Protesters disrupt financial review board hearing in detroit

[GUSHI]

Most of the small business are not black owned in the city, coneys are Albanian owned, party stores Chaldean owned, wig shops Asian owners, gas station Arab owned, thats a huge problem, when kids see parents working the system, w welfare and not working, that's the problem, don't blame the white folk or the catholic church for detritus problem, I'm sick of the Fu Ken race card also,I can tell you my ancestors never owned one of your ancestors, mine were to busy trying not to be prosecuted for their Catholic Beliefs,

[De'troiter]

Yes the cAtholic church is large, powerful, rich, I don't know about flashy, those huge churches in the city were built by parishoners, yes I am catholic and proud of it,do o think the church has made mistakes yes I do, but I can bet my life the Catholic church has done more for Detroit, then any other church, and is still doing for Detroit,

Again, I have no problem with the Catholic Church, I am just tired of people always talking about how "flashy" or "materialistic" the Black Churches are. I compared the Catholic Church to the Black Church to show people that White people are not much different than Black people. Humans in general like nice stuff, and it is unfair for people to constanly badger Black Christians because they like to wear fancy suits or nice jewelry to Church. These people never stop and look at their own cultures with the same critical lens that they look at the Black culture with. It seems that it was ok for the Arch Diocese to live in oppulence, but it is a downright sin for a Bishop of a Black church, to live well.

[Dent]

How about if the ministers of black churches were to live a humbly as the black folk who support them do. That was how we "rolled" back in the day in our white neighborhood church . I have never owned a wrist watch watch, so much as a Pimp-mobile like I have seen at many black churches in the "hood". I wore my school uniform to church on Sunday morning. I had only one pair of 'good' school/church shoes that I had to polish before service. That was all the 'bling' we had. The parish priest drove a Chevy station wagon that was donated to the church. We were taught the "Golden Rule", not "burn down the city..." That was not 'our culture' That is our America. But then again, if Detroiters believe they are not a part of Michigan, then how can Detroit be a part of America?

[Wesley Mouch]

Yes the Catholic Church is the most flashy! You can not change history. You do know that for a while the biggest house in Detroit belonged to the Catholic Church? Also, some of the most extravagant, structures in the City were the Catholic Churches. The Catholic Church is one of the richest entities in the entire world. The Black Church does not have a "Vactican City" nor do they have actual crown jewels and treasure, like the Catholic Church has received for centuries! So of course they were more rich and sucessful than the Black Churches, that had to fight slavery, racism and oppression from the friendly and helpful catholics that so kindly burned their poor little churches down!

I am not anti-catholic, they are in fact some of the nicest people around, but I do not like when people place their culture above the culture of others. There are more layers and problems caused by society that affect Blacks and Native Americans, than anyone cares to address. Catholic people did well because they were allowed to do well, at a times when Blacks were systematically, held back by the Government! Blacks have come a long way in just the past 40 years, but the playing field is still not level for Blacks or Native Americans. The Catholic Church has evolved from something sinister, so how can they judge so critically?

Wow. I feel sorry for all your pain and anger.

The Catholic Church isn't perfect. Few churchs are. And so what.

Overall, the good being done by the Church today much outweighs the sins of the past.

btw, equating having riches [[Catholic) with the flaunting blingistas [[Black Faux-Ministers) makes little sense.

[Wesley Mouch]

<snip> When are White ppl going to EVER accept SOME of the Blame for why the city is in the shape its in???

I think Rick Snyder is stepping up to the plate, accepting responsibility for Detroit, and working to fix it. There's nothing but heart-ache in it for him. But he's doing it anyway. That's what we need more of in our leadership. People who do the right things. Accept responsibility, and then fix things.

[De'troiter]

Wow. I feel sorry for all your pain and anger.

The Catholic Church isn't perfect. Few churchs are. And so what.

Overall, the good being done by the Church today much outweighs the sins of the past.

btw, equating having riches [[Catholic) with the flaunting blingistas [[Black Faux-Ministers) makes little sense.

Wesley with all do respect, your final sentence sheds light on the misconceptions that alot of white people have about black people. "Black" does not automatically equal "Poor". For most of the last century, Black Detroiters had more personal wealth than Blacks in any other major city. This epidemic of joblessness and poverty has just recently began with the latest generation due to changing economics. Black Ministers are no more flaunting than anyone else. If the congregation is receiving spiritual enlightenment, who are you to call their ministers "Black Faux-Miinisters?" Just because you have no connection with those who you believe are "Faux" doesn't mean they are not serving a need to their congregants. The unity and love of these "Faux Churches" helped Black people and every other minority rise above oppression and bigotry not even 100 years ago. I never called Catholic Priests "Faux Priests," but yet many on this board do not hesitate to denounce and deny the legitimacy of Black Christian Churches. This is why there is a divide in this country. Nothing Black is viewed as legitimate or dignified, but everything White is the way that Black Culture should be. It seems as though if Blacks do not dress, sing, or worship God in the same manner as Whites they are some how imposters or "Faux Christians." I stand to tell you that, although there are indeed some "Faux-Churches", not every church is a "Faux-Church" just because it is Black Church. There are several Black Churches that do good for people as well.

[Vic01]

and how did this thread turn into which church is better? Some churches/religious leaders are good, some "ministers" live above the means of their flock, some don't. Enough said?
Now, what about this
Protesters disrupt financial review board hearing in detroit

[SteveJ]

I just hate all the excuses made for Detroiters. Its because of the economy, bigotry, etc... No, its not because of that. Its because of not going to school, having baby mamas all over the city and taking pride in that, being loud and uncivilized, and taking any extra money they make and buying bling [[hideous wheels, cartier glasses, gold) when they are broke as a joke. Someone mentioned that blacks aren't getting any work. Well, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but construction takes skilled labor. They can't just give a job to some black owned contractor that owns 2 pieces of equipment and digs basements to build a $50 mil freeway project. You can't just hire people from the community when they can't read or write and have no skills.

Once Detroiters value education and move away from the ghetto thug culture, they will move forward. Now all they have is the race card but its falling on deaf ears because its been pulled so many times.

[De'troiter]

...taking any extra money they make and buying bling [[hideous wheels, cartier glasses, gold)...Now all they have is the race card but its falling on deaf ears because its been pulled so many times.

I've always found it fascinating how people are so quick to dictate how others should spend their hard earned money...Blacks are not the only people that like big wheels...lol...in fact the Executives at Chrysler, Ford and GM like them too. Now you can get 20inch "Thug Culture" rims brand new from the factory to give you a piece of "Thug Culture" as well. You know the Motown Sound was considered "Race Music" [[aka "Thug Culture") before White people admitted that they liked it, and now its the most identifiable music in the world. All I am saying is, a difference in culture is not always bad, just because someone does something different does not make them wrong. We are all human, and in America we have the right to the Pursuit of Happiness, even if that includes putting nice rims on a car that you paid cash for, because you couldn't afford a brand new one. Live a little.

[Detroit Stylin]

All 700k plus of us eh Steve?

[Scottathew]

In the suburbs, this is what happens when you disrupt a meeting. This is from last night's Warren City Council meeting.

A woman, out of turn, tries to go up to the microphone and speak. The council president informs her its not her turn, and to sit back down. She refuses. The Warren Police, without making a scene, remove the woman from the meeting for trying to disrupt it.

The person who recorded the video, Warren political activist Tomasz Bania, claims that her removal was illegal.

[RedeemerKid]

Per Kwame Kenyatta

"Ifyou gonna have a partnership with us, Mr. Governor, then let's have a partnership, let's not have a master-slave relationship," Kenyatta said. "Don't treat us different than you treat any other city in the state of Michigan, or any other state in the U.S."

When is this going to stop? The State is not trying to be a "slaveowner" Kenyatta, they are trying to get you out of this horrible mess you're in. Is the RACE CARD the only thing you have, you, Watson, Shabazz and all the rest?

I saw that too. We're at the end. This is the culmination of decades of mismanagement of the city by it's elected officials. Now the state wants to come in and bail them out.

A simple and polite "thank you" might suffice rather than this type of defiant and race baiting inflammatory talk.

[sumas]

I am so grateful I missed all that on the tube. It would have profoundly disturbed me. From my narrow vantage point, I live in a Detroit community that is diverse and inclusive. Racism at any level is disgusting

[corktownyuppie]

Here's something to contemplate. A few posts ago I advocated for a focus on what was done wrong rather than focusing on who did it. I advocated focusing on what we need to do rather than focusing on who needs to do it.

So here's the question...even if your point of view is valid, how effective is blaming somebody's community and culture for mistakes in terms of furthering a discussion? And even if your people/culture/tribe/community are unfairly attacked, how effective is defending them in terms of trying to advance the discussion?

I mean, we can sit here an argue for days about whose culture is superior to whose. And if that's what you want to do, then hell, let's get your people on one side, get the other people on the other side, have big royal rumble on pay per view and make some money off of it.

But since I think we're looking for solutions, then lets focus on what people did wrong and what we need to do right. Because really, at the end of the day, you can motivate people to change what they do. But no herculean effort will make someone change who they are.

If we keep ignoring the former in an effort to push the latter, we'll never get anywhere.

[Buy American]

QUOTE=48091;311669]In the suburbs, this is what happens when you disrupt a meeting. This is from last night's Warren City Council meeting.

A woman, out of turn, tries to go up to the microphone and speak. The council president informs her its not her turn, and to sit back down. She refuses. The Warren Police, without making a scene, remove the woman from the meeting for trying to disrupt it.

The person who recorded the video, Warren political activist Tomasz Bania, claims that her removal was illegal.

[/QUOTE]

This womans removal was done in a very civil manner and is exactly what should have happened at that the meeting where the protesters disrupted it. We all have rights to speak, but the meeting with Andy Dillon sounded like a high school cafeteria with a bunch of children yelling.
If you choose to disrupt a meeting and do not want to follow rules or protocol, then you take the chance of being removed, period. There was nothing illegal about her removal, she wanted her turn, there is time given for each public speaker to do so by signing a form and waiting...she didn't want to wait.

[corktownyuppie]

This womans removal was done in a very civil manner and is exactly what should have happened at that the meeting where the protesters disrupted it. We all have rights to speak, but the meeting with Andy Dillon sounded like a high school cafeteria with a bunch of children yelling.
If you choose to disrupt a meeting and do not want to follow rules or protocol, then you take the chance of being removed, period. There was nothing illegal about her removal, she wanted her turn, there is time given for each public speaker to do so by signing a form and waiting...she didn't want to wait.

I agree. Public meeting doesn't mean free for all. Next time they have a public meeting, disruptive observers should be removed from the proceedings and relocated to a place where they can watch on closed circuit. They can still have their 2 minutes during public comment time. What happened on Monday should not be allowed to happen again.

[Detroitdave]

Here's a question I haven't heard anyone bring up yet.
Let's flip the script. What would happen if this "Gentleman" was a white man and saying "before we give up this city we will burn it down first" .
What would be the reaction ? We all know ,there would be a HUGE uproar.
This would be news around the country ! The white Jesse Jackson would be here, the white Al Sharpton would be here , marching up and down every street in Detroit !
This guys doesn't get a pass just because he is angry. He is a "man of god".
Remember to think before you speak because it will come back to bite you in the ass , and being a man of god and speaking to his flock every Sunday he should be setting an example, what type of example is he setting ?

In the end , no body is perfect, we all make mistakes ,but even when given the chance on Fox news last night he still didn't say he was sorry for what he said , he didn't even say I misspoke in the heat of the moment , and people follow this guy ? they really need to take another look at who they are following .

[313hero]

In the end , no body is perfect, we all make mistakes ,but even when given the chance on Fox news last night he still didn't say he was sorry for what he said , he didn't even say I misspoke in the heat of the moment , and people follow this guy ? they really need to take another look at who they are following .

NoBody EVER asked L.Brooks to apologize for all the bull he's said over the years, nor him drunk driving, and he's an elected official. Shabazz not elected to anything. Why SHOULD he apologize for stating how he feels???

[Wesley Mouch]

Wesley with all do respect, your final sentence sheds light on the misconceptions that alot of white people have about black people. "Black" does not automatically equal "Poor". For most of the last century, Black Detroiters had more personal wealth than Blacks in any other major city. This epidemic of joblessness and poverty has just recently began with the latest generation due to changing economics. Black Ministers are no more flaunting than anyone else. If the congregation is receiving spiritual enlightenment, who are you to call their ministers "Black Faux-Miinisters?" Just because you have no connection with those who you believe are "Faux" doesn't mean they are not serving a need to their congregants. The unity and love of these "Faux Churches" helped Black people and every other minority rise above oppression and bigotry not even 100 years ago. I never called Catholic Priests "Faux Priests," but yet many on this board do not hesitate to denounce and deny the legitimacy of Black Christian Churches. This is why there is a divide in this country. Nothing Black is viewed as legitimate or dignified, but everything White is the way that Black Culture should be. It seems as though if Blacks do not dress, sing, or worship God in the same manner as Whites they are some how imposters or "Faux Christians." I stand to tell you that, although there are indeed some "Faux-Churches", not every church is a "Faux-Church" just because it is Black Church. There are several Black Churches that do good for people as well.

De'troiter -- I appreciate the reasoned discussion you post.

My last sentence -- btw, equating having riches [[Catholic) with the flaunting blingistas [[Black Faux-Ministers) makes little sense. -- does not speak to 'black = poor'. Please let me know if I'm really being ignorant here. My intent was solely addressed at the actions of a number of Black Churches who have disappointed me in their relative lack of effort to seek responsibility and justice for their flocks.

That said, I accept your criticism of my words 'black faux ministers'. The words were not well chosen. And on some introspection, they do reflect a lack of respect for the group.

That said, I don't join you in seeing the 'divide' as you do. I don't agree that 'Nothing Black is viewed as legitimate of dignified'. I don't agree that whitedom should be the model. But that doesn't save 'black churches' from constructive criticism either. And stifling discussion if rather the point about this hearing. Rather than politely addressing the plans, some people chose to disrupt and shut down discussion.

I appreciate the chance to discuss this with you, and to learn from you and others. But I do continue to believe that black churches are have a ways to go in helping their flocks. When a black church uses 'blingism', its about as abusive of their flock as is the state lottery. Telling people as Reverend Ike has, that 'bling' is good is self-serving and bad social policy. Fortunately, I see today that the Catholic Church has moved past this stage.

Thanks for the discussion, De'troiter.

[De'troiter]

De'troiter -- I appreciate the reasoned discussion you post.

My last sentence -- btw, equating having riches [[Catholic) with the flaunting blingistas [[Black Faux-Ministers) makes little sense. -- does not speak to 'black = poor'. Please let me know if I'm really being ignorant here. My intent was solely addressed at the actions of a number of Black Churches who have disappointed me in their relative lack of effort to seek responsibility and justice for their flocks.

That said, I accept your criticism of my words 'black faux ministers'. The words were not well chosen. And on some introspection, they do reflect a lack of respect for the group.

That said, I don't join you in seeing the 'divide' as you do. I don't agree that 'Nothing Black is viewed as legitimate of dignified'. I don't agree that whitedom should be the model. But that doesn't save 'black churches' from constructive criticism either. And stifling discussion if rather the point about this hearing. Rather than politely addressing the plans, some people chose to disrupt and shut down discussion.

I appreciate the chance to discuss this with you, and to learn from you and others. But I do continue to believe that black churches are have a ways to go in helping their flocks. When a black church uses 'blingism', its about as abusive of their flock as is the state lottery. Telling people as Reverend Ike has, that 'bling' is good is self-serving and bad social policy. Fortunately, I see today that the Catholic Church has moved past this stage.

Thanks for the discussion, De'troiter.

Thank you Wesley, for being open. I respect your opinion, and I too believe there is room for improvement in the Black Community in general. I enjoy having discussions with reasonable individuals.

[bartock]

NoBody EVER asked L.Brooks to apologize for all the bull he's said over the years, nor him drunk driving, and he's an elected official. Shabazz not elected to anything. Why SHOULD he apologize for stating how he feels???

L. Brooks never said anything that rises to the level of this. Heck, when Brooks said that some CC members should live in the zoo it created a huge PR shitstorm led by this idiot Shabazz.

But, I agree that this self-proclaimed preacher and civic leader, or any member of that racist organization [[NBPP) shouldn't have to apologize. Heck, he and the 75 or so grape-throwing nitwits should be left off camera completely. This is the same guy who told the Metro Times in 2005 that his goal is to have separate societies for white-skinned, black-skinned, brown-skinned, red-skinned and yellow-skinned people. And that his goal would be achieved through violence.

Shabazz is a PT Barnum and a fraud, pandering to a few dozen people who believe his lies. His talk of "burning the city" is like the Hutaree's "war" against the US...they both get way more attention than they deserve.

[bartock]

...and Shabazz owes LeDuff a beer for all the free pub he got out of this.

[Buy American]

NoBody EVER asked L.Brooks to apologize for all the bull he's said over the years, nor him drunk driving, and he's an elected official. Shabazz not elected to anything. Why SHOULD he apologize for stating how he feels???

Are you really trying to justify what Shabazz said? Using others [[Patterson) as an example of someone doing wrong may be YOUR way of trying to justify it, but you are wrong.

He was wrong using those inflammatory words at a public meeting. He was trying to incite the people, incite a riot, incite the animal instincts of people who prefer to burn down, kill or maim others. Shabazz is the kind of man to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, which it illegal.

...and, you're right, Shabazz is not an elected official so he was just there at the meeting to rile people up because he certainly didn't have any productive input did he? What a good preacher he is! What a man of God he is...what a good example to the youth in Detroit he is. Instead of having Jesus on the Cross in his church with I.N.R.I. letters behind his pulpit, his letters are probably B.B.B....Burn Baby Burn!

[Gannon]

Just imagine if only we could get a prototype of one of these loaned to the City Council. Charles Pugh'd barely ever touch his gavel again.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...brother-future

He'd have a field day with it, I'm sure. Just shutting up Watson...


Maybe a Robert's Rules fully automatic version will be invented, which would silence everyone not authorized to have the floor. That seems to be the reason it was invented, according to the article.

Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?!

[noise]

The Catholic Church isn't perfect. Few churchs are. And so what.

Well, absolutely none are perfect, if logic matters.