"Mr. President, Please Drive Through Detroit"

[vetalalumni]

The thing is, the police aren't supposed to decide what punishment people get. That is the job of the judiciary. The only job of the police is to execute the enforcement of laws, not deal out beatings or harsh treatment.

I thought we learned that lesson with STRESS in the 1970s.

Excellent point.

[BillyBBrew]

I didn't take 48091's post [[clarified) to mean anything other than the police need to enforce the laws and bring the people to the courts, as opposed to overlooking things and letting people go wehn they are commiting minor crimes. Being strict does not mean beating people and bashing heads.

The thing is, the police aren't supposed to decide what punishment people get. That is the job of the judiciary. The only job of the police is to execute the enforcement of laws, not deal out beatings or harsh treatment.

I thought we learned that lesson with STRESS in the 1970s.

[Hermod]

The Great Society also ameliorated poverty in America. People were lifted out of poverty. That's why free market purists like to make fun of it, denigrate it and propagandize against it.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea....califano.html

Whatever advances were made in the amelioration of poverty were quickly wiped out by the rolling recessions of the Ford-Carter years and the runaway inflation of the 1970s.

I would add to the wrongs perpetrated by LBJ, the "unified budget". If we could "balkanize" the budget into a set of programs each with its own tax or taxes to support it, we could quickly find the source of the deficits. The, if a specific program is in the red, we could either reduce spending or raise the targeted taxes for that particular program. In other words, everything has its own budget and we do not have all of this wasted blather about an Air Force bomber costing as much as 100 schools.

[sam]

Whatever advances were made in the amelioration of poverty were quickly wiped out by the rolling recessions of the Ford-Carter years and the runaway inflation of the 1970s.

I would add to the wrongs perpetrated by LBJ, the "unified budget". If we could "balkanize" the budget into a set of programs each with its own tax or taxes to support it, we could quickly find the source of the deficits. The, if a specific program is in the red, we could either reduce spending or raise the targeted taxes for that particular program. In other words, everything has its own budget and we do not have all of this wasted blather about an Air Force bomber costing as much as 100 schools.

It sounds like you are actually asking for an accounting system. Are you on drugs? That is the absolutely the last thing any politician would want -- accountability. Government programs have long ceased to be primarily for the public good, they are primarily a means of bribing people with their own money.

What seems to me to be absolutely hilarious are the comments on this topic asking the question of why Obama will not come to tour Detroit? Well, for starters there really are no groups left to divide and conquer in Detroit; the population has been vanishing for more than half a century. In addition, what are you going to get if you bribe whoever is left? Certainly not campaign contributions, and the voting block is pretty much sown up. If you are too stupid to see who Obama caters to - Warren Buffet [[his railroad is taking the place of the Keystone pipeline), more Goldman Sachs executives that can throw money at his campaign, Hollywood types that can not only throw money at him, but produce free campaign propaganda....

Detroit ran out of other people, and especially other people's money a long time ago. Nothing is going to change in Detroit until the mind set changes and apparently that mind set is pretty much cast in concrete. And if you think it will make a damn bit of difference whether you get a corrupt Republican administration or the present corrupt Democratic administration, which happens to be running on steroids, well, what can I say, you probably will not survive.

My advice for Detroit, and I grew up in HP about 50 years ago, is plant a garden, and start worrying about your own personal ability to survive because the die has been cast and Depression phase II is right around the corner. Greece is in the process of becoming Detroit. Perhaps you can export your experience there. Apparently, the Greeks ran out of other people's money, which apparently happened to be the German's. Guess how that is going to turn out?

[Detroitnerd]

Whatever advances were made in the amelioration of poverty were quickly wiped out by the rolling recessions of the Ford-Carter years and the runaway inflation of the 1970s.

Sigh. This is what a lot of free market purists want everybody to believe. No, you don't wipe out poverty with inflation.

When a child is able to eat breakfast every morning, their brain develops normally and they are able to learn for the rest of their life without a handicap. This is not wiped out by inflation.

When families are lifted out of poverty, parents don't split up over money problems, and their combined effort to raise children isn't compromised. A lot of split marriages arise from money troubles more than any deep character flaw. These gains aren't wiped out by a recession.

When communities are lifted out of poverty, there is less reason to commit crime. The people not robbed, not shot, not jailed are real gains, and not wiped out by any later fragile economic condition.

The fact is, if we hadn't had the War on Poverty, we would have gone into those fragile 1970s with tens of millions more poor people. Perhaps that doesn't bother you, perhaps you'd like to argue that away, but for the majority of Americans, that would be called a gain. Truly sorry you don't feel that way.

[Scottathew]

Imagine if we spent 1 trillion dollars on helping out people here in America, instead of spending it on killing over 100,000 innocent Iraqi people in a needless, baseless war based on falsehoods.

[Wesley Mouch]

Imagine if we spent 1 trillion dollars on helping out people here in America, instead of spending it on killing over 100,000 innocent Iraqi people in a needless, baseless war based on falsehoods.

I would guess we have spent 1 trillion on urban America, and the results appear to have been about the same. So please don't send us any more money. That's just been corrupting things.

[Detroitnerd]

Imagine if we spent 1 trillion dollars on helping out people here in America, instead of spending it on killing over 100,000 innocent Iraqi people in a needless, baseless war based on falsehoods.

I agree with you there, 48091.

[prokopowicz]

Sigh. This is what a lot of free market purists want everybody to believe. No, you don't wipe out poverty with inflation.

When a child is able to eat breakfast every morning, their brain develops normally and they are able to learn for the rest of their life without a handicap. This is not wiped out by inflation.

When families are lifted out of poverty, parents don't split up over money problems, and their combined effort to raise children isn't compromised. A lot of split marriages arise from money troubles more than any deep character flaw. These gains aren't wiped out by a recession.

When communities are lifted out of poverty, there is less reason to commit crime. The people not robbed, not shot, not jailed are real gains, and not wiped out by any later fragile economic condition.

The fact is, if we hadn't had the War on Poverty, we would have gone into those fragile 1970s with tens of millions more poor people. Perhaps that doesn't bother you, perhaps you'd like to argue that away, but for the majority of Americans, that would be called a gain. Truly sorry you don't feel that way.

There must be better theoretical justifications for reducing poverty than the ones just listed. Better learning? SAT scores and graduation rates don't reflect this. More stable families? Why would you offer that as an example? Reduced crime? Yes, recently, after increasing for about 25 years after the War on Poverty.

You can make a hypothetical argument that it would have been worse without the war on poverty but that is unconvincing without some kind of compelling evidence. It's probably more convincing simply to argue that those who get out of poverty have a better life for it, and anyone can take satisfaction in that, than to claim broader benefits that can't actually be seen.

[Richard]

I have long held the position that Detroit has experienced a long-running disaster, a slow motion Katrina, a spread-out 911. In the process we have experienced more deaths and destruction of business and personal properties, with tens of thousands of buildings and lives destroyed, than those two events combined.

Because our 'death of a thousand cuts' does not smack the national conscience in the face the the way the compacted disasters of Katrina and 911 have, we get scorn instead of sympathy -- and certainly not the instant billions with presidents and politicians posturing atop our ruins with firefighters.

Our de facto carpet-bombing is quietly and conveniently shelved. I would love to take any President or politicians on a fabulous ruins of Detroit tour.

I even have a back-burner project called 'Detroit Destroyed on on Week'. Using aerial animations and scatter charts cut in with street views it would compress 4 decades of death and destruction into a one week newsreel story.

Is it time to re-brand our disaster?

I agree with you 100% but the problem is because no natural disaster has accrued it would be impossible for the fed to per-say cut a multi billion dollar check. The rest of the country would have a fit.

So how does Detroit get these funds without causing a stir?
You have to kinda look at the past and work from there looking at why the disinterest and I would think the number one reason would be is that because of the condition of the city and how it was being run it kinda gives the perception of how the residents did not care enough to better the city so if they did not care why should anybody else,and why should anybody else pay for the few that profited from the mayhem.

So that is in the past looking into the future many do not realize how many doors are being opened up although be it at a very slow pace.

Corruption is being dealt with aggressively on the fed level.

New charter which will not only bring the city more in touch with its people but open the door for even more levels of neighborhood stabilization funds,historic funds etc. the problem before was the neighborhoods had no representation within the city and the funds that should have helped were diverted ,does anybody really believe that if a concile member was living on a street that had a crack house that house would still exist?

Light rail although needed on one hand is also a publicity tool of sorts that speaks volumes.

What is somebody in other cities going to think ? Detroit ? you mean the city that nobody cares about is getting light rail ,it is considered a very progressive move in some circles,even if it only goes 3 miles.

There are a lot of little back doors for funding allocation the trick is too keep it even sorta a tit for tat thing.kinda like you have to lay the ground work first so the funding goes where it is intended which is to help the people and not line somebodies pocket, people understand that,they do not understand giving a crackhead money to buy crack.Not inferring disrespect it is just a reference.

So Detroit is at 28% of people that take a vested interest in their city and it really has come a long way in the last couple of years and should be proud of those accomplishments ,if they can get the property tax situation under control it may just push them over the tipping point throw a mayor and city government that is a bit more receptive of their people would not hurt also.But that in it self is hard to pass judgement on considering what he is up against.

Other then figuring out how to flood the city for a day I do not know but in reality those cities that received fed aid to rebuild? Halliburton and it subsidiaries are the one that comes out smelling like a rose its the insurance company payouts that really funded the rebuilding.

Its a slow process and unfortunately it is the little guy at the street level that sees the results last in line.

[Detroitnerd]

There must be better theoretical justifications for reducing poverty than the ones just listed.

Whatever. I'm no expert. All I'll tell you is that the War on Poverty sure as hell didn't make things worse for the poor.

[Scottathew]

I agree with you there, 48091.

There's a first time for everything :-)

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

I have long held the position that Detroit has experienced a long-running disaster, a slow motion Katrina, a spread-out 911. In the process we have experienced more deaths and destruction of business and personal properties, with tens of thousands of buildings and lives destroyed, than those two events combined.



Because our 'death of a thousand cuts' does not smack the national conscience in the face the the way the compacted disasters of Katrina and 911 have, we get scorn instead of sympathy -- and certainly not the instant billions with presidents and politicians posturing atop our ruins with firefighters.

Our de facto carpet-bombing is quietly and conveniently shelved. I would love to take any President or politicians on a fabulous ruins of Detroit tour.

I even have a back-burner project called 'Detroit Destroyed on on Week'. Using aerial animations and scatter charts cut in with street views it would compress 4 decades of death and destruction into a one week newsreel story.

Is it time to re-brand our disaster?

Well said Lowell,
I've always tried to describe some of the Detroit neighborhoods [[not all) to others who are not from here to try and imagine what Berlin looked like in say 1948 several years after the war and the level of destruction that was everywhere... only in their case all able bodied men and women ages 15 to 65 chipped in to pick up the pieces.