Troy City Government is going BANKRUPT by 2016.

[Detroitnerd]

Metro Detroit: Relatively healthy since 1970.

[nain rouge]

Bham1982: Yes, I think they're decent places to live. Facts are facts, though. Dearborn had population growth of 0.4% the last census, and I already shared a study that proves that Southfield actually has the second highest amount of office space in Metro Detroit. Neither statistic is something to be ashamed of. Of course not. I'm just keeping the discussion honest.

[Gistok]

I think that you'll find that the inner ring suburbs [[politicians and population) finally realize [[a bit late I might add) that their future is inexplicably tied to the health and future of Detroit.

At the same time, I think that the outer burbs are still in denial... partly due to the fact that they're growing, and gaining population at the expense of the other 2 groups. I would list Troy as somewhere in between [[inner and outer burb)... and perhaps their politicians/populace is just now waking up to the facts...

[mwilbert]

To a large extent the level of employment and shopping in Troy is beside the point. How much revenue does Troy get from those? Relatively little--Troy doesn't get sales tax from the shopping or income tax from the jobs. The problem is that the revenue model for Michigan cities is flawed, and even a "relatively healthy" city that isn't growing such as Troy has trouble making ends meet. A decline in property values can start a vicious circle of service cuts and further property value declines.

[Detroitnerd]

To a large extent the level of employment and shopping in Troy is beside the point. How much revenue does Troy get from those? Relatively little--Troy doesn't get sales tax from the shopping or income tax from the jobs.

But doesn't it get taxes from all the businesses? In a typical bedroom community, they wouldn't get that. Hasn't that largely made the difference for Troy in the last 30 years?

[mwilbert]

Yes, but the value of the property is only indirectly tied to the amount of shopping or jobs. However, you are certainly correct that there is revenue as a result of them, and it is better to have the shopping and jobs than not to have them

[Detroitnerd]

That is a problem. A lot of the development that Troy got is just ...

I don't know if ugly is the right word. It's unimaginative. Medium-high-rises with strip windows and parking lots. No actual city center. Just mile after mile of institutional-looking buildings that can't be easily repurposed. Few opportunities for walking or biking ... how is this ever going to be worth MORE than it is right now?

[Novine]

"how is this ever going to be worth MORE than it is right now?"

It isn't. You'll have to bulldoze it down. It's like Brooks Patterson trying to get people to buy the shells of the buildings at Bloomfield Park. Who's going to want those? They have no real value and the best bet would be to demolish it all.

[Bham1982]

It's like Brooks Patterson trying to get people to buy the shells of the buildings at Bloomfield Park. Who's going to want those? They have no real value and the best bet would be to demolish it all.

Bloomfield Park is in Pontiac, which is the opposite of sprawl.

It's a failure and, yes, will probably be torn down, because it's in Pontiac.

Everyone knew this from the get-go, which is why the surrounding [[sprawling) communities were fighting the developer nonsense.

[Detroitnerd]

There's a certain poster on this forum who reminds me of a guy in 1925 driving a horse and cart down Woodward, saying that those gas buggies will NEVER catch on, even as he's surrounded by them, all honking at him. Yet, he keeps on shouting, "Get a hoss!" at all the motorists.

[Bham1982]

There's a certain poster on this forum who reminds me of a guy in 1925 driving a horse and cart down Woodward, saying that those gas buggies will NEVER catch on, even as he's surrounded by them, all honking at him. Yet, he keeps on shouting, "Get a hoss!" at all the motorists.

Yeah, the crazy one, who apparently thinks that expanding abandonment in Pontiac is a slightly odd example in support of the "sprawl is dead and old cities are rising" meme.

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, the crazy one, who apparently thinks that expanding abandonment in Pontiac is a slightly odd example in support of the "sprawl is dead and old cities are rising" meme.

You don't know what I think at all, or else you wouldn't be so busy misrepresenting it. I'm just saying you're funny ... bunny.

[Wesley Mouch]

That is a problem. A lot of the development that Troy got is just ...

I don't know if ugly is the right word. It's unimaginative. Medium-high-rises with strip windows and parking lots. No actual city center. Just mile after mile of institutional-looking buildings that can't be easily repurposed. Few opportunities for walking or biking ... how is this ever going to be worth MORE than it is right now?

Plenty of people don't want to walk nor bike. They need a place where they can be left alone to sprawl.

[Parkguy]

From what I've read, about 1/3 of the population wants dense urban, 1/3 want car-oriented suburbs, and about 1/3 want rural living.

[Gistok]

From what I've read, about 1/3 of the population wants dense urban, 1/3 want car-oriented suburbs, and about 1/3 want rural living.

If your talking the forum... yes that's about right... but if you're talking about the metro population in general... I bet that fewer than 5% want dense urban living... even young people! I know many young people who are perfectly content living out in the boonies between Algonac and Armada.

[corktownyuppie]

If your talking the forum... yes that's about right... but if you're talking about the metro population in general... I bet that fewer than 5% want dense urban living... even young people! I know many young people who are perfectly content living out in the boonies between Algonac and Armada.

I'm neutral as to whether or not that's true. One thing, though, is that you have a self-fulfilling prophecy. Only 5% might want dense urban living, but that's only because the other 250,000-500,000 who do decided to leave for another state where we could provide that. So I'm not sure where reality in terms of preference.

But in terms of arithmetic, there is no doubt. You can't continue to double infrastructural costs and geographic footprint while holding population constant or shrinking. At some point you're fight against the realities of math.

[Danny]

Looks like Emperor Nero filled with his lyre! " O muse! sing a song of the burning of Troy. It's walls can't stand against the horse of Neptune!"

[Danny]

I just looked it up, and Troy has AAA bond rating, highest possible for municipalities.

Most Metro area cities don't have this rating.

By the time, When The City of Troy is going broke! It's credit rating will BBB in no time.

[mwilbert]

From what I've read, about 1/3 of the population wants dense urban, 1/3 want car-oriented suburbs, and about 1/3 want rural living..

I've seen a 30-35% number for people preferring walkable urban, but that is a national number and could easily not hold true for the Detroit area.

[Hermod]

I've seen a 30-35% number for people preferring walkable urban, but that is a national number and could easily not hold true for the Detroit area.

Because there is very little safely walkable in the urb of the D.

[Wesley Mouch]

I just looked it up, and Troy has AAA bond rating, highest possible for municipalities.

Most Metro area cities don't have this rating.

By the time, When The City of Troy is going broke! It's credit rating will BBB in no time.

2016 is four years off. Troy it seems is looking years into the future and seeing the icebergs.

This is responsible, and probably a reflection of why they have a good credit rating.

The question now is what they will do about it.

[corktownyuppie]

Most Metro area cities don't have this rating.

2016 is four years off. Troy it seems is looking years into the future and seeing the icebergs.

This is responsible, and probably a reflection of why they have a good credit rating.

The question now is what they will do about it.

Yeah, a more realistic headline would be:

"Troy City Government Must Effect Changes to Avoid Bankruptcy by 2016"

[Novine]

"It's a failure and, yes, will probably be torn down, because it's in Pontiac."

The failure of the project had nothing to do with its location in Pontiac. It was part of Bloomfield Township until it was annexed into Pontiac. It's on the far fringe of the city and the surrounding area has none of the density of the built-up portions of Pontiac.