Protesters disrupt financial review board hearing in detroit

[De'troiter]

"Every pastor in the City of Detroit has stood behind the thief KK, they offer him a place to come for him to sign autographs for the crazies out there who think he is their saviour; they are the loudest protesters around and don't contribute a thing to Detroit. Do they help the youth? Do they mentor the thugs? They pass the basket and ask their flock to fill it and nothing goes back to the City. I can't positively say ALL the pastors, but most.

Buy American, you sure think you know alot about what goes on in the Black Church, but if you truly knew wouldn't be making the statements that you do. Yes, there are some crooked churches in Detroit, just like there are crooked churches in the suburbs, but the majority of churches in Detroit, help the community. One of the main goals in most of these churches is the YOUTH! They give scholarships, they open rec. centers, foster performing arts, and they fill the gap where the City and School System fail! The kids in the churches are not running around terrorizing the city, its the kids that do not go to church doing the harm! Its the churches feeding the poor and homeless, its the churches encouraging the people to better themselves, but you would never know this because you already have your stereotypes and preconceived notions about the the Black Church. What exactly are you doing to support the youth of Detroit? What thugs are you mentoring in the City. Im positive that these churches have far more interaction with these people than you. Practice what you preach.

[SWMAP]

I have long thought that there is a curious disconnect between the Black Church and the City. Look around and count all the churches. There are thousands, they reproduce and reproduce and, yet, the City of Detroit sinks deeper into a cesspool every day. I wonder if this is true worshiip.

I have a friend who happens to be a catholic pastor in the suburbs. For many years a Black pastor of a small church in Inkster would come to him for help in paying the winter heat bills for the little church. That pastor was truly poor - but trying not to be. He confided that, in the Black Church culture, a pastor has to be driving a BMW or a Bentley, he has to have bespoke suits and lots of flashy jewelry and THEN you will get a big congregation and lots of stability.

So, De'troiter - what do you think? Is the Black Church accomplishing very much for all their churches and Bible study? In reality, isn't the community getting the left-overs after the pastors get theirs?

[Detwa]

Connell Brown Jr played thug KK in the first one, Jamaal Hines played him in the sequel.

Just how many productions of his life were done? Because in the one I was referencing, Malik Shabazz definitely played him, I remember seeing it on the news. Here's a link to the article and video clip:

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/ente...-20100831-wpms

[Buy American]

Detwa, I was thinking the plays "Kwame a River" 1 and 2; you are referring to the movie "Scandal in the City".

[De'troiter]

I think the region would be worst without the churches. If you think its bad now it would be 200% worst. The people in the churches are generally the people with respect for themselves and others, and they instill these traits in their children. Children raised in the church are raised by a village, thugs raise themselves. Also, not just the pastors like to dress nice, the congregation likes to dress nice, and drive nice cars, and wear flashy jewelry its part of Black Culture, and has been for generations. Is it a crime? The Catholic churches were and are still the most flashy, of any denomination. Its their culture, not a crime.

[gumby]

An ugly, ugly scene. The kind of thing the media love to show about Detroiters, and the kind of thing some Detroiters do that doesn't make the lives of the rest of us any better or easier.

The media wouldn't show it if it didn't happen. Stop blaming the media for depicting Detroit in a bad light and start educating your neighbors on how not to look like idiots in front of the cameras.

[Novine]

From what I saw on TV, DPD officers were present. If anyone was truly out-of-control or disrupting the meeting, I'm sure they had orders to remove them and would have done so. All the yelling and screaming made for good television but it doesn't appear to had any impact on the board or the actions that they took.

[detroitmale]

For some strange reason, when the state comes in and begins to slap Detroit's "Incompetent" administration, they always want to throw up the racial card! You have all those people down there shouting and complaining, most of which aren't even tax payers just people who want to keep confusion going, about a problem they've fueled for years themselves. The only reason Detroit is in the situation it's in today is because of Detroit, not Lansing. That 200+ million of dollars Lansing owes is nothing compared to the billions of dollars that have been stolen from the city back since Young's administration. This has been going on for decades and YES the state needs to come in and take TOTAL control of the city's finances and get rid of that sorry mayor, the corrupt police department thats full of people thats connected with most of the street drug & gun trafficing, that pitiful Department of Transportation [[mechanics & all), in fact, most of the city departments needs to be emptied out!

[antongast]

I'm a bit confused by all the posts in this thread implying or directly stating that the government and/or the people of Detroit are directly to blame for the city's insolvency. Graft and corruption in city government is a very real and serious problem, and Dave Bing is admittedly an idiot, but it's hard to imagine how even the best city officials could make the city work with the available revenue. The tax base is just too small. This isn't a problem that Dillon and Snyder can solve either.

[noggin]

It reminds me of past school board meetings. Everyone knows that ended up well.

[corktownyuppie]

I'm a bit confused by all the posts in this thread implying or directly stating that the government and/or the people of Detroit are directly to blame for the city's insolvency. Graft and corruption in city government is a very real and serious problem, and Dave Bing is admittedly an idiot, but it's hard to imagine how even the best city officials could make the city work with the available revenue. The tax base is just too small. This isn't a problem that Dillon and Snyder can solve either.

Putting aside the obvious graft and corruption issues, the best possible solutions to making Detroit work have been known for years:

- Shed unnecessary departments of city government

- For remaining employees, restructure compensation to be in line with normal market rates. Yes, this likely means no pensions for new hires going forward. It should have been no pensions for new hires starting back in 1990.

- Take advantage of city assets to maximize revenue. Take Belle Isle, for instance. That is an entity which could have generated millions over the last decade, but that would mean having to make decisions that would piss people off.

- Coordinate with county-level service providers to take advantage of economies of scale and eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy. This may mean outsourcing fire, police, or EMS to other municipal entities for certain geographical areas.

- Outsource any expense which the private sector can do more cheaply or with better quality. Give unions an opportunity to bid on those contracts as well, but the jobs go to best bid.

- Pick 5-10 sustainable zones. Focus all development on those zones. All incentives must go into those zones.

- Move cops back into the city by picking specific neighborhoods, making them as safe as the suburbs, and giving major incentives for them to move.

There are plenty of ideas that will make Detroit more healthy financially. The problems is that most of those ideas will also piss off a lot of Detroiters, and that's the conundrum.

But there is a way out of it, we just need the political will -- or a political umbrella to shield the decision makers. Otherwise, it's simple. We just won't have the money.

[Gannon]

I have long thought that there is a curious disconnect between the Black Church and the City. Look around and count all the churches. There are thousands, they reproduce and reproduce and, yet, the City of Detroit sinks deeper into a cesspool every day. I wonder if this is true worshiip.

I have a friend who happens to be a catholic pastor in the suburbs. For many years a Black pastor of a small church in Inkster would come to him for help in paying the winter heat bills for the little church. That pastor was truly poor - but trying not to be. He confided that, in the Black Church culture, a pastor has to be driving a BMW or a Bentley, he has to have bespoke suits and lots of flashy jewelry and THEN you will get a big congregation and lots of stability.

So, De'troiter - what do you think? Is the Black Church accomplishing very much for all their churches and Bible study? In reality, isn't the community getting the left-overs after the pastors get theirs?

Yeah, the Xtian bastardization known as the Prosperity Movement runs deep in the city. Has for as long as I can remember, even back to my time at Church in the City on Woodward in Brush Park. We struggled against it, but when it finally took root, the place was basically destroyed. Went from 500 people down to 50, and the distorted and deceived pastorship kept on their path until the place finally died. My old head pastor is now a security guard at the DIA, and last time I bumped into him...he was denouncing God.

I once sat next to the daughter of an inner-city pastor on a trainride to Chicago. She was going back to college. When she told me that she lived in Bloomfield, but her father was a pastor of a relatively large inner-city church...I directly asked her if she had any trouble being a product of this form of spiritual extortion. She did, and felt quite guilty about it...on her way to what was most certainly an expensive college life.


No cheers...

[Wheels]

I'm a bit confused by all the posts in this thread implying or directly stating that the government and/or the people of Detroit are directly to blame for the city's insolvency. Graft and corruption in city government is a very real and serious problem, and Dave Bing is admittedly an idiot, but it's hard to imagine how even the best city officials could make the city work with the available revenue. The tax base is just too small. This isn't a problem that Dillon and Snyder can solve either.

The fact is true that the current revenue is not enough to support the current budget of the city of Detroit.

That being said if the monies stolen from the city had been invested properly. If city crime and corruption had not driven out business and industry tax base.
Things could have been a whole lot better in Detroit.

[SWMAP]

The Catholic churches were and are still the most flashy, of any denomination. Its their culture, not a crime.

This statement calls into question your powers of observation and your understanding of the history of Detroit.

Are you saying that the Catholic priests who led churches in Detroit for generations were " most flashy?" How about the thousands of nuns that taught in the little Catholic schools and lived in silent convents - were they "most flashy?" And all the parishioners who lived in the neighborhoods of Detroit, kept them clean and shoppped in the little stores that, then, lined the thoroughfares of Detroit and had, maybe, a single car and most often traveled by streetcar and bus - were they "most flashy?"

No, De'Troiter, they were not flashy and they were way more successful all around. The Black Church culture has evolved into something sinister - if you ask me.

[Wesley Mouch]

I have long thought that there is a curious disconnect between the Black Church and the City. Look around and count all the churches. There are thousands, they reproduce and reproduce and, yet, the City of Detroit sinks deeper into a cesspool every day. I wonder if this is true worshiip.

I have a friend who happens to be a catholic pastor in the suburbs. For many years a Black pastor of a small church in Inkster would come to him for help in paying the winter heat bills for the little church. That pastor was truly poor - but trying not to be. He confided that, in the Black Church culture, a pastor has to be driving a BMW or a Bentley, he has to have bespoke suits and lots of flashy jewelry and THEN you will get a big congregation and lots of stability.

So, De'troiter - what do you think? Is the Black Church accomplishing very much for all their churches and Bible study? In reality, isn't the community getting the left-overs after the pastors get theirs?

This pastor threadlet is an important point. I also have been curious for years about the relative silence of the city's churches on issues. Lots of noise about what's wrong, but little real steps to do anything.

There should have been marches on drug houses. Protests at the Manoogian Mansion against Kwame's betrayal of his marriage vows.

I am sure there is much that many of the churches have done -- but I think they get a failing grade for leadership. The Catholic Church has probably done more for the poor and disenfranchised in Detroit.

[corktownyuppie]

I agree in general with the sentiment of the above posters, but think that focusing on that -- as well as any other focus on who is to blame for our current situation -- is unproductive. Just as Councilman Kenyatta comparing Lansing to a "plantation owner" is also unproductive.

The question is, "What are we going to do going forward?" And if we need to look to the past to learn lessons from the past...we can do so with re-hashing the arguments of the past. Nothing we can do will turn back the clock and reverse the corruption from Kwame's term in office. But we can look forward and say that we need to root out corruption going forward. We can't turn back the clock and say that Engler should never have allowed cops to leave the city. But we can look forward and examine what we can do to bring them back. There are lot of mistakes we've made. Let the anger you have about those mistakes propel us to learn from the mistakes when setting policy going forward.

There is no us vs. them. This isn't Catholic Churches vs. Black Churches. This isn't Detroit vs. Lansing. This isn't Hendrix vs. Bing or Gary Brown vs. Monica Conyers.

Less focus on people. More focus on ideas. Total commitment to execution of solutions.

Look at last night's protest of the financial review board. The board is looking for solutions. The loud guests were all about focusing on people. Guess which way is going to get us out of this mess?

[313hero]

Its funny how everybody wanna blame everything on KK. NEWSFLASH: he's been gone longer than Obama Been president. I am appalled by the fact that the State [[who are made up of elected officials) are trying to take our RIGHT to VOTE away from us. Thats My biggest gripe. My second largest gripe is that the Mayor and Council has not come up w/ ANYTHING after all of these years. Nothing. Do I think a State takeover is needed. No. Do I think State support is needed yes. And I dont mean just send us money. Cause its obvious by now that this administration is in over its head. However the State needs to make some changes to make it easier and more attractive for businesses and people to visit/move back here. Closing the State Police station in the city wasnt good for example. I also realize that no one can make a private owned company move somewhere or hire people they dont want. Thats what happened here. Most of all the major employers in the city moved on and left us behind. They dont want our labor and we stuck begging to sell them our labor. for over 50 years businesses have left this city followed by those who could afford to follow them. That being said the city needs to come up w/ Innovative ways to raise funds. you can never cut your way to prosperity nor can you save your way to prosperity. You must invest in yourself and take full advantage of the resources you have. Detroiter's [[myself included) always cry about someone coming in and taking our assets. Well if we used them to their full potential that wouldnt cross ANYONES mind now would it. Its no reason that Belle Isle is still free of charge to everyone. its no reason the City Airport is not a drag strip on the weekends. Its no reason that blocks of vacant houses not being converted over to a huge Paint Ball park and call it "Urban Warfare". Simple things like that will help. Stop sitting on all of these assets and use them. The thing I hate about everybody crying foul is that non of them come w/ solutions. I have grown to respect Snyder. Heck I think he's doing a pretty good job, I must admitt. And I think he would be willing to work w/ Detroit but they havnt came up w/ nothing for him to work w/. The Biggest Scandal that hit Detroit wasnt them damn text messages but the Scandal that Bing was plotting on being the City's EM. Yall do remember the lady that sued the city saying those things right. Well they settled out of court, the CC signed off on a 200k settlement AND gave her, her job back. And she wasnt the first. I have personally recieved e-mails, messages etc. about Bing's plans from some of his APPOINTEES. However the media only ran the story a day and it whent away. WTF

[Wesley Mouch]

I agree in general with the sentiment of the above posters, but think that focusing on that -- as well as any other focus on who is to blame for our current situation -- is unproductive. Just as Councilman Kenyatta comparing Lansing to a "plantation owner" is also unproductive.
<snip>
There is no us vs. them. This isn't Catholic Churches vs. Black Churches. This isn't Detroit vs. Lansing. This isn't Hendrix vs. Bing or Gary Brown vs. Monica Conyers.

Less focus on people. More focus on ideas. Total commitment to execution of solutions.

Look at last night's protest of the financial review board. The board is looking for solutions. The loud guests were all about focusing on people. Guess which way is going to get us out of this mess?

I too share concerns about the 'blame' game. Determining blame isn't very important. But deciding who has been right and who has been wrong is crucial.

Its doesn't need to be personal -- but decisions do need to be made.

Blame no. But as they saying goes, 'those who forget history are consigned to relive it'. So we do need to look at the Black Churches vs. Catholic Churches and decide who has acted in the best interest of the poor. We do need to look at Detroit's handling of its finances vs. the State's track record. Not us vs. them -- but we do need to look at history and decide on our future.

[SWMAP]

I am one of the posters that entered the fray about the Black churches. The gist of the discussion was that the Black Church pastors are whipping up their churches into a frenzy about the EFM, etc., but don't do much real for the City. De'troiter jumps in and says that the City would be so much worse off if not for the Black Churches. I commented that the proliferation of churches in Detroit has not made a dent in Detroit's dysfunction and may have increased it, as the pastors line their pockets [[well-known) and pander to the most ignorant elements in the City.
I did not make any comparison to the Catholic churches and their pastors. It was De'troiter who said that, in comparison, the Catholics were more "flashy" [[and disfuctional and perverse?). I pointed out his obvious error of fact and interpretation.

I don't care about who was better for Detroit. But I do care that the Black pastors stop running things around here because they DO A BAD JOB. In that way, I agree with Wesley mouch that we have to learn from history - even near history. Look around and see what has become of Detroit as the Black churches prolifererated into the thousands. Start thinking critically about the power of those churches and how they have used it.

Pastor Bullock - drop it! Shut up. Stop using your pulpit to whip up Detroiters in a political way. Get down to the saving of souls business. Look at the dysfuction and pathologies of Detroit and attack them: the thug mentality, the greed, the illigitimacy, the crime against elders, the stripping of property belonging to others. Don't worry about how Detroit is going to be governed. That is Caesar's business.

[corktownyuppie]

I too share concerns about the 'blame' game. Determining blame isn't very important. But deciding who has been right and who has been wrong is crucial.

Its doesn't need to be personal -- but decisions do need to be made.

Blame no. But as they saying goes, 'those who forget history are consigned to relive it'. So we do need to look at the Black Churches vs. Catholic Churches and decide who has acted in the best interest of the poor. We do need to look at Detroit's handling of its finances vs. the State's track record. Not us vs. them -- but we do need to look at history and decide on our future.

I agree that we need to look to history to learn from our past. My point is that instead of focusing on WHO has been wrong, we should focus on WHAT has been wrong about whatever it is they've done.

I don't care about whether it's Black Churches or Catholic Churches...any church where the pastor is living in wealth far away from his church while his flock is poor and getting poorer...that's something that we should avoid.

I'm Catholic and a product of the Catholic School Systems. We've done a lot of good things, and our emphasis on rigorous academics is one of which I'm proud. But we've done stupid things, like have teachers arrested for sexual assault....we've had our students use offensive language in reaction to lost sporting events. And if we focus on WHO did things instead of WHAT they did...people inevitably react in anger -- taking sides in attempt to demonstrate loyalty.

It's not a matter of the state's track record vs. the city's track record. It's a matter of what the city did wrong, what needs to be done right, and how both the state and the city can mutually be assured that whatever that is gets done.

[313hero]

It's not a matter of the state's track record vs. the city's track record. It's a matter of what the city did wrong, what needs to be done right, and how both the state and the city can mutually be assured that whatever that is gets done.

Ditto. This is the same thing I was thinking

[corktownyuppie]

I am one of the posters that entered the fray about the Black churches. The gist of the discussion was that the Black Church pastors are whipping up their churches into a frenzy about the EFM, etc., but don't do much real for the City. De'troiter jumps in and says that the City would be so much worse off if not for the Black Churches. I commented that the proliferation of churches in Detroit has not made a dent in Detroit's dysfunction and may have increased it, as the pastors line their pockets [[well-known) and pander to the most ignorant elements in the City.
I did not make any comparison to the Catholic churches and their pastors. It was De'troiter who said that, in comparison, the Catholics were more "flashy" [[and disfuctional and perverse?). I pointed out his obvious error of fact and interpretation.

I don't care about who was better for Detroit. But I do care that the Black pastors stop running things around here because they DO A BAD JOB. In that way, I agree with Wesley mouch that we have to learn from history - even near history. Look around and see what has become of Detroit as the Black churches prolifererated into the thousands. Start thinking critically about the power of those churches and how they have used it.

Pastor Bullock - drop it! Shut up. Stop using your pulpit to whip up Detroiters in a political way. Get down to the saving of souls business. Look at the dysfuction and pathologies of Detroit and attack them: the thug mentality, the greed, the illigitimacy, the crime against elders, the stripping of property belonging to others. Don't worry about how Detroit is going to be governed. That is Caesar's business.

I agree with all of this. And your last paragraph is the most poignant for me personally because it focuses on what we're trying to DO, instead of who is doing it.

[RedeemerKid]

Shabazz is getting significant, negative yet very diplomatic feedback on his very "charged" comments last night from his friends and followers on his facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/MGMBPN

[Danny]

In the Little House on the Prarie last TV movie series. Walnut Grove in 1890 was about to be demolished by a railroad tycoon. Folks were being put out of the homes and businesses. After months of rebel rousing, folks decided to blow up their town. After the railroad tycoon came with some U.S. Marshalls, he saw the town destroyed. He told the former citizens to clean up their mess. Since Walnut Grove is no longer their town, its the railroad tycoons responsibility to clean up the mess. The former citizens then walked away. Missing their town the memories they shared.

When NEW YORK CITY was bankrupt in 1976, Harlem and South Bronx became the American's largest blighted ghetto. Times Square was "Porno-Wood." A financial team from Donald Trump to Bloomberg poured most of their money along the 3 billions of federal tax dollars to demolish blighted ghettohoods and gentrified Times Square. NEW YORK CITY is a almost yuppified metropolis with a better suburban-like South Bronx neighborhood and diversified Harlem.

Thinking about burning Detroit down will be terrible mistake. Most of you social know-it-alls should have know that Detroit has been abused by 100 years of xenophobia, segregation, city government corruption, more black folks moving further to 8 Mile Rd. both east and west, 1967 race riots, the election of Coleman A. Young and his race card upside down politics and the crazy Manoogian Parties by KING KWAME Kilpatrick. Face it, Detroiters. 311 years of self government rule is over. Let the EF dictator or consent financial team take over. This city has to clear this 20 billion dollar deficit. This city will rise from its ashes BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! Sacrifices have to be made to save Detroit from bankruptcy.

[313hero]

I sometimes wonder why White Ppl in this area think that the Black ppl in this area think in terms of us vs. them. when thats the way it is. EVERYTIME someone that doesnt look like us come around or take control of something WE ALWAYS end up loosing. Look @ COBO for example. the ONLY Black Owned business in there was forced out as soon as the White man took it over. Look @ most of the construction work that gets done around here. Its Not Us getting the contracts nor the jobs. PPl can say what they want about KK and Bobby Ferguson but he hired Black Detroiters. Now those contracts are going to non Detroiters. And if the Contract is given to a Detroit BASED company their employees dont live here. Journey Security [[Black Owned) used to do alot of the security in city Buildings, now its Guardian. Yeah they hire alot of Detroiters but they pay waaay less than Journey was paying. These are just a couple of examples but it happens an awfull lot. So what are we to think??? The State took over DPS and trippled their deficit. What are we supposed to think? Alot of ppl got contracts that dont live in the city nor hire its citizens. Now dont get me wrong a couple Black companys got contracts but not a significant amount. Who redid the Southfield freeway??? It wasnt us. Who tor down Cass? It wasnt us. Who tor down Tiger Stadium? It wasnt us. So what are we supposed to think??? Black ppl have been getting shafted for decades, cant grow their businesses cause we cant get any work. I'm not mad @ those companies, hell they can hire whoever they want. But when has the City or State EVER had Black Jobs as any type of priority. And if we can get a job and our car breaks down we're done. cause so many communities [[where most of the jobs are) opted out of regional transit. Then Everybody goes crazy about the crime, as if the writting not on the wall. Poor schools, no jobs, no transit, no nothing will always end up like Detroit is today. When are White ppl going to EVER accept SOME of the Blame for why the city is in the shape its in???