Opinion: Lansing’s Ascared of Detroit

[iheartthed]

Here folks is a perfect example of how Detroiters think.

Uh, yeah, whatever.

[Coaccession]

Healing Detroit is in all our interests. It requires a lot of money....

Owning the DIA collection certainly gives Detroit a lot of money, Lowell...

... attention and burden sharing by the entire metro and state. Our image, brand identity, manufactured products reputation and humanity all rise and fall with the City of Detroit.

... but it seems Detroit's own Mayor and City Council would rather take a chance on Detroit falling than talk publicly about using the City's own money to save it. When the Founders Society starts calling attention to Detroit's own financial resources at the DIA and expresses a willingness to share the burden by exploring whether and how the City's artworks can do double duty rather than single duty, they'll add a lot of credibility to calls for the rest of the metro and state to also share the burden. Instead, the Founders Society calls for a tri-county millage to save themselves the trouble of raising the funds to run the DIA -- even though that fundraising was precisely the promise they made in 1998 to get the outsourcing contract that displaced all the City employees that used to run the DIA. If Detroit is unwilling to even discuss how best to use its own biggest financial resource to save itself, it doesn't show the rest of Michigan and the world much concern for its own image, brand identity, manufactured products reputation and humanity.

It's no wonder Lansing takes Detroit's problems on reluctantly.

[iheartthed]

If you ever needed proof that the average age of Michigan residents was beginning to look something like an AARP membership list then look no further than this thread. Same ol' turf wars and bickering over nonsense while the house burns. And if that wasn't enough you have some troll in here using the word "whitey" like it's still 1972.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Many good points on this here thread. But company parts when the notion that Detroit has no relevance enters. It's just not true, and anyone who can look at the bigger picture objectively should agree.

We are the largest population center in the state. We sit in the middle of the the largest population center for hundreds of miles in every direction. We also hold the greatest concentration of industrial business in the state. We house almost all of the major federal agencies located in MI other than the military. The largest portion of the great icons that our state identifies with are here. We stand to lose a lot of this if we can't get our shit together.

Detroit, IMO and several others, has the greatest potential for growth compared to any other urban center in the state. We just need to clean our house up..... or rebuild it. Whatever.

Lots of folks from the D, HP, and Hamtown voted for Snyder, he was way more qualified for the job and that was hard to deny.


And it's true hijinx, you sound like a troll. Just sayin.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

People in Detroit that think Lansing or Washington or the suburbs or The Man or the automakers or anyone else *owes* Detroit money remind me of my Uncle John. My Uncle John is our family bum. The oldest of 10 kids, he was given a great education, but spent a life feeling like he didn't have to work. Spent every penny [[including his father's small fortune that was supposed to take care of his mother and her other 9 kids when he was gone) on the ponies. A drunk, a thief, and a self-deciever who has always felt entitled. Entering old age alone, penniless, and so full of bile none of us even invite him over for holiday dinners anymore. Detroit is *owed* nothing. The city and it's residents [[self included) should be thankful and respectful for any help we get; and prepare to move forward with little or no help at all. That's what grown-ups do. Uncle John never grew up, although he got old. Detroit can choose to be a responsible adult, or we can choose not to, and we will need to be treated like the children we act like.

[Det_ard]

Lots of folks from the D, HP, and Hamtown voted for Snyder, he was way more qualified for the job and that was hard to deny.

In Detroit, Snyder got 9,357 votes and Virg Bernero got 164,400. That's 164,400 people who denied that Snyder was more qualified.

Synder got 5% of the vote in Detroit and 61% in the rest of the state. Synder won by almost 600,000 votes overall. Detroit didn't do much for Snyder ...

[Wesley Mouch]

Watching the whole EFM / Consent Agreement dance has led me to the opinion that Lansing, meaning the Governor and legislature, is afraid of taking over Detroit. They could easily point to the numbers and take over the city. But I believe they are dearly praying that they can succeed in twisting enough arms to obtain a consent agreement that will leave the hamstrung governance of Detroit under local control.

Why?

<snip>

...What do you think?

So long as Detroit stays in trouble, Lansing has Detroit under control.

That's the funny thing here. Those who are fighting the EFM are really keeping Detroit oppressed.

Snyder on the other hand is potentially unleashing power that he doesn't control.

But he's a leader. And sometimes leaders do things that might be bad in the short-run for long-term success. Detroit's success in this case.

[Wesley Mouch]

Can anyone show an example of how the the Sate was successfull in "helping" ANY of the cities it has taken over? Thats the problem. not that we dont want the help or dont need it cause we do. But help is just that help. Not Takeover. Look @ DPS. The State has been "helping" it for the last few years and I'd rather not have had that kind of "help"

Hamtramck's EFM did the job. Have heard good things about Benton Harbor.

I don't buy the Union argument that the State failed with the DPS.

Do you expect a magic wand? What you get from the State is only a trip to the Emergency Room and some stabilization. That's it.

[SteveJ]

Can we please move on from the DPS. The DPS is a product of Detroit ghetto culture. Unless you change the parents and the students, you'll get the same results. When someone has 10 kids with 6 different daddys and is on welfare, then the situation is hopeless. I read somewhere that over 75 percent of kids are from singe parent homes. That says it all right there.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think everyone should remember that EFMs are not appointed to fix the city [[or school district), they are appointed to shore up the finances. An EFM is there as the last speed bump before bankruptcy and default. Take that away, and we have bankruptcy and default.

[antongast]

Hamtramck's EFM did the job.

I thought they were in financial trouble again?

I don't buy the Union argument that the State failed with the DPS.

Robert Bobb objectively increased the deficit. If the idea was to fix the finances, then state control of DPS has been a disaster. When Bobb was first appointed, I thought nobody could possibly do a worse job running the district than Otis Mathis and Reverend David Murray; clearly, I was wrong.

If I were a cynical sort of person, I might suggest that the actual goal of state intervention was to break DPS beyond repair so that the kinds of people who profit from school privatization could swoop in and profit, but I'm not, so I won't.

Do you expect a magic wand? What you get from the State is only a trip to the Emergency Room and some stabilization. That's it.

I don't expect a magic wand, but it seems like a lot of the pro-EM folks on here do. If you don't, then good for you, but I'm still unconvinced that Detroit will come out the other side of an EM or consent agreement in significantly better shape than we're entering it.

[internet_pseudopod]

Can we please move on from the DPS. The DPS is a product of Detroit ghetto culture....

Nope. The state swore they could fix it not once but twice. In both instances they came up with negative results. It's sort of like they are screwing Detroit for the lulz. The first time they promise to fix academics and end up turning a surplus to a deficit. They then return to fix the deficit and in turn only make it worse. The brain trust of the state can't be trusted to enact proper reforms without supervision.

[renf]

Is it correct that the bond issues who have loaned the city of Detroit funds, have a clause that specifies that they must be $500 immediately if the state appoints an Emergency Financial Manager? Would Governor Snyder and the state legislature be able to immediately deliver $500 million to those who hold the bonds that have been supporting Detroit. Would the state avoid a payment of $500 if an Emergency Financial Manager were not appointed?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Is it correct that the bond issues who have loaned the city of Detroit funds, have a clause that specifies that they must be $500 immediately if the state appoints an Emergency Financial Manager? Would Governor Snyder and the state legislature be able to immediately deliver $500 million to those who hold the bonds that have been supporting Detroit. Would the state avoid a payment of $500 if an Emergency Financial Manager were not appointed?

I cannot imagine that the City would have had legal authority when issuing bonds to give preferential status to some creditors over others; there are US and I am sure state laws governing financial insolvency for municipalities, just as there are for private individuals and businesses. You can't strike a deal with the phone company that assured them being paid over the electric company should you default on your loans. If no EM, a federal bankruptcy judge will have the power to decide which creditors get money, in what order, and how many cents on the dollar. Some will not be paid at all. Sure to be unpaid are retiree pensions and insurance benefits.

[Roq]

Detroit is ignored, because it is ignorable. [snipped for space]

Excellent post Gnome. I work with people every day who haven't been in Detroit in years and couldn't care less if it fell off the face of the Earth. Also, when I think of Detroit voters, fierce does not come to mind; apathetic does.

[Detroit Stylin]

Can we please move on from the DPS. The DPS is a product of Detroit ghetto culture. Unless you change the parents and the students, you'll get the same results. When someone has 10 kids with 6 different daddys and is on welfare, then the situation is hopeless. I read somewhere that over 75 percent of kids are from singe parent homes. That says it all right there.

Care to elaborate further? Of course not becuase you truly believe that and who else could you possibly be thinking of when you throw out that term 'ghetto culture'....

[Lowell]

Lansing doesn't want your problems, they have enough of their own, but you refuse to address the reality that your elected leaders have betrayed you. 10,000 people a year elect they want to sleep in safety, 10,000 people say enough is enough.

What you say is very true. But read another way, and the point I opinionate, Lansing [like the legislative majority] does want ‘your’ problem. There are political and economic advantages to having a crippled Detroit remain unfixed, providing a place into which problems and what are perceived of as problem people can be walled off. A place where blame can be placed and people scolded.

Insurance companies have to love Detroit's problems. They get to charge some the highest rates in the nation and, surprise surprise, a rising tide lifts all ships allowing them to raise rates for all of us.

Politicians in other communities get to provide substandard or mediocre services and then say, 'we are better than Detroit at least'.

A failing Detroit with tens of thousands of abandoned residential units might appear blighted to some eyes but has to glitter like gold to those realtors, builders and bankers on the fringes whose businesses have benefited so greatly from it. A market that discards its houses rather than recycling them is the best of all possible worlds for them.

[Novine]

"Can we please move on from the DPS. The DPS is a product of Detroit ghetto culture. Unless you change the parents and the students, you'll get the same results. When someone has 10 kids with 6 different daddys and is on welfare, then the situation is hopeless. I read somewhere that over 75 percent of kids are from singe parent homes. That says it all right there."

Last time I checked, those parents and those kids weren't left in charge of the school district's finances. How glibly you dismiss Bobb's failure to do his job.

[SteveJ]

The reason is simple. Parents took their kids out and sent them to inner ring suburban schools. Less kids equates to less funding and the downward spiral begins.

[gnome]

Lowell, suggesting unseen forces are directing the distraction of a city strains credulity; especially if those forces are Republican.

Hate to ruin a perfectly acceptable barbershop truism; but Democrats have controlled everything in Detroit for half a century or more. You have had some if the most powerful congressional folk in the country. You have former Detroit Councilman Carl Levin in the Senate.

But let's say you are a visionary. How will the Republicans scrap the city?

[corktownyuppie]

What you say is very true. But read another way, and the point I opinionate, Lansing [like the legislative majority] does want ‘your’ problem. There are political and economic advantages to having a crippled Detroit remain unfixed, providing a place into which problems and what are perceived of as problem people can be walled off. A place where blame can be placed and people scolded.

Insurance companies have to love Detroit's problems. They get to charge some the highest rates in the nation and, surprise surprise, a rising tide lifts all ships allowing them to raise rates for all of us.

Politicians in other communities get to provide substandard or mediocre services and then say, 'we are better than Detroit at least'.

A failing Detroit with tens of thousands of abandoned residential units might appear blighted to some eyes but has to glitter like gold to those realtors, builders and banker on the fringes whose businesses have benefited so greatly from it. A market that discards its houses rather than recycling them is the best of all possible worlds for them.

Hm. I agree -- to some extent -- to the crux of your statement; there are people who are benefiting from the demise of Detroit. But I don't perceive it to be as a result of some conscious effort to purposely keep Detroit down and then exploit the subsequent economic changes.

I see it that people are more comfortable moving away from social problems than solving them. And this was made all the more possible by the invention of the automobile.

Our society hates social ills. For a society that is so hell-bent on economic growth and using strategy to solve problems....social ills are like the disowned stepchild you wish you didn't have. Problems associated with poverty, such as illiteracy, births out of wedlock, single parent households, domestic violence...these issues baffle even the most ambitious and talented of us.

We can install an automatic defibrillator on your heart. We can put many cancers into decade-long remissions. Medical procedures that once took weeks from which to recover now take days. We can store a room full of records onto a telephone smaller than my hand. We've learned to harness energy from raw sewage, quadruple fuel our fuel efficiency, and share information at once unfathomable speeds.

But we can't figure out how to convince an uneducated pregnant woman in poverty to get prenatal care for her child...even though it's free. We can't figure out how to teach a husband not to beat his wife, even though he loves her. We can't stop 15-year-olds from getting pregnant...even though we have technology that is 99% foolproof.

And I think it's this frustration at being so powerless at solving the problems combined with the discomfort at having to witness their suffering or have your safety threatened by the inevitable consequences of these social problems....that's the reason why people run away.

There are a lot of good people of all backgrounds and races that are sincerely interested in helping rebuild the city, redevelop the city, bring jobs to the city. But they're too scared to do it because instead of being welcomed with open arms, they're being greeted with hostility and scorn. Or worse, like the Australian who was shot by the father of his tenant.

So yes, it's possible that there are those who benefit from exploiting the degradation and decline of Detroit. But I think much of that is because we in Detroit lack the leadership to reject those whose actions destroy and welcome those whose actions re-build.

And, you can't blame Detroit for that. No one else has found solutions to these social ills. It's no wonder that we're struggling with it too.

[shovelhead]

If you ever needed proof that the average age of Michigan residents was beginning to look something like an AARP membership list then look no further than this thread. Same ol' turf wars and bickering over nonsense while the house burns. And if that wasn't enough you have some troll in here using the word "whitey" like it's still 1972.

Us vs. them again. That didn't work for either side before either.....at least very well.

[shovelhead]

A failing Detroit with tens of thousands of abandoned residential units might appear blighted to some eyes but has to glitter like gold to those realtors, builders and banker on the fringes whose businesses have benefited so greatly from it. A market that discards its houses rather than recycling them is the best of all possible worlds for them.

Lowell,

This statement may have been true ten years ago but not today.

[shovelhead]

That's how the rest of the country felt about rescuing the auto industry. Doesn't mean that letting the auto industry fail wouldn't have dealt a huge blow to the nation's economy. By the same line of logic, just because the rest of Michigan doesn't find Detroit very interesting doesn't mean that its failure wouldn't deal a huge blow to the state.

ihearthed,

I don't to sound like I'm beating up on you in these posts but the GM rescue needs to be addressed.

Remember the old joke regarding the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different outcome? Well, GM has done it again. Their "Brilliant" move a few weeks ago to buy a 7% share in French automaker Peugeot.

Here are a couple of links:http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ut-for-france/
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/update...20120323-00452

GM IPO of it's stock was mid thirty dollar range. Today it's mid twenty dollar range. Seems that a wiser use of 400 million dollars would have been for GM to buy it's own stock from the U.S. instead of dumping it down a rathole in France. And as the U.S. Government is a owner of IIRC 26.7% of GM, why didn't they step in and say no to this deal?

In my opinion the only reasons the U.S, Government has not put the rest of it's GM stock on the market is first, it would not recoup it's investment at today's price, and that flooding the market with it's 26 +/- share would further depress the stock price.

Still, you have to wonder what was going through their heads to buy into Peugeot.

And I'm tied in a fringe way to the auto industry for my whole working career and would have been affected if it had gone away. But actions like this post bankruptcy make me scratch my head and say ????? And it's my tax dollars too.

[Novine]

"The reason is simple. Parents took their kids out and sent them to inner ring suburban schools. Less kids equates to less funding and the downward spiral begins."

So? The whizzes from the state were supposed to show us how to save the schools money as enrollment declined. It's not like people started leaving when the state showed up. It's been happening for decades. But the state interventions appear to have only accelerated that decline, not stem it.