Lake St. Clair Needs to Finally Become a True Asset for the Inner Ring Suburbs

[jt1]

Pointless comment:

I'm finding this thread to be absolutely hysterical. Please carry on everyone.

Things that would happen if everyone had access to Grosse Pointe parks:

1. Metro Detroit would be crime free
2. 100% high scholl graduation rate
3. Metro population of about a billion
4. Our farts would smell like roses
5. Racism and classism in the region would go away
6. LBP would probably move to Detroit
7. Bus service and mass transit would be 'world class' and we'd have 1,000,000 miles of bike lanes
8. Property taxes would no longer exist since we would have 1billion people all making 7 figures.

But noooooo, SCS and GP have to mess up this perfect world. I say we kill them all.

I spelled 'high scholl' wrong. Probably because I wasn't allowed in those darn parks

[nain rouge]

Jt1: It's some people's obsession with the parks in St. Clair Shores and the Pointes that made this topic seem that way. Reread my original post with a rational mind. It's about opening up the coast in general and improving bus services. How could that not improve the region? And on the topic of the sacred parks, all I've ever said is that opening up them up could be a step in that direction. Personally, I'd be more than happy if they opened up most of the coast but kept the current parks resident-only, so xenophobic Shoreans and Pointers could keep their private refuges from Detroiters and the horrors of fish guts.

[jt1]

Jt1: It's some people's obsession with the parks in St. Clair Shores and the Pointes that made this topic seem that way. Reread my original post with a rational mind. It's about opening up the coast in general and improving bus services. How could that not improve the region? And on the topic of the sacred parks, all I've ever said is that opening up them up could be a step in that direction. Personally, I'd be more than happy if they opened up most of the coast but kept the current parks resident-only, so xenophobic Shoreans and Pointers could keep their private refuges from Detroiters and the horrors of fish guts.

I agree our regional use of the asset is sad. Then again our regional support of the arts, transportation, disabled and mentally ill. homeless, etc are all pretty sad.

The big issue with using the water isn't opening up access to the few parks on the water but the mass use of residential housing on the shoreline. The few parks in Grosse Pointe and Macomb County probably make up a fraction of a percent of the total water frontage.

Maybe we could push for a regional tax to buy homes on the water as they go up for sale, tear them down and create regional accesible parks. The argument is to fight for a few acres as opposed to looking at the big picture.

Of course we have a region that appears appalled at the idea of supporting one of the best art museums in the country so I doubt that any regional approach to parks and access would get very far.

But I'll be more than happy to grab my pitchfork and storm the lakes in Oakland County

[jt1]

PS - Sorry for the snarkiness.

I just don't think that regionalism and sharing of assets is something this region will discuss if it results in [[a) additional taxes [[b) mixing with people of different color, ethnicity or socioeconomic background or [[c) someone giving something up to better the region.

We are what we are: A region that was once wealthy but never educated and never regionally thinking. Wealth with a lack of education and a lack of vision is what got us here and what will keep up here.

[p69rrh51]

Jt1: It's some people's obsession with the parks in St. Clair Shores and the Pointes that made this topic seem that way. Reread my original post with a rational mind. It's about opening up the coast in general and improving bus services. How could that not improve the region? And on the topic of the sacred parks, all I've ever said is that opening up them up could be a step in that direction. Personally, I'd be more than happy if they opened up most of the coast but kept the current parks resident-only, so xenophobic Shoreans and Pointers could keep their private refuges from Detroiters and the horrors of fish guts.

Throughout all of this you still have not given one piece of evidence except that others do it [[some jump off bridges but I am not just because they want to), let's see some real numbers that giving up a miniscule shoreline will ACTUALLY help the area not just your agenda? And still no crying about access in Detroit why don't you want the same access there? If we should give our shoreline why not everyone? But then I already know the answer!! You are the real xenophobic when it comes down to it!

[antongast]

And still no crying about access in Detroit why don't you want the same access there? If we should give our shoreline why not everyone? But then I already know the answer!! You are the real xenophobic when it comes down to it!

That's one possible explanation, I suppose. Here are a few others I thought of:
1. Detroit doesn't have Lake St. Clair frontage, so to the extent that Lake St. Clair frontage is what nain rouge is after, it doesn't make much sense to worry about Detroit.
2. Nain rouge lives closer to the SCS/GP parts of Lake St. Clair than to the Detroit riverfront, so accessing the Detroit riverfront presents the same problem as accessing Lake St. Clair through Metro Beach or points north. Conversely, since I live much closer to the Detroit riverfront than to Lake St. Clair, I'd never really given much thought to the amount of lake access available in SCS/GP before I saw this thread.
3. Detroit, at least on the east side, provides a lot of public access to its waterfront already. Off the top of my head, there are enormous parks at the ends of Alter, Lakewood, and Conner, there's a smaller park at Dwight and Parkview in the Berry Sub, there's Richard Park, there's Belle Isle, and there's Mt. Elliott Park and the whole riverwalk stretching from there into downtown. All those parks are free and open to the public without restriction, except that some of them close at night.

[Bham1982]

All those parks are free and open to the public without restriction, except that some of them close at night.

They're also all not particularly crowded, which casts doubt on the claim that there's some massive untapped regional demand for public waterfront access.

[Kevgoblue]

We are what we are: A region that was once wealthy but never educated and never regionally thinking. Wealth with a lack of education and a lack of vision is what got us here and what will keep up here.

Hands down, best comment on the thread. And this statement could be applied as is, to half the discussions on this site.

[eastland]

The lake is a luxury item? I don't even care much about those tiny parks. Opening them up would be an improvement, but not a solution.

This attitude, that I'm unjustly complaining, doesn't make sense when you compare Metro Detroit to other successful regions. If I was living on the west side of Brooklyn, I'd be about as far from the ocean as I am from Lake St. Clair now. But in Brooklyn, I'd still have tons of access to the ocean, and undoubtedly many residents on the west side of Brooklyn take advantage of that in one way or another. Here, though, such a notion is ridiculed as selfish. Really?


[/COLOR]
As one such person, I beg to differ, for reasons clearly outlined in my other posts.



No, they wouldn't, primarily because of how these regions were designed. But quite a few young, upwardly mobile people enjoy living in Royal Oak and Ferndale, for example. If you design your area intelligently, it will attract more people. It's a simple concept. People will only settle in an unattractive area if there is an overabundance of good jobs, like we saw when the auto industry was dominant.



Yes, Detroit has much better access. I'd move there if I could find a decent job in the city, but it's not easy. I admit, I'm not going to significantly increase my travel time to live in Detroit. And we're in this unfortunate state of affairs, where there are way more quality jobs in the suburbs than the city, precisely because of our region's provincialism. It'll be awhile before Detroit recovers [[if it even does, which is questionable given the entrenched attitudes in the region), and sadly that's time we may not have to spare. The inner ring suburbs need to step it up, too, if this region is going to stay competitive. Too many people in the inner ring want Detroit to do all the dirty work for them without pitching in any resources.

And I'll admit it: biking or walking through the 8 Mile to McNichols area as it stands currently isn't exactly pleasant, especially at night. I do it sometimes, and I get messed with more than I'd like because I'm clearly not from the area. It is what it is, and you know that. Places like the Pointes hoard all the resources and then act incredulous when the neighborhoods in east Detroit fall apart. Hmmm....

I think the private yacht clubs and country clubs in Grosse Pointe should be open to everybody too. It's not fair that the people who built them and support them are the only ones to enjoy them.

[p69rrh51]

They're also all not particularly crowded, which casts doubt on the claim that there's some massive untapped regional demand for public waterfront access.

On top of a right on the money obsevation, 3 of the underutilzed parks are right at the mouth of the Detroit River! This crying has been going on as long as I can rememeber and for the last 43 years I have heard the same inane comments, but whats really funny is everyone that's 100% of those with similar views who move here change their tune almost immediately once they really see what's at stake. In the long run you will NEVER change the situation short of killing all 50,000 residents so take your crying somewhere else where someone actually cares!

[laphoque]

Michigan actually has a pretty good case law when it comes to beaches. You're allowed to walk them by the high tide line. All of the great lakes. I don't think the same holds true for Lake St. Claire. I guess that would be a reason to declare it a great lake.

http://www.beachapedia.org/State_of_...I/Beach_Access

BTW: I think Belle Isle's beaches are better than the ones I trespassed to see in St. Claire Shores. The guard just gave my friend and I a friendly wave. Unfortunately if you're darker skinned, I know at least one guy who got carded and booted from the park.

I really think the Pointes and Shores need to excise their own personal Hubbards and allow nonresidents into the parks.

Now if we could just get a warning put up at Belle Isle about swimming at your own risk due to the currents at Hipster Beach everyone could skinny-dip in peace [[without DPD rolling up and giving everyone trespassing citations).

[Novine]

"All of the great lakes. I don't think the same holds true for Lake St. Claire. I guess that would be a reason to declare it a great lake."

The same rule applies to Lake St. Clair. But I don't think there's much "beach" or otherwise walkable areas along the lake near the Pointes or SCS. Even if it was possible, I'm sure that the cops would be called immediately if you attempted to walk along the waterfront in the Pointes or SCS.

[JBMcB]

Even if it was possible, I'm sure that the cops would be called immediately if you attempted to walk along the waterfront in the Pointes or SCS.

You're free to walk or ride your bike on the grassy area along Lakeshore drive. I've seen lots of people do it, and have done it myself for years.