Lafayette Building next on DEGC hit list?

[buildingsofdetroit]

A City Council committee voted today not to give the Lafayette interim designation. DEGC apparently raised the issue of falling scrap prices.
More details as they come.

[GREENTROIT]

Falling scrap prices. Not pieces. $$$.

[ghettopalmetto]

A City Council committee voted today not to give the Lafayette interim designation. DEGC apparently raised the issue of falling scrap prices.
More details as they come.

Glad to see the DEGC thinks that the City is available for whoring to the highest scrap bidder.

[heywood mccrakin]

Glad to see the DEGC thinks that the City is available for whoring to the highest scrap bidder.

a couple of questions that should be asked.

Is there someone who wants it?
Is there someone who can use it?
Is there an ECONOMIC reason to keep it [[other than the fact that you love the building)?
Is there someone to pay for it?

If you have all NOs, then tear it down, and sell it for scrap.

[Fnemecek]

a couple of questions that should be asked.

Is there someone who wants it?
Is there someone who can use it?
Is there an ECONOMIC reason to keep it [[other than the fact that you love the building)?
Is there someone to pay for it?

If you have all NOs, then tear it down, and sell it for scrap.

The answer to all of those questions is maybe. No one will commit to the project - or even say whether or not it's viable - until after they've had an opportunity to go through the building and properly assess its current condition. Unfortunately, the DEGC hasn't been willing to allow such an inspection.

Without an inspection, all that anyone has is pure guess work.

[heywood mccrakin]

The answer to all of those questions is maybe. No one will commit to the project - or even say whether or not it's viable - until after they've had an opportunity to go through the building and properly assess its current condition. Unfortunately, the DEGC hasn't been willing to allow such an inspection.

Without an inspection, all that anyone has is pure guess work.

come on Frank....do you REALLY believe that people are lining up to invest in Detroit?

Not tryign to degrade you, but honestly, if you heard nationally from the real estate people I do, you would change your tune.

[Fnemecek]

come on Frank....do you REALLY believe that people are lining up to invest in Detroit?

Not trying to degrade you, but honestly, if you heard nationally from the real estate people I do, you would change your tune.

Of those national real estate people that you've heard from, how many have done an adaptive reuse of a historic structure?

This is important because there are a multitude of state and federal tax credits involved in a historic property deal that aren't applicable in other cases. They change what is viable deal and what isn't.

Contrary to what some folks believe, the historic preservation community does not go chasing after every demolition project, trying to stop it. If we don't think there's a realistic chance of making a deal work, we don't go after it.

[ghettopalmetto]

come on Frank....do you REALLY believe that people are lining up to invest in Detroit?

Not tryign to degrade you, but honestly, if you heard nationally from the real estate people I do, you would change your tune.

Well, nobody is building anything anywhere right now, so I suppose the smart thing to do is for every city in the country to demolish everything they can, right?

[rjlj]

Sure, there are plenty of uses for it. One proposal could be that the DEGC is looking at building a brand new facility for DDOT administrative offices on Washington Blvd.. Why not use the Lafayette at a fraction of the cost of building new?



http://www.degc.org/current-project-...s_title%5d+ASC



As for recovering money from scrap, you are not going to get much for it. The DEGC's new philosophy reminds me of something. Truth can be stranger than fiction.



http://www.theonion.com/content/news...sold_for_scrap

[GREENTROIT]

I would argue there is an economic reason to keep the building. The structure is presumably sound, and the building provides a framework for redevelopment. Redeveloping the Lafayette would be much cheaper than building a new structure on the same site. Unless the goal is to create a parking lot, I don't see why this needs to be destructed. I was in favor of demolishing Tiger Stadium because I didn't see a use for it, but I can envision ways that this building could be used. So if redeveloped into offices/lofts/apartments/retail, you will increase your tax base and also boost the economy by bringing in more dollars in the way of residents and employees. So I think there is an economic reason to keep it.

[heywood mccrakin]

I would argue there is an economic reason to keep the building. The structure is presumably sound, and the building provides a framework for redevelopment. Redeveloping the Lafayette would be much cheaper than building a new structure on the same site. Unless the goal is to create a parking lot, I don't see why this needs to be destructed. I was in favor of demolishing Tiger Stadium because I didn't see a use for it, but I can envision ways that this building could be used. So if redeveloped into offices/lofts/apartments/retail, you will increase your tax base and also boost the economy by bringing in more dollars in the way of residents and employees. So I think there is an economic reason to keep it.

the problem is that we likely wont have developers that are willing to make that investment in this project. Again, if you can fund it, or find funding for it, then get to it.

Unlimited timetables dont work in development.

[GREENTROIT]

the problem is that we likely wont have developers that are willing to make that investment in this project. Again, if you can fund it, or find funding for it, then get to it.

Unlimited timetables dont work in development.

Oh, you're absolutely right. My point is just that when the time comes that investors are ready to develop, it is better to have a structure already in place. Because it's cheaper it's more likely to be developed. Picture this: It's 2020 and Detroit has come back from the dead. Is a developer more likely to rehab the Lafayette or build an entirely new building on on a vacant lot where the Lafayette once stood? I think the rehab is a much more likely option, and an option I think the City should keep open.

[HazenPingree]

the problem is that we likely wont have developers that are willing to make that investment in this project. Again, if you can fund it, or find funding for it, then get to it.

Unlimited timetables dont work in development.

Unlimited timetables sure don't work... So, why would you demolish it? Demolishing it, you can never go back. If you leave it up, someone can come and request to develop on the site and demolish it... However, demolishing for the sake of "attracting investment" [[which is what they are doing) is %$#ing stupid. It never works. Donovan, Madison Lennox, Hudsons... need I continue? Our leadership needs to go. ALL OF IT.

[rjlj]

A couple of questions that should be asked.

Is the building structurally unsound?
Can a building of the same size be built for less than the cost of re-developing the building utilizing federal and state historic tax credits?
Is there a plan to re-build a new structure as soon as the old one comes down?
Is the plan for economic development in Downtown Detroit to turn all old buildings into parking lots or vacant lots?
Is the plan for economic development in Downtown Detroit to turn all old buildings into strip malls resembling the suburbs?

If you have all NOs, then why tear it down?

[detmich]

How easily could that building be wired for secure digital business systems? I know an awful lot of buildings in NY Chicago DC and Boston that were beautiful but would have cost too much to bring up to the electronic requirements of modern business.

[ghettopalmetto]

First, you tear it down becasue vacant buildings are only a drain on our resources. The cost to clear the urban dwellers, and the blight that it brings to a city are high.

Holding onto buildings for dear life becasue you think that something could be done with it is insane.

And yes, it would be nice if Detroit learned something from the suburbs. WELL RUN COMMUNITIES don't let their properties turn to rubble. WELL RUN COMMUNITIES dont have 40 year vacant properties being shown on TV as a case of "what happens when people are gone"

These horrible shopping malls seem to be raising money in the form of taxes to support local governments....something this building isnt doing.

And you are misstating something...I never said to turn ALL OLD BUILDINGS IN THE CITY into something else...just the ones that are city owned, not used, and have been vacant for 3+years.

Come up with the money...if you can't, then who do you think should pay for it?

If that kind of mentality prevailed throughout the U.S. you don't have modern-day Manhattan, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Chicago, DC, Richmond, Charleston, Savannah, Baltimore, Miami Beach, San Francisco, and on and on and on.

[ghettopalmetto]

How so?

give me some examples of buildings in those cities that were rehabbed like the Lafayette that are now thriving....ones that sat vacant for 13 years, and were rehabbed during a down ecconomy.

Silly. Do you think the economy will never rebound?

I'm so tired of idiots like George Jackson taking ONE data point and extrapolating it into some kind of trend. "Well, gee, the economy sucks *today*, so we *have* to tear down this building on which we're not spending any money."

[bailey]

Silly. Do you think the economy will never rebound?

The economy rebounding and Detroit "coming back" are two different things. If the last 20 years hasn't shown that, well, you are ignoring reality.

[ghettopalmetto]

The economy rebounding and Detroit "coming back" are two different things. If the last 20 years hasn't shown that, well, you are ignoring reality.

When you're sufficiently vague with a phrase like "Detroit 'coming back' ", it's pretty easy to be right, isn't it?

Let's look at the past 20 years. During up economic cycles, we've seen places like the Fox Theatre, Michigan Opera Theatre, the Book-Cadillac, Renaissance Center, and Hotel Fort Shelby get renovated. What ONE new development has occurred as a direct result of a demolition in the past 20 years? If, during a down economic cycle, those buildings had been demolished [[as intended), you don't have those buildings there today paying taxes. Empty lots do not a city make, my friend.

[kraig]

Here's a thought for any historic conservancy groups out there. Identify a building that you feel is worth saving, develop a business plan, identify funding, and get the property before it falls into the hands of the DEGC.

[ghettopalmetto]

BINGO! Hit the nail on the head

Likewise, why don't you pony up the cash for every *publicly-owned* building you want demolished?

You completely misunderstand the role of a conservancy group, which is to preserve architectural heritage and economic competitiveness on behalf of the larger community. "Conservancy" is not synonymous with developer.

Folks like Preservation Wayne and Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy have every right to demand responsible use of public resources.

[rjlj]

Here's a thought for any historic conservancy groups out there. Identify a building that you feel is worth saving, develop a business plan, identify funding, and get the property before it falls into the hands of the DEGC.

Already happening, though the part about getting a property before it falls into the hands of the DECG is a tough one.

[Fnemecek]

Here's a thought for any historic conservancy groups out there. Identify a building that you feel is worth saving, develop a business plan, identify funding, and get the property before it falls into the hands of the DEGC.

Trying to save a building before it falls into the hand of the DEGC is like trying to save a whale before it gets into the water. One of the fundamental problems with Detroit is that the DEGC has its hands in everything.

[Huggybear]

That might be asking too much.

If this goes the way people here think it will, I'll make this prediction - people will realize that they got distracted with Tiger Stadium when they should have had their eyes on the Lafayette Building, and the Lafayette Building was a distraction when people should have been trying to save Washington Boulevard. Reacting will never cut it - nor will sitting on the sidelines with a Messianic complex [[seen in the 1,000+ posts that could be summarized as "if those poor idiots only knew what they were doing, they could redevelop this property").

My fear would be that what happened with the effort to save Tiger Stadium is going to have a negative effect on marginal redevelopment projects in general.

Here's a thought for any historic conservancy groups out there. Identify a building that you feel is worth saving, develop a business plan, identify funding, and get the property before it falls into the hands of the DEGC.

[ghettopalmetto]

The economy in Metro Detroit isnt returning for 2 years AT LEAST....the economy for the CBD? well that is a different story.

Yeah, you're right. Two years--what an eternity. Better demolish every fucking last thing RIGHT NOW.