Have you ever lived in Philly/S.Jersey? Need some feedback.

[Planner3357]

I know this isn't a Detroit topic, so my apologies.

Just got a promotion at work and they are moving us to S.Jersey/Philadelphia. Kind of shocked because I have to be there permanently in May. I will be working in Mount Laurel, NJ and the wife is going to see about transferring to her companies downtown Philly location.

So, before I go asking some Philly forums questions, I figured I'd ask you good people.

So, do you have any information regarding where to live and whether or not we need two cars? Also, any kind of other info is cool too.

[iheartthed]

I have never lived there but I have been there a lot. If you live in the city of Philadelphia and at least one of you works there then you shouldn't need two cars. Philadelphia has a relatively good transit system [[excellent when compared to Detroit). If she works in Center City then she likely won't have much need for a car. You'll almost certainly need one though if you'll be working in Jersey.

[JRich2425]

I lived in Philly for a while. I would definitely be looking for a place to live on that side of the river rather than the Jersey side. Camden/Mount Laurel is a fine place to work but not where I'd want to be spending my evenings and weekends. Center City, Old City, and parts of South Philly are great places to call home. Public Transportation is phenominal and the city is very walkable [[I walked to work almost every day). Your wife should have no trouble at all. As for you, I would take a look at the PATCO subway line. It starts in Center City Philly and takes you across the river into South Jersey. Depending on where your job is located, it could be much more affordable and convenient than driving since you avoid the annoying New Jersey tolls.

[winstonst]

Philly has some great areas and some really dangerous areas. If you are an urban type it is the place to be. Jersey is all suburbs in that area. Drive thru or around Camden.
It is far more dense then Detroit. Parking is tough in Center City. It will probably be more expensive than living in Detroit. Take the time to come and visit. I am from Jersey so not too much help.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Philad...nsylvania.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/philadelphia/

http://www.philadelphiausa.travel/visitors/getting-here/public-transportation-regional-system/

http://www.septa.org/index.html


http://www.ridepatco.org/stations/routemap.html

[Lowell]

First off, congratulations on your promotion, secondly sorry we will be losing you. I only know Philly-Camden a little but I got a good vibe. It doesn't seem full of itself, unlike some other cities on the east coast, and has the closest 'Detroit' feel of them all to me. Arguably they have the most rabid and loyal sports fans, so there's another common trait.

[Packman41]

I lived in Philly for a while. I would definitely be looking for a place to live on that side of the river rather than the Jersey side. Camden/Mount Laurel is a fine place to work but not where I'd want to be spending my evenings and weekends. Center City, Old City, and parts of South Philly are great places to call home. Public Transportation is phenominal and the city is very walkable [[I walked to work almost every day). Your wife should have no trouble at all. As for you, I would take a look at the PATCO subway line. It starts in Center City Philly and takes you across the river into South Jersey. Depending on where your job is located, it could be much more affordable and convenient than driving since you avoid the annoying New Jersey tolls.

+1 on this advice.

I worked in Center City and we lived in Valley Forge/Wayne from 1986 to 1990. You will only need one car, but you will have to drive your wife to the train station. Cost of parking in Center City is astronomical - it was $175 a month 25 years ago, I can only imagine what it is today. Have her take mass transit. BTW a lot of homes [[PA suburbs) only have one car garages.

Non-resident taxes in Philly were 4.375% - you need to check what they are now.

Home cost will be much more than the Detroit Metro area, but at least you will see some appreciation. The home I sold in 1990 is now worth 88% MORE today according to Zillow. Meanwhile, the value of my Bloomfield Hills home is DOWN 7.5% from what I paid for it in 1990.

[Don K]

I grew up in South Jersey [[Moorestown - right next door to Mount Laurel). Although I've always been a suburban boy, I think living in Philly would be lots of fun. I'll second the nominations for Center CCity, Old City, and [[at least parts of) South Philly. I'll also nominate the University City area of West Philly. A high school friend of mine lives there with his wife and they love it. UPenn several years back offered incentives for its employees to live in the area, and it's a pretty nice mixed-race area with restaurants in walking distance, and the Penn/Drexel university communities. If you're lucky you can find a house that backs to an alley, that would have its own parking. Otherwise parking is, mmm, challenging. From there your wife could commute to Center City by trolley. You, I'm pretty sure, would have to commute by car to South Jersey from anyplace in Philly. PATCO is a cool line, but it's a single line running through Camden County [[nowhere near Mount Laurel), and it's really oriented towards a traditional suburb-to-Center City commute [[the stations aren't really in walking distance of anything and all have monster Park-and-Ride lots surrounding them.

On the South Jersey side, Moorestown is about the population of Birmingham, and is a combination of Plymouth, Birmingham, Bloomfield Township, and the McMansion suburbs of outer Oakland County. Houses built any time from the 1700's through the 1990's. Downtown consists of Main Street, with some shopping but AFAIK no real restaurants [[I haven't been back in almost 10 years now) because Moorestown is a dry town. It isn't particularly racially mixed, but there is a black section of town, so if you have [[or will have at some time) kids they will go to schools that aren't all-white from Upper Elementary [[Grade 4) on. I always considered this an important part of my Moorestown upbringing.

Haddonfield is a small walkable town, also pretty upscale. Haddonfield is on the PATCO line, so if you lived there your wife could walk to the station and commute to Center City. Of the other suburbs close to Mount Laurel, Mount Laurel itself, Cherry Hill, Evesham, and Medford could best be compared to Farmington Hills, Livonia, Sterling Heights, or Troy [[without the office towers). Cinnaminson and Delran are a step down, so probably equivalent to Westland. The riverfront towns of Burlington County [[Riverton, Riverside, Palmyra) are pretty similar to Wyandotte [[older, industrial). Large parts of Camden County are economically similar to, say, Madison Heights, Hazel Park, Warren, or St Clair Shores, except built in the 20's rather than the 50's, and more likely to have downtowns. Willingboro is Southfield without the offices. Once known as Levittown, it was once heavily Jewish and now is heavily black. Camden itself is like Pontiac...

I think this about covers the areas you might want to investigate, and covers a fairly wide range of prices. I hope this helps, and I hope you enjoy living in the Philly area.

[Don K]

First off, congratulations on your promotion, secondly sorry we will be losing you. I only know Philly-Camden a little but I got a good vibe. It doesn't seem full of itself, unlike some other cities on the east coast, and has the closest 'Detroit' feel of them all to me. Arguably they have the most rabid and loyal sports fans, so there's another common trait.

I'll agree the Philly area is less full of itself than New York and environs or Boston and environs, and has a feel that's pretty close to SE Michigan.

And sports fans? These are the fans who booed Mike freakin' Schmidt when he had a 4 strikeout day [[afterwards, he said something like, "they oughta boo me, I'm the one getting paid a few million to hit the ball and I didn't"). Although I'm a Tigers/Wings fan now, I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Phillies and Flyers.

And my status as a native Philadelphian and adopted Detroiter is what makes me wonder about the relative fates of the two cities. They were pretty comparable in size in 1950, but since then Philly seems to have stabilized at a population of around 1.5 million, while Detroit is at 700,000 and still declining. But that's a topic for another thread...

[iheartthed]

They were pretty comparable in size in 1950, but since then Philly seems to have stabilized at a population of around 1.5 million, while Detroit is at 700,000 and still declining. But that's a topic for another thread...

To add to this point, Detroit and Philly are also nearly the same size in land area [[Detroit: 139 sq mi vs Philly: 135 sq mile) so they peaked in 1950 at nearly the same population density. This probably also plays into the similar feel to both cities.

[rb336]

Arguably they have the most rabid and loyal sports fans, so there's another common trait.

IF you go to a flyers game, do NOT wear a Wings jersey. Your likely to get a battery to the back of the head [[personal experience). Supposedly a relocated red wings fan once put a giant red wings jersey on the Rocky statue. Whatever you do, do not go to the northern burbs. getting around up there can be a pain. It might look like half a mile on a map, but it can be three driving it. Food is great if you're carnivores. for home, get some Taylor Pork Roll and scrapple. Of course there are the cheese steaks, but don't forget the hoagies. Amoroso rolls are SOOOOOO much better than anything I've had here. I seem to recall a couple of brew pubs in downtown that are pretty good, too.

[Don K]

To add to this point, Detroit and Philly are also nearly the same size in land area [[Detroit: 139 sq mi vs Philly: 135 sq mile) so they peaked in 1950 at nearly the same population density. This probably also plays into the similar feel to both cities.

I had forgotten to mention the similarity of land areas. Actually, though, when I was talking about similarity of feel, it's more about the attitude of the people. Neither Philadelphians nor Detroiters go around with a bunch of attitude [[and a native of the city - not necessarily the burbs - will pronounce that word as a-tee-tood) about their city being the center of the universe, unlike lots of New Yorkers, Bostonians, Chicagoans, and San Franciscans.

In terms of the physical feel of the place, Philly feels more urban than Detroit. You don't have to get very far out of downtown for Detroit to feel pretty suburban, with detached houses on [[small) lots with enough space for a front yard. Philly, by contrast, with the exception of the Far Northeast [[which filled in during the 50's and 60's) and Chestnut Hill [[Philly's rough equivalent to Palmer Woods), is characterized by the rowhouse, which gives a much more dense and urban feel to a neighborhood.

[Det_ard]

I lived in Center City in the mid 90's, 5 - 10 blocks from Rittenhouse Square. It was a nice area, but still had some crime issues. Haven't been back recently but in that general area, call it Center City West, rentals are currently around $2.00 - $2.50/sqft. Translates into maybe $1500 for a 1-bedroom, $2000 - $2500 for a two-bedroom. This is not top-end, nor ghetto, but a solid "B" area. Buying in that area means paying $300 - $500/sqft. Of course, there are deluxe areas, good areas, OK areas and borderline areas, your budget will determine where you look.

There's an area in Philly called Manayunk that was pretty artsy, but that's a bit further away from NJ.

If you like cities you'll like Philly a lot. You may not want to come back to Detroit except as a value play, or if you someday do the "have kids/move to suburbs" thing and the quality of the city becomes less of a factor.

Philly has an inferiority complex just like Detroit. They feel overshadowed by NYC and even DC. Not too much culture shock. I wouldn't want to go without a car in Philly, even with transit it's nice to have the flexibility. Two cars may be more hassle and cost than it's worth. Check insurance, minimum coverage on a beater 15 years ago cost $2500/year.

[Don K]

Food is great if you're carnivores. for home, get some Taylor Pork Roll and scrapple. Of course there are the cheese steaks, but don't forget the hoagies. Amoroso rolls are SOOOOOO much better than anything I've had here.

Oh boy, you had to go there... Pork roll and scrapple are the staffs of life to a Philadelphian. Before you invest in a pound for home use, go to a diner for breakfast. Any diner in the Philly area will have pork roll and scrapple among their choices for breakfast meats [[along with bacon, sausage, and ham).

Now, as far as cheesesteaks [[or steaks without cheese) go, the rule of thumb is that anything bought more than 25 miles from the intersection of Broad Street and Passyunk Avenue not only is not a proper cheesesteak, but is an abomination . That's pretty much a wise rule to be guided by. Here's the terminology for sandwiches on Italian rolls. A hoagie by definition has lettuce, tomato, and onions on it. The basic is the Italian hoagie [[which does not have plain boiled ham on it). There also are variations such as roast beef, turkey, tuna, and ham, but the Italian is the original and the best. Any other combination is a sandwich. The cheesesteak [[or steak) is a sandwich, although you can also get cheesesteak hoagies. There also are veal, chicken, or eggplant parmagiana sandwiches , meatball sandwiches, and sausage sandwiches [[with or without peppers and onions, and with or without sauce). These last never, to the best of my knowledge, are available as hoagies. Back to the cheesesteaks, these also are available with fried onions, but without the lettuce and tomato that would make them into hoagies, and there are variations such as the mushroom steak and the pizza steak [[with red sauce).

Finally, yes, Amoroso rolls are the best, the base on which these sandwiches are built. Just the right combination of crunchy crust and soft but still chewy interior [[particularly after being popped into the pizza oven).

[Planner3357]

I appreciate all the information. We currently live downtown Detroit, so we are looking forward to getting something in Philly proper. Maybe a loft or row. I think we will try to do the one car thing. No sense on taking two if we only need one.

I am trying to wrap my head around everything that has to happen in a month. So much to do....so little time.

I think we are going to stick with the areas between 22nd and Front st, and south of city hall....although I hear there are cool pockets everywhere. I think we will rule out the Jersey side because after reading other's posts it seems that it is what I thought....the dreaded suburbs! I told my wife "if you think Detroit is a big city, just wait" Hopefully she can have a smooth transition from her Troy office to her Philly office.

[gazhekwe]

One thing that I found special when I visited Philadelphia was the Reading Terminal Market. http://www.readingterminalmarket.org/

If I lived there, I would look to be near there. Not only is the Market a pretty neat place, it is close to City Hall and a lot of other interesting places. The Purple Trolley serves that area if you don't feel like walking.

[Planner3357]

Philly has some great areas and some really dangerous areas. If you are an urban type it is the place to be. Jersey is all suburbs in that area. Drive thru or around Camden.
It is far more dense then Detroit. Parking is tough in Center City. It will probably be more expensive than living in Detroit. Take the time to come and visit. I am from Jersey so not too much help.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Philad...nsylvania.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/philadelphia/

http://www.philadelphiausa.travel/visitors/getting-here/public-transportation-regional-system/

http://www.septa.org/index.html


http://www.ridepatco.org/stations/routemap.html

Fortunately, I will have two weeks to look around as I am scheduled to be in S. Jersey/Philly for two weeks Apr 15-28 to give me time to train and find a place before heading back to Detroit to pack and arrive first week of May. So I will use this time wisely. Thanks for the links!

[Don K]

Philly has an inferiority complex just like Detroit.

This. Way back in the late 60's there were billboards around the city with the message "Philadelphia isn't as bad as Philadelphians say it is."

[Don K]

I appreciate all the information. We currently live downtown Detroit, so we are looking forward to getting something in Philly proper. Maybe a loft or row. I think we will try to do the one car thing. No sense on taking two if we only need one.

I am trying to wrap my head around everything that has to happen in a month. So much to do....so little time.

I think we are going to stick with the areas between 22nd and Front st, and south of city hall....although I hear there are cool pockets everywhere. I think we will rule out the Jersey side because after reading other's posts it seems that it is what I thought....the dreaded suburbs! I told my wife "if you think Detroit is a big city, just wait" Hopefully she can have a smooth transition from her Troy office to her Philly office.

Good choice. If you're presently living in Detroit then living in Center City will be a breeze. Good urban amenities but not as dauntingly expensive as, say, NYC. And you'll definitely be able to get by easily with one car. The reverse commute should be pretty easy; either Ben Franklin Bridge to Admiral Wilson Blvd to Route 38 to the Maple Shade interchange or I-95 to the Betsy Ross Bridge to Route 73 to the Maple Shade interchange, then either Route 38 or 73 to the office, depending on where you are working in Mount Laurel.

Best of luck, have fun, and have a cheesesteak with onions, an italian hoagie, some scrapple, and some pork roll for me.

[dtowncitylover]

I have a question...what are some middle class suburbs on on the Pennsylvania side of the metro area? I know the Main Line is like the Grosse Pointes.