Lake St. Clair Needs to Finally Become a True Asset for the Inner Ring Suburbs

**Gistok** · April-30-12, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by ordinary

It is totally disingenous to even call that a park. It's about the size of a postage stamp.

Yes, it's more of a lookout... but cyclists seem to like it... and the OP's comments were as a cyclist.

But I will continue to enjoy its' quiet solitude while watching the boats on the Lake...

**Jimaz** · April-30-12, 09:51 AM

Champine Park Nice.

**Danny** · April-30-12, 09:57 AM

Folks, If you all want to see Lake St Clair view on go Lake Shore Dr. [[E.Jefferson) in Grosse Pointe Shores and find a good parking spot [[for a few monents) There you all see the beauty of Lake St Clair. Any road pass on E. Jefferson in St Clair Shores all the way up to Harrison TWP. will be private residences. There are some parks for public like Champine Park. The rest is for St Clair Shore residens only. Therefore no trespessing!

**poobert** · April-30-12, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by ordinary

Horror of horrors, there was a person fishing!! I know I'm taking that out of context but it did strike me as funny.

The bottom line is that the lakefront is never going to be opened up. It's too late for that. It would have had to happen 100 years ago.

Nah. I think you're right on both counts.

It really offers a glimpse into the Pointes mentality that still prevails. Somebody doing something innocuous, fishing, which has been around since time immemorial, becomes the subject of outrage for sullying the landscape which in some convoluted way is "paid for" by the "residents." Whatever.

I digress but I've had it with that place. My fellow neighbors have had discussions about how we have to avoid driving on Mack. It isn't even a racial profiling [[a number of us are white) thing, the GP cops just run the plates and when they come up as Detroit - BAM - all of a sudden your tail lights were flickering. Anyway...

I think everyone is mostly in agreement that the tiny SCS and GP parks were not made for a metro region. However I disagree with the assesment that most people in the region "don't care". No, not when it comes to the everyday things like having a job or fast police respose, but I am certain that if you posed the question "do you think Metro Detroit residents should have better access to Lake St. Clair" people would agree. Evidenced first in the insane popularity of Metro Beach and Belle Isle. Secondly, Metro residents HAVE proved they care about more than just eating and screwing in that they approved quality-of-life proposals like the Zoo millage and the SMART millage.

It would be nice if, going forward, instead of eminent domain, underutilized land near the lake could be used. It's been a long time but I seem to remember some weird lots up closer to Harrison Township that might work? Also maybe buying foreclosed or dilapidated properties, land bank style, and converting them to even pocket parks like that goofy little bike park at 12 mile and Jefferson.

**poobert** · April-30-12, 10:02 AM

I also live close enough that I ride my bike to that long strip of land in GP on the lake and read there. If they try to eject or arrest me I'll just get litiguous. I know some familiar newspaper folks too.

**Gistok** · April-30-12, 10:02 AM

Here's a nice view of the small pocket park.... at the end of 12 Mile Rd....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/on_the_...n/photostream/

And a view of the water... [[including Gull Island in the left background)...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/on_the_...n/photostream/

A great place to just sit down [[on one of the 3 park benches overlooking the water)... and enjoy a quiet meal or just relax and take in the view... I'm sure that if the neighbor on either side of this small park ever sells their house, that the city will buy it for expanding this little oasis...

**mikefmich** · April-30-12, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by KJ5

Legalize fishing on Lakeshore!

I used to fish onshore at Moross & Lakeshore on a regular basis. Yeah, we caught them.

**Bham1982** · April-30-12, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

"This must be an "only-in-Detroit" thing. If you go to the west side of the state, almost every town along the lake has at least one or more significant public beaches along Lake Michigan and almost every one of those towns is a destination for people near and far. New Buffalo, South Haven, St. Joe, Saugatuck/Douglas, Holland, etc.

This is true, but it's quite the apples-to-oranges comparison.

**nain rouge** · April-30-12, 10:41 AM

Also why are you not ranting about all the Oakland Co. lakes and access there? Its a very similar situation to the eastside. Hazel Park is closer to some the lakes but no crying about the lack of access there?

Look, I don't know the name or location of every lake in Michigan. I just know that there is gigantic lake called Lake St. Clair not far from me that I can't access. And this argument of "hey, other regions are messed up, too" needs to go in the garbage bin, where it belongs. That seems to be the excuse for every dumb tradition people here can't let go.

Fine, let all these postage stamp sized cities block off the lake, but don't act surprised when this region continues to go downhill. There's a reason so many young, educated people go to other metros to start their careers and businesses. This is just such an irritating place to live. People are actually criticizing me for wanting easy access to an absolutely gigantic lake that's less than 9 miles from my house. They want me to travel twice as far, or kiss their feet for that sliver of land called Champine Park [[which I was already aware of when I made this thread)). Lordy. If a Grosse Pointe built a public dock, they'd probably expect the rest of the suburbs to hold a parade for them. Boy, I love this place.

**antongast** · April-30-12, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

And with Eminent Domain as restrictive as it is... there's no other option for more...

I don't think this is true. The restrictions recently placed on eminent domain in Michigan by the Hathcock decision and the 2006 ballot initiative dealt with cases where eminent domain was used to transfer land to a private entity as part of an economic development project. Using eminent domain to create public parkland shouldn't be at all controversial under current Michigan law.

My guess is that the reasons why eminent domain hasn't been and likely won't be used to create parks along Lake St. Clair have more to do with the prohibitive cost of paying fair market value for lakefront property and the political considerations involved with pissing off a bunch of rich, well-connected property owners than with the restrictiveness of eminent domain law.

**GPCharles** · April-30-12, 11:00 AM

Just where would you put this public dock in Grosse Pointe? The shoreline is either private homes, private clubs, 1 private park, 5 city parks or Lakeshore Drive. It has been that way since the late 1880s. The private homes on the water pay boatloads [[pun intended) in property taxes.

BTW - Go north of the city limits of Chicago and let me know how much public access there is to Lake Michigan.

Lack of acess to Lake St. Clair has little or nothing to do with the decline of the metro area.

And FYI, I live in Grosse Pointe and work in Detroit. I pay income tax to Detroit and property taxes to Wayne County.

**poobert** · April-30-12, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

Look, I don't know the name or location of every lake in Michigan. I just know that there is gigantic lake called Lake St. Clair not far from me that I can't access. And this argument of "hey, other regions are messed up, too" needs to go in the garbage bin, where it belongs. That seems to be the excuse for every dumb tradition people here can't let go.

Fine, let all these postage stamp sized cities block off the lake, but don't act surprised when this region continues to go downhill. There's a reason so many young, educated people go to other metros to start their careers and businesses. This is just such an irritating place to live. People are actually criticizing me for wanting easy access to an absolutely gigantic lake that's less than 9 miles from my house. They want me to travel twice as far, or kiss their feet for that sliver of land called Champine Park [[which I was already aware of when I made this thread)). Lordy. If a Grosse Pointe built a public dock, they'd probably expect the rest of the suburbs to hold a parade for them. Boy, I love this place.

Here's the rub: You're right, and the people who are still here don't care. I resolved a long time ago that attitudes here are not going to change - in fact, become more entrenched as the educated young people go elsewhere. It isn't just about the lake, it's about everything. My best friend moved to a very scenic part of the west coast where they can freely access the ocean, mountains, and forests - 15 minutes from their home, no questions asked. You simply can't do that here. Simply proposing, wishing, or suggesting changing the status quo and fucking Grosse Pointe comes out of the woodwork screaming about taking your ass elsewhere and how the "trash" will "ruin" what they've got. All because they "pay their taxes!!!!1" oh woop-die fucking do, so do I. I probably pay more than anyone in the region. I stopped fighting that fight long ago and simply want to be gone before I'm thirty.

**p69rrh51** · April-30-12, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Here's the rub: You're right, and the people who are still here don't care. I resolved a long time ago that attitudes here are not going to change - in fact, become more entrenched as the educated young people go elsewhere. It isn't just about the lake, it's about everything. My best friend moved to a very scenic part of the west coast where they can freely access the ocean, mountains, and forests - 15 minutes from their home, no questions asked. You simply can't do that here. Simply proposing, wishing, or suggesting changing the status quo and fucking Grosse Pointe comes out of the woodwork screaming about taking your ass elsewhere and how the "trash" will "ruin" what they've got. All because they "pay their taxes!!!!1" oh woop-die fucking do, so do I. I probably pay more than anyone in the region. I stopped fighting that fight long ago and simply want to be gone before I'm thirty.

Last time I checked we are still capitalist country. If you want all the open areas move to the People's Republic of California! Or better yet put your money where you mouth is and move here so you have the access you think you are entitled too. Also my family did not mind the people fishing off the shoreline but the guy LEAVING THE GUTS ON THE LAWN was way out of line!! Last you pay taxes to Detroit not Grosse Pointe what gives your the right to use OUR land if you are NOT paying to keep it up and yes there might be one or two residents left who actually own the part of the property between Lakeshore and the lake so someone does own the lake. All in all get over it!

**poobert** · April-30-12, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by p69rrh51

Last time I checked we are still capitalist country. If you want all the open areas move to the People's Republic of California!

I don't think this little gem requires or should be dignified with a response. Just keep talking...so people can see what it is really like to live here.

Other than: you don't own the lake, no matter how you try to spin it. Have a nice life.

**Gistok** · April-30-12, 12:24 PM

Detroit has had private ownership of lakefront and riverfront land since 1701 with the advent of the French ribbon farms. That has affected everything from riverfront access to the street layouts. So access has always been restricted.

I'm curious how well Cleveland, Chicago, and Milwaukee use their lakefront land.

**JBMcB** · April-30-12, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Simply proposing, wishing, or suggesting changing the status quo and fucking Grosse Pointe comes out of the woodwork screaming about taking your ass elsewhere and how the "trash" will "ruin" what they've got.

I don't see anyone screaming about protecting their lake access on this thread. I do see people flipping out because they decided to live miles away from the lake and they can't get to it easily. Move closer to the lake and you can have access to it.

I love John King books. It's one of my favorite stores on the planet. I don't live anywhere near it. I don't complain about how inconvenient they are to my house. I chose to live where I live, making several compromises and tradeoffs in the process. I don't have lake access, or an easily accessible golf course, or a skill hill I can get to easily. That's OK - I chose where I live.

I'm not going to impose on others to make my life easier or more pleasant. It's arrogant and rude.

**Novine** · April-30-12, 12:41 PM

Milwaukee and Chicago have excellent public access along Lake Michigan. They make the Detroit area look stingy in comparison.

**poobert** · April-30-12, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

I don't see anyone screaming about protecting their lake access on this thread. I do see people flipping out because they decided to live miles away from the lake and they can't get to it easily. Move closer to the lake and you can have access to it.

I love John King books. It's one of my favorite stores on the planet. I don't live anywhere near it. I don't complain about how inconvenient they are to my house. I chose to live where I live, making several compromises and tradeoffs in the process. I don't have lake access, or an easily accessible golf course, or a skill hill I can get to easily. That's OK - I chose where I live.

I'm not going to impose on others to make my life easier or more pleasant. It's arrogant and rude.

Okay, so now we don't draw the distinction between natural resources and retail establishments. They're exactly the same!

You want natural beauty? Buy a house next to it!
The other solution proposed has been "GET OVER IT!" - enlightened!

I simply don't think that's a very fair or intelligent solution that would fly most places in the civilized world, even outside of the "People's Republic of California"

**poobert** · April-30-12, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Milwaukee and Chicago have excellent public access along Lake Michigan. They make the Detroit area look stingy in comparison.

Everyone here is going to ignore that or call you a communist.

**bailey** · April-30-12, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Originally Posted by Novine

Milwaukee and Chicago have excellent public access along Lake Michigan. They make the Detroit area look stingy in comparison.

Everyone here is going to ignore that or call you a communist.

As is pointed out above.... go north of Chicago into the tony north side burbs and see how much access there is.

And since we're going to compare the two, quick Geography lesson... Detroit ISNT ON LAKE ST. CLAIR. It's on the River.... and right in the middle of that river is a 982 acre [[bigger than NYC's Central Park) park. As well as several other riverfront parks, including the new Riverwalk...and it's future extensions. How much more freaking access do you want?

**nain rouge** · April-30-12, 01:03 PM

Or better yet put your money where you mouth is and move here so you have the access you think you are entitled too.

You do realize that you can be living as close to Lake St. Clair as 12 Mile and Little Mack and still be denied access by St. Clair Shores and the Pointes, right? If you think that's healthy for our region or makes our suburbs more attractive, you're nuts. In 30 years most of the inner ring suburbs on the east side are going to be dumps if we don't change anything.

If people want to private access to Lake St. Clair, they should move to the country. St. Clair Shores and the Pointes want all the benefits of being located in a major metropolis without giving anything back.

**bailey** · April-30-12, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by nain rouge

You do realize that you can be living as close to Lake St. Clair as 12 Mile and Little Mack and still be denied access by St. Clair Shores and the Pointes, right? If you think that's healthy for our region or makes our suburbs more attractive, you're nuts. In 30 years most of the inner ring suburbs on the east side are going to be dumps if we don't change anything.

If people want to private access to Lake St. Clair, they should move to the country. St. Clair Shores and the Pointes want all the benefits of being located in a major metropolis without giving anything back.

So, because someone may have to drive 8.4 miles from 12 and Little Mack to get to Metro beach the region will implode?

What about all the poor lost souls that live west of Gratiot!?!? Lord how will the region survive with Lake St. Clair being so far away? Maybe we should dredge canals so that Warren can have some lake access?

**nain rouge** · April-30-12, 01:31 PM

So, because someone may have to drive 8.4 miles from 12 and Little Mack to get to Metro beach the region will implode?

Young people, particularly those that went to college and have upward mobility, are not as keen on living in automobile-centric neighborhoods as previous generations. It's an expensive, decaying way of life - just watch what happens when gas hits $5-$6 and stays there. And look at how grumpy, impatient, and overweight most drivers here are. Are they really enjoying this lifestyle?

Also, try taking the bus or bicycling from 12 Mile up to Metro Beach. It's not pleasant - trust me, I've done both. The communities farther north simply weren't designed for such modes of transportation.

No, denying access won't make the region implode, but it will contribute to its general decline into irrelevance. In places like Greater New York, they realize that uninterrupted urban sprawl makes for an unpleasant living experience. Having big parks/access and taking advantage of natural assets [[such as the ocean, in their case) breaks up the monotony and greatly adds to the desirability of the region.

**p69rrh51** · April-30-12, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

I don't think this little gem requires or should be dignified with a response. Just keep talking...so people can see what it is really like to live here.

Other than: you don't own the lake, no matter how you try to spin it. Have a nice life.

Exactly the answer I knew you would respond with! You jealously is showing quite well and you are actually do a better job of showing to people what we are like here.

**ddaydetroit** · April-30-12, 01:55 PM

Could you imagine a place like Hawaii where 90% of the water front was private ?
I live in Saint Clair Shores and I have been fortunate enough to have traveled the world many places in the world where the land around water is public and can not be closed off to the public it has always made me think what Saint Clair Shores would be like if we had done the same. Michigan has failed epically in this aspect with Lake Huron and lake Michigan.