Opinion: Lansing’s Ascared of Detroit

[shovelhead]

In Detroit, Snyder got 9,357 votes and Virg Bernero got 164,400. That's 164,400 people who denied that Snyder was more qualified.

Synder got 5% of the vote in Detroit and 61% in the rest of the state. Synder won by almost 600,000 votes overall. Detroit didn't do much for Snyder ...

IMO the reason the Detroit vote went for Bernero was not the candidate but the party. Since 1952 [[and earlier but this is all I looked up) Detroit and Wayne County has gone Democratic in every Presidential election. Look at this map:http://geoelections.free.fr/USA/elec_comtes/1952.htm

More business as usual. Do it the way we always did it in the past and hope for a different result.

[casscorridor]

Detroit is a product of capitalism. It is as simple as that. So yeah, stop the blame game and realize Detroit is not a product of ignorance or wong/lack of voting, apathy or laziness. It is the dynamics of production. Auto industy boom = million jobs, but capital is always looking for cheaper and more profitable horizons... Hense flight of capital from Michigan. Remember, Michigan was the only state to loose population. If you think this a Detroit problem think again. As far as race, isn't it convenient that the rulers of the state play the race card to divide us againt ourselves and distract us from the real enemy? Classic scapegoat and divide and conquer.

[shovelhead]

Both sides have played that card...........no one can deny that.

[antongast]

IMO the reason the Detroit vote went for Bernero was not the candidate but the party. Since 1952 [[and earlier but this is all I looked up) Detroit and Wayne County has gone Democratic in every Presidential election. Look at this map:http://geoelections.free.fr/USA/elec_comtes/1952.htm

More business as usual. Do it the way we always did it in the past and hope for a different result.

I don't think it's any great mystery why Detroiters don't vote for Republicans, and "business as usual" ain't got nothing to do with it. But I guess looking at Detroit as a city full of rational human beings who respond to incentives like anybody else doesn't fit with your narrative, you've got to ascribe some kind of pathology to us instead, so hey, carry on.

[Wesley Mouch]

If you're tired of the 'poor me' argument, read this column by a black man about 'Race and Rhetoric' [[Sowell, 3/20/2012).

[downtownguy]

IMO the reason the Detroit vote went for Bernero was not the candidate but the party.

Bernero was light years ahead of Snyder in understanding the issues facing cities. After watching their debate, I thought Bernero had it wrapped up. He whupped Snyder. Snyder talked in these vague generalities, and Bernero had specifics. But lots of people don't bother understanding the issues or watching debates. And that goes for people outside of Detroit, too.

[shovelhead]

And when I first heard Bernero during the primaries on the Paul W. Smith show I had positive feelings towards him. As the campaign progressed I liked him less and less.

I really didn't like his "In your face" attitude and the mudslinging against Snyder. Kind of reminded me of schoolyard name calling. I didn't feel that we needed that, not that it is acceptable at any time.

The only thing that would have been fun IMO would be to see who Bernero would blame all his inherited problems on.

[iheartthed]

ihearthed,

I don't to sound like I'm beating up on you in these posts but the GM rescue needs to be addressed.

Remember the old joke regarding the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different outcome? Well, GM has done it again. Their "Brilliant" move a few weeks ago to buy a 7% share in French automaker Peugeot.

Here are a couple of links:http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ut-for-france/
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/update...20120323-00452

GM IPO of it's stock was mid thirty dollar range. Today it's mid twenty dollar range. Seems that a wiser use of 400 million dollars would have been for GM to buy it's own stock from the U.S. instead of dumping it down a rathole in France. And as the U.S. Government is a owner of IIRC 26.7% of GM, why didn't they step in and say no to this deal?

In my opinion the only reasons the U.S, Government has not put the rest of it's GM stock on the market is first, it would not recoup it's investment at today's price, and that flooding the market with it's 26 +/- share would further depress the stock price.

Still, you have to wonder what was going through their heads to buy into Peugeot.

And I'm tied in a fringe way to the auto industry for my whole working career and would have been affected if it had gone away. But actions like this post bankruptcy make me scratch my head and say ????? And it's my tax dollars too.

My point wasn't so much whether GM is better off or worse. My point was that GM -- and to a lesser extent Chrysler -- were integral enough to the American economy that the people in charge thought it was worth saving, even if it was a VERY very unpopular position at the time. So, by the same token, just because the majority of Michigan residents who don't live in Detroit don't see the value in saving it doesn't mean that the failure of the city won't affect them in a bad way.

Btw, I just recently sold off all my GM shares at a loss before that was announced. My own personal opinion is that the Puegot-GM deal was about streamlining production over there. Europe has a contracting auto market and probably has too many auto manufacturers grasping for shrinking pieces of the pie.

[Wesley Mouch]

ihearthed,
... Well, GM has done it again. Their "Brilliant" move a few weeks ago to buy a 7% share in French automaker Peugeot.
...
GM IPO of it's stock was mid thirty dollar range. Today it's mid twenty dollar range. Seems that a wiser use of 400 million dollars would have been for GM to buy it's own stock from the U.S. instead of dumping it down a rathole in France. And as the U.S. Government is a owner of IIRC 26.7% of GM, why didn't they step in and say no to this deal?...

1) Why is Peugeot a 'rathole in France'.

2) You don't like that the gov.t got involved w/ GM, then you ask them to intervene. I guess the more the government gets involved, the better?

3) Mid 20's for GM is a buy. Go make some money. [[Disclosure: I have some GM stock from the mid-30's.)

[shovelhead]

I never said that I was against the government bailout. It was necessary to save GM and Chrysler. It was unfortunate that they got in that position. Some things were beyond their control, some were not.

But I question business dealings that seem to repeat the mistakes of the past. And so did ABC News in the link I posted. Peugeot is in financial trouble, will GM lose it's investment there?

[Wheels]

I don't think it's any great mystery why Detroiters don't vote for Republicans, and "business as usual" ain't got nothing to do with it. But I guess looking at Detroit as a city full of rational human beings who respond to incentives like anybody else doesn't fit with your narrative, you've got to ascribe some kind of pathology to us instead, so hey, carry on.

Now that is funny!

[Hypestyles]

the state legislature is still too full of tea party acolytes, for there to be much fair-mindedness in trying to help out Detroit.. the animosity toward detroit in the past is never acknowledged.. the barely veiled assumptions that everyone who "defends" Detroit or asserts that the EFM won't be all its cracked up to be is a Kwame apologist is outright absurd and speaks volumes on how they really feel about the detroit contstituency in general.. as long as "numbers" get balanced, quality of life for people who live there doesn't much matter..

[gnome]

Hyperstyles, have you had a head injury?

Did you not see the Governor and the Treasurer down here this past week offering help? By my count there have been three proposals from Lansing, each one greeted with charmlessness.

Get this: you will never, ever get anymore free money from Lansing because you don't know how to account for anything. You spend money like water, have no freaking idea what you spent it on and the only thing you do know is that you need more.

Hyperstyles, people have been lining up to help and you got out of your way to fart at them.

"we're here to help!"

"Go away, but give me money first."

"gosh, I'd love to but what did do with that last billion?"

"Racist!"

See, HS, the 93% of the population that does not live in Detroit is way over even thinking about dropping a sack of dough on your lawn and driving back home. That train, bus and donkey cart left a long while ago and they ain't coming back.

It is not because of any reason than you don't know how to account for the money you spend. Millions down rat holes and no one knows where it went. Sub par services yet one of the highest millage rates around.

The louder you yell, the fewer people pay attention. The fewer people care what you think or whether your little fweelings are hurt.

You will get help, because the regular citizens don't deserve what their representatives have done to them; however, that does not mean those same folks who misspent it before get another bite ate the apple.

Oh no, that doesnt work anymore. You representatives have lied to you, have stolen from you, have robbed your children of a prosperous future; up and down the line your Representatives have betrayed your trust.

[313WX]

the state legislature is still too full of tea party acolytes, for there to be much fair-mindedness in trying to help out Detroit.. the animosity toward detroit in the past is never acknowledged.. the barely veiled assumptions that everyone who "defends" Detroit or asserts that the EFM won't be all its cracked up to be is a Kwame apologist is outright absurd and speaks volumes on how they really feel about the detroit contstituency in general.. as long as "numbers" get balanced, quality of life for people who live there doesn't much matter..

And thus the crux of the crap.

This is really nothing more than a last ditch effort for the state and the suburbs to protect its prvious bond rating from the long-time brewing bankruptcy of this state's by far largest municipality. Thy wouldn't care if the citizens of Detroit ate dirt otherwise, nor would they care if the city of Detroit slid into the river as long as thy can preserve the Red Wings, Tigers and Lions.

[corktownyuppie]

And thus the crux of the crap.

This is really nothing more than a last ditch effort for the state and the suburbs to protect its prvious bond rating from the long-time brewing bankruptcy of this state's by far largest municipality. Thy wouldn't care if the citizens of Detroit ate dirt otherwise, nor would they care if the city of Detroit slid into the river as long as thy can preserve the Red Wings, Tigers and Lions.

Agreed. I do feel compelled to add one thing, though. People outside the city would feel a little more empathy for the citizens of the city if we in the city could demonstrate that we care about the city, too.

Instead, what happens is that our actions and our words only serve to show that we care more about our egos and the pride of our identity more than we care about keeping the lights on.

From that point of view, I kinda see where the people outside of the city are coming from, too.

[Wesley Mouch]

Agreed. I do feel compelled to add one thing, though. People outside the city would feel a little more empathy for the citizens of the city if we in the city could demonstrate that we care about the city, too.

Instead, what happens is that our actions and our words only serve to show that we care more about our egos and the pride of our identity more than we care about keeping the lights on.

From that point of view, I kinda see where the people outside of the city are coming from, too.

Thanks for this. Its a simple but powerful through.

One of those jewels of wisdom that keeps me coming here.

[GUSHI]

I see Detroit having a white mayor in less than 20 years, the older African Americans passing on, more black flight, more whites moving back, and the rise of black on black crime, 40 years of the same old shit needs to change,

[Wesley Mouch]

I see Detroit having a white mayor in less than 20 years, the older African Americans passing on, more black flight, more whites moving back, and the rise of black on black crime, 40 years of the same old shit needs to change,

I see Detroit having a competent mayor. Who cares about her race?

[GUSHI]

Apparently a lot of the Current citizens of Detroit, you been watching the news at all?

[313WX]

I see Detroit having a competent mayor. Who cares about her race?

And who cares about his sex?

[Wesley Mouch]

And who cares about his sex?

We all care about KK's sex, didn't we?

[313WX]

We all care about KK's sex, didn't we?

I see Detroit having a competent mayor. Who cares about her race?

Maybe you did, "WE" didn't care about his sex life.

In any event, I do see Detroit having a competent mayor as well [[likely not in our lifetime, but I see it happening), but we shouldn't worry about his gender either just as we shouldn't worry about his race.

[corktownyuppie]

Maybe you did, "WE" didn't care about his sex life.

In any event, I do see Detroit having a competent mayor as well [[likely not in our lifetime, but I see it happening), but we shouldn't worry about his gender either just as we shouldn't worry about his race.

I think we need to look past the people and instead look at the dynamics. For example, 7 competent, highly qualified leaders can all of a sudden look petty, conniving, and foolish if you put them on the TV show, "Survivor".

Much of the problems we face are because the government systems we set up 50 years ago are working against us. What we really need is 8-10 smart, hard working, trustworthy leaders to work together and solve problems. The problem is that even if we found those people, as soon as they show up in city hall, the political pressures that are thrust upon them by 40+ unions, 32x debt-to-asset ratio, incendiary language from political activists trying to "prove a point", and a system of laws that protect individual property rights at the expense of the greater good...

It doesn't matter who you put in office. They're going to go crazy. Of course, to add insult to injury, Detroit hasn't exactly been putting the brightest and best in those positions, either.

That's why the consent agreement can be such a powerful thing. It allows the political leadership the political shelter to just make all the hard decisions that will piss people off. But they need to happen. People are going to have to relocate if we will need to consolidate our population and decrease our structural costs. Entire departments are going to have to disappear, and we don't have time to allow for each department a 2-3 year negotiation period to get it done.

Those things I mention above fly in the face of the gridlock that comes with democratic process. But if there's a situation where the democratic process is actually working against us, it's here in Detroit.

I know that's hard to hear. And I recognize that it strikes fear into the heart of Detroiters.

At the same time, 50% of Detroiters used the democratic process to vote with their feet and move out of the city. That's not helping us either.

Detroit is in such dire straits, that it no longer makes sense to argue about whose fault it is. We need to look at what needs to be done. Then we need to look at how we can suspend the democratic process to have that done sooner rather later, otherwise we'll lose another 50% of our population.

Shrink the city. Consolidate our geography. Densify our population. Eliminate unnecessary costs. Where a private sector alternative can demonstrate savings or increase in service, outsource. Take every valuable asset and do whatever needs to be done to maximize its revenue...even if it means that Detroiters can no longer enjoy it for free.

I mean, at the end of the day, I think Detroiters will be happy to forego free trips to Belle Isle if it means that we put more cops on the street.

We do these things -- quickly -- and we can turn this around over the next 5-10 years.

[Zacha341]

No. Adultery has been going on forever across the globe. It was the subsidizing with city resources, departments and tax payer money of his 'sex life' that was the problem! Specifically the charges of obstruction of justice, perjury et al to keep his 'groove' thang going. That was the issue.

We all care about KK's sex, didn't we?

[313WX]

No. Adultery has been going on forever across the globe. It was the subsidizing with city resources, departments and tax payer money of his 'sex life' that was the problem! Specifically the charges of obstruction of justice, perjury et al to keep his 'groove' thang going. That was the issue.

Exactly. That's the same way I saw the whole Kwame situation as well.