources or power to do that. Not even a very wealthy person could do that in a sustainable way. What is instead required is concerted government action to provide for the HUMAN RIGHT of housing. If anyone doubts that housing is a human right I challenge you to survive one Detroit winter on the streets.

Actually you probably do have the resources to provide housing for a homeless person. Together with your 50 comrades you could certainly buy a few $1000 houses, put in some sweat equity and give a homeless person a home. Yet you choose not to. How heartless!

You appear to be quite generous, with other people's money, yet rather stingy with your own. Shame on you. The least you could do, individually, is start sleeping on the couch and let a homeless person sleep in your bed. After all, it's their HUMAN RIGHT, isn't it? Remember, the whole world is watching.

[Gistok]

Well one thing is certain... we're not supposed to actually "plan" any illegal activities on this forum. That's a no-no to the Forum rules. But what would happen if some neighborhood hooligans were to flatten the tires on his creeps car when it was parked in that house's driveway. Would that slow or stop his escape before the police got there?

[Wheels]

http://www.defensedevices.com/caltrops.html


Just sayin.