EMF repeal blocked due to font size.

[edgar_rhode]

from a typographer who is often called in to consult on such matters ::

• Some years ago, I was contacted by the San Diego District Attorney’s office. A snail-​​mail spam-​​scammer was mass mailing a document that included a legal disclaimer, which the scammer was trying to make as unobtrusive as possible. The legal disclaimer was required by law to be in 12 point type. The font turned out to be a free version of Empire, with its ultra-​​narrow and super-​​thin caps and small caps. I downloaded it and as best as I could determine from a physical print-​​out comparison, it had indeed been printed at 12 points. Of course [[for reasons described more below), one could easily have modified in the reverse of the change Apple did with Zapfino, so that 12 point type would be half as big when printed. But the real problem was that Empire is an ultracondensed sans serif, rather like what one often sees in movie poster credits, and is pretty well unreadable at 12 points. If the objective was to get people to not notice the legally-​​required disclaimer, the company that wrote the letters did a great job, and seemed to have done so within the law as far as point size was considered. I told the DA’s office I was sorry, but I didn’t think I had anything that could help them.
• A couple of months ago, I was contacted by New York City lawyer Brad Richter about pretty much the same issue. Recently passed legislation around Power of Attorney in New York state requires that forms granting power of attorney be printed in 12 point type. Brad had done enough reading to strongly suspect the truth: point size doesn’t relate to anything specific in size of printed letters! Yes, given a specific font, the size of 12 point text in print is related to the font data. But 12 point in one font can be bigger or smaller than 12 point in another. If the objective was to provide useful guidance to people using typical fonts, then I’d say the law is just fine. But if we take that the objective is, as Brad described it to me, to legislate the “literal size of text – a minimum physical printed size so that the elderly can easily read the form,” then the law is useless.
• --
• point size, x-height, pica ruler measures etc are suggestions / guidelines often times written by well intentioned but technically ignorant people. i believe this is EXACTLY the problem when politicians get in over their money grubbing heads. they rely on lobbyists, trade groups or their guts to decide complicated issues. if they can’t get something as simple as “point size” right how can they legislate patents, internet law, global economic trade conflicts and taxes or “morality” issues. gentle folk i have seen the future [[ IMDB > “idiocracy” ) and we be fubared.

[Wesley Mouch]

<snip>
I believe this is EXACTLY the problem when politicians get in over their money grubbing heads. they rely on lobbyists, trade groups or their guts to decide complicated issues. if they can’t get something as simple as “point size” right how can they legislate patents, internet law, global economic trade conflicts and taxes or “morality” issues. gentle folk i have seen the future [[ IMDB > “idiocracy” ) and we be fubared.

Agreed. Keep government out of anything possible. I am in favor of laws limiting government, no matter the font size. Let's get them to write some -- like campaign finance.

[Wesley Mouch]

Bailey and Wesley, the right to a referendum is part of the Michigan constitution. If you don't believe in the right of people to exercise that right, just say so. As for the phony argument of "the unions would have done this if the tables were turned", the courts would still hold that the right for voters to decide takes precedence over claims that the font size or point size of the header justifies voters the right to vote on the law.

I agree completely with this right. My point only had to do with the outrage over tactics.

I in fact hope the law is overturned so the city can go bankrupt 100%, resulting in complete union contract nullification. This and only this will allow us to reap what we've sown -- and stop the lunacy across the state and country that will follow as other cities and states skirt real reform with half-measures such as Consent Agreements. The CA and EFM mostly benefit the status quo -- which must go.

[313WX]

I agree completely with this right. My point only had to do with the outrage over tactics.

I in fact hope the law is overturned so the city can go bankrupt 100%, resulting in complete union contract nullification. This and only this will allow us to reap what we've sown -- and stop the lunacy across the state and country that will follow as other cities and states skirt real reform with half-measures such as Consent Agreements. The CA and EFM mostly benefit the status quo -- which must go.

For the record, the repeal of the EFM law will not affect the Consent Agreement.

But I completely agree with you regarding Detroit's bankruptcy. It was never about helping the people of Detroit with the EFM or Consenmt AGreement. Most people in this state would rather Detroiters ate dirt.

[Wesley Mouch]

For the record, the repeal of the EFM law will not affect the Consent Agreement.

But I completely agree with you regarding Detroit's bankruptcy. It was never about helping the people of Detroit with the EFM or Consenmt AGreement. Most people in this state would rather Detroiters ate dirt.

313... Workers will do as well with CA or EFM, as it'll maintain some of their current wage scale. But they're only a subset of the people of Detroit.

The rest of the people of Detroit would do best by a complete 'reset button' on city government. Start over 100%. Ignore all existing agreements [[union, outsourcing, contracting, etc.). Create a new governmental structure based on today's best organizational structure. Everything on-line. Taxes electronically filed and paid. Hire IBM to build a smart city [[like Rio ... ). No political influences. No favoritism to current contractors, workers, structure. Less burden and cost to residents for government services will lead to increased employment, jobs, and will provide hope to those disenfranchised by the current administration.

Now back in the real world... it won't happen. Too many entrenched interests by business and labor.

[antongast]

Hire IBM to build a smart city [[like Rio ... ). No political influences.

The incongruity between those two sentences scrunched right up next to each other is pretty glaring. You think handing out a big fat contract to the 18th-biggest company in America would somehow be a nonpolitical process?

[Danny]

According to the Michigan State Petition Board, any petitions main title must be in boldface with a 14 point font starting from the center to both sides. The EFM petition's boldface title font was not the required 14 point needed for validation. The courts block it until the title is fixed.

Oh well! back to the drawing board.

[Wesley Mouch]

The incongruity between those two sentences scrunched right up next to each other is pretty glaring. You think handing out a big fat contract to the 18th-biggest company in America would somehow be a nonpolitical process?

Everything is political.

The City of Detroit has been handing out fat contracts for years. See Kilpatrick, Kwame [[and every other mayor since Pingree).

Might as well hand the money to someone who is actually doing something smarter today -- and not just to someone's uncle.

Or we can just continue to do what we've done because we're happy with the results we've been getting.

If you're interested... here's a link to a video on what Rio and IBM are doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBBGYFonXM

[antongast]

Everything is political.

Then why are you talking about "no political influences?" I'm thoroughly confused.

[Wesley Mouch]

Then why are you talking about "no political influences?" I'm thoroughly confused.

Not worth too much 'splainin'.... but here's a quick try:

Wesley's Dreamworld is apolitical and non-existent.

Detroit's reality is soaked in politics.

I can dream, can't I?

Thanks for indulging me.

[Novine]

"The EFM petition's boldface title font was not the required 14 point needed for validation."

Danny, besides yourself, the person who challenged the petition and the two Republicans on the board, no one else has agreed with this claim. Quit stating it as fact when there's nothing that's been shown that the claim has any basis in fact.

[bailey]

Bailey and Wesley, the right to a referendum is part of the Michigan constitution. If you don't believe in the right of people to exercise that right, just say so. As for the phony argument of "the unions would have done this if the tables were turned", the courts would still hold that the right for voters to decide takes precedence over claims that the font size or point size of the header justifies voters the right to vote on the law.

I understand it's a right. My point was to the continuing claims that somehow PA 4 itself is some form of disenfranchisement. Or the "people" didn't have a say in it's creation.

However, I do stand by the statement that this is simply those with a lot of power and influence to lose if PA 4 stands being the major players behind this. It has not one thing to do with anyone being disenfranchised.

When this gets on the ballot [[and it will because the font thing is stupid) and when it loses by a massive margin, the Unions will then take this fight to the courts because "the people" they are so concerned about spoke the wrong way and the argument will then be about protecting minorities form the "tyranny of the majority" instead of "letting the people speak".

[Wesley Mouch]

<snip>the Unions will then take this fight to the courts because "the people" they are so concerned about spoke the wrong way and the argument will then be about protecting minorities form the "tyranny of the majority" instead of "letting the people speak".

You've seen this play before, I see.

[Jimaz]

A Funeral For Democracy

Monday [[Memorial Day) at 11 AM at Galilee Baptist Church, 5251 E. Outer Drive.

[Goose]

maybe "font size" selection on a computer has nothing to do with "point" size or "pica" size...

[Jimaz]

Fontgate in Michigan!

[Meddle]

Surprised nobody brought this back yet with the Court ruling.

[Zacha341]

Font [[Typeface) and point size are directly related as the point size chosen determines how large the type will look. That is if you set the font size to 12 point, it IS 12 points.

The rub is X height in which there can a slight variable or how the font will look somewhat, one compared to another. For example, using the exact same point size Helvetica is a bit taller [[bigger) than the font Akzidenz.

Picas is a unit of measure [[6 picas make an inch) and is not a factor.

maybe "font size" selection on a computer has nothing to do with "point" size or "pica" size...

[Danny]

BUMP! There's another topic that discuss about EFM laws.