Palmer Park Apartments Revisited 2012

[j to the jeremy]

And what is being done? Nothing. You can call the police for such activities and they will never come.

But Brezhnev, er, Bing reports we have a taco truck downtown. Be still my heart.

It reminds me of our once Chaldean Town that I drove through today [[also unspeakably sad). Why were these critical areas not actively stabilized, promoted, and PROTECTED by the establishment?

Thank G-d, now they're promoting Paradise Valley since they've invented it!!!

In Backwards Michigan, neighborhood stabilize YOU!!!!!!

Seriously, though, I think the city would rather see places rot than have Chaldeans or homosexuals live in successful communities. After all, our region still lives in the 1950s, politically speaking.

[kirkwood street]

in the 60's and 70's a good friend of mine delivered the free press to all the apartments in the palmer park area. he made a good income doing it.

[Zacha341]

What? I see very little around me resembling the 50's, 60 or even the seventies; even setting aside a debate as to whatever that time frame meant socially relative to neighborhoods and family that took Detroit to where we are now.

Are you speaking of some conservative zeitgeist that is causing or precipitated the money 'diversions' and fiscal corruption and rising crime which as a cumulative factor clears out whole neighborhoods when people simply tire of living in fear etc...?

I suppose... ... But Snyder's not been around that long on the scene.

In Backwards Michigan, neighborhood stabilize YOU!!!!!!

Seriously, though, I think the city would rather see places rot than have Chaldeans or homosexuals live in successful communities. After all, our region still lives in the 1950s, politically speaking.

[Bham1982]

In Backwards Michigan, neighborhood stabilize YOU!!!!!!

Seriously, though, I think the city would rather see places rot than have Chaldeans or homosexuals live in successful communities. After all, our region still lives in the 1950s, politically speaking.

Chaldeans and Gays live in successful communities. It just happens that those communities aren't within Detroit proper.

I think if you ask the "typical" Chaldean whether they want to live on 7 Mile/John R or in West Bloomfield, I can guess the answer.

West Bloomfield may not be urban, but thousands of Chaldeans happily live there. Like most Americans, they want a big house with a yard. Good schools, good services, safety, low taxes, and secure property values.

And the Lower Woodward communities, especially Ferndale have an obvious gay presence. The need for a distinct "gay ghetto" is less needed anyways, since discrimination against gays is definitely on the decline.

[Zacha341]

My point exactly. No one wants to live with bold-faced, brazen crime and squalor, such as when you leave your dwelling in the morning watched by criminals who break in during the day. That area became intolerable, so people left. I think Palmer Park can make a come back though, and people will once again live there.

Chaldeans and Gays live in successful communities. It just happens that those communities aren't within Detroit proper.

I think if you ask the "typical" Chaldean whether they want to live on 7 Mile/John R or in West Bloomfield, I can guess the answer.

West Bloomfield may not be urban, but thousands of Chaldeans happily live there. Like most Americans, they want a big house with a yard. Good schools, good services, safety, low taxes, and secure property values.

And the Lower Woodward communities, especially Ferndale have an obvious gay presence. The need for a distinct "gay ghetto" is less needed anyways, since discrimination against gays is definitely on the decline.

[poobert]

And the Lower Woodward communities, especially Ferndale have an obvious gay presence. The need for a distinct "gay ghetto" is less needed anyways, since discrimination against gays is definitely on the decline.

There was a map a while back that had a higher percentage of gays in Boston-Edison than in Ferndale.

I'm not gay myself but virtually every gay person I know lives in the city. It's something that seems hard to track and it is a rather tightly-knit community. I bet Ferndale's days claim as the gay mecca are numbered...there are tons in Boston Edison, the Villages, Lafayette Park and East English Village. As a broad generalization they seem to prefer the urban living and the architecture. Living in the city does not automatically mean living in the ghetto.

[canuck]

And what is being done? Nothing. You can call the police for such activities and they will never come.

But Brezhnev, er, Bing reports we have a taco truck downtown. Be still my heart.

It reminds me of our once Chaldean Town that I drove through today [[also unspeakably sad). Why were these critical areas not actively stabilized, promoted, and PROTECTED by the establishment?

Thank G-d, now they're promoting Paradise Valley since they've invented it!!!

I dont know, maybe THEY as you say didnt so much invent IT as were confined to it, if I get your meaning. THEY would not have been welcome at the lovely apartment district except for cleaning and serving. That is part of the equation that makes inner cities a mess.

I agree with you though that very little has been done to help the city's structures be protected. But at the end of the day, it is more important to look at the vacancy in Detroit that came as a result of neglecting social inequalities.

[Zacha341]

Certainly... I took him to mean staying in PP park once it got bad [[ala a ghetto).

...Living in the city does not automatically mean living in the ghetto.

[GUSHI]

Chaldeans went from 7 mile to Warren/sterling heights to west Bloomfield,
The poles went from ham town/Chene to Warren/sterling,
The Albanians went from hamtown /pole town plant area to sterling to macomb/Shelby/Washington,
The dagos went from gratiot area in Detroit to sterling to shelby/macomb/Washington twp.
The blacks went from detroit to Southfield/oak park,
The Jews went from Southfield/oak park/berkley to Bloomfield,
The Muslims outside of Dearborn seem to follow the Jewish migration to the westside,
The eastside[[macomb county) is mostly Christian, the west side is more mixed with different religions,

[Bham1982]

I meant "gay ghetto" not as a pejorative for "urban slum area", but as traditional meaning ghetto is an enclave of similar people forced by circumstance to lived in proximity. Gay neighborhoods were traditionally "ghettoized" by necessity for safety and sense of community.

And, yeah, I think that many gays live in Detroit proper. It makes sense, since gays are less likely to have issues with schools, and [[if I may stereotype for a moment) I think more gay couples are into things like architecture and interior design, things that Detroit neighborhoods have in spades over their suburban brethren.

[Zacha341]

Thanks for the clarification, the original meaning of the word does get forgotten sometimes.

I meant "gay ghetto" not as a pejorative for "urban slum area", but as traditional meaning ghetto is an enclave of similar people forced by circumstance to lived in proximity.

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

Most of my gay friends do not live in the city of Detroit. Why? Crime. is #1, then high taxes and poor services. A lot live in that Royal Oak - Ferndale area, but most are spread out across all of metro Detroit. Bad schools are a problem for most people, since most of my friends don't have kids that is not a problem. I think many of them would consider moving into Detroit if the crime problem could be addressed. What it is going to take is a gentrification of an area, such as mid-town to downtown. That word "Gentrification" can start heated discussion, but basically it means rising property values and poor people getting pushed out of the area. Detroit has enough poor people I am sorry to say, what it needs is areas with middle/upper income.

[mikeinmotown]

I lived there in the late 70's and loved it. At that time you could walk around without fear of being mugged. A lot of the landlords wanted to turn the buildings into condo's which in my opinion would of saved the area. Coleman Young was against it because he felt it would make the apartments too expensive for blacks to live. When crime started to pick up the tenents of my building went to the landlord and offered to pay higher rent if they would hire 24 hour security. The landlord refused. I blame the landlords for the decline in the 80's. If they would hired private security crime would of decreased. It's such a shame. I loved the building I lived in. I believer is was 2,000 sq feet. It was huge.

[Detroitdave]

My hat is off to the folks that are the friends of Palmer Park, I wish them all the best . The Palmer Park area was a really cool area back in the early to mid 80's when I was a kid and would check it out . It was just as cool as West Hollywood, Boystown, and the Village . There was several problems in that area , Highland park to the south was one BIG problem the crime and decay that destroyed Highland Park spilled over to Palmer Park.
When the people who lived in the area would call the cops would never show up . I felt the city didn't care because , back then it was only a bunch of gay people , so good riddens . The city didn't see the value of the area or appreciate the gay community and what they brought/bring to any community they join. Ok time for a stereotype that is mostly true . when gay people move into a neighborhood ,they bring the property values up .most of the time they keep their homes up and add value to all the homes in the area . I've seen this time and time again . I have married friends that joke , we want to move into a gay person house after they move out, knowing they have updated everything in the house tastefully ;-), it's move in ready ! ;-)
Also , like what was said earlier most don't have kids , so they much more of a disposable income and can use it for their homes , going out to eat in the area, just spending more money in their own neighborhood ect .
A lot of "people" in the city of Detroit have a problem with gay people , I believe Detroit has room for ALL people , but there is a undercurrent in the city of intolerance that has been in this city for decades .
Now is an opportunity to make a change in Detroit that would invite ALL people into the city. For the last 50 plus years there has been a a sense of it's ours now and we will do anything to hold on to it , well it is OURS, ALL OF OURS , lets set an example for future generations.
Let's stop driving out future generations of Detroiters [[like me ), looking to Chicago, New York, LA, Atlanta , SF, Miami, ect, as a tolerant, dynamic , exciting , livable cities , that are the envy of small towns .
I did move back to be a part of a "renaissance" hopefully and trying to make a difference , the jury is still out on if I made the right choice.
It's been 4years, since then I've seen some changes, not sure enough to make me stay for the long haul, but I am a BIG Detroit promoter to family and friends everywhere , and yes I LIVE in the city limits and shop and eat spending my money in Detroit at Detroit , bar, restaurants, and shops .

[Detroitgayhistoryguy]

The decline of the gay population in Palmer Park is a much argued about topic. At least, I have found. I have talked to some older people who told me that Coleman Young ordered the police to stop responding to calls in the area in order to drive out the white gays. Others tell me that is not true, I guess we'll never really know the truth. I've heard about the Detroit police's "Bag a Fag" operations, I still have to research and read more about that. Detroit's African American population, being highly Baptist, is very intolerant of gay people. Which has always been funny to me because the Gay population is very anti-discrimination.

[XDetroitr]

I lived in The Park in the early '80s. The Trocedero [[17725 Manderson) and 980 Whitmore. There was a short period of time that Palmer Park did have a private security patrol that tenants voluntarily paid for. Needless to say, it didn't last long. I echo the sentiments of many of the previous posters... it was a wonderful place to live back then. The #1 problem is crime. Of course, that's a city-wide problem too. But the uniqueness of Palmer Park as a high-density and architecturally-significant neighborhood will hopefully make it a popular place to live again. A light-rail stop at 6 & Woodward would help.

[mtm49269]

Detroitgayhistoryguy,

From your link, pics. 3-8 are of the Coronado @ 275 Merton, right? If so, my 1st apartment is pictured in pics. 5-7. It was on the NE wing, 4th floor.

The windows with the ledge were the living room windows and we could climb out the window to sit in the ledge in the evening to enjoy the breezes and listen to soft sax music coming from acorss the street. My eventual husband moved into the opposite apartment - 4th floor NW wing and, when the Tigers won the '84 World Series, we sat out there watching fireworks and listening to [[celebratory??) gunshots.

The architecture was SUPERB! Walking in the front door, there was a large coat closet in the vestibule that lead north to the living room. The living room was HUGE and had a walk-in closet almost the size of a small bedroom. There was a leaded glass door in the SW corner of the living room that lead to the rest of the apartment. First was the kitchen and dining room which were directly S of the living room. Kitchen was small but charming with low, glass-doored cabinets facing the dining room. Heading back N from the dining room was a hallway that lead to the bathroom on the left and bedroom straight ahead. Bathroom was very cool and classy with tiny tiles all over the floor, lower walls, and separate, standalone shower stall. Bedroom had the windows to the right [[west) of the living room windows with the ledge. Only problem was that the bedroom had no radiator so it got pretty cold in winter. There were solid hardwood floors throughout and the leaded glass doors were beautiful.

Yes, there was crime in the area - baby, teen-aged hookers on 6/Woodward - but I never had a problem, even when coming home late from work or classes at WSU. But there were also great features in the area, including Kowkow Chinese restaurant on 6 and the Backstage Deli on Woodward. Backstage was a story in itself but they made the best spinach salad, deli sandwichs, prime rib, and brunch with mimosa on Sundays!

So VERY sad to see how far its fallen...

[dawn26]

beautiful pics...so sad to see what has become of those buildings. i've driven through there a couple of times and it looks like they are trying to rehab some of them. would love to get inside each building and see what details are left

[kryptonite]

I lived in two buildings in PP, from 1980-1983. I had many friends in the area and visiting the different buildings was always great. Some of my friends had amazing apartments. Mine were just average. My second apartment was 225 Covington, which was the finest building building I ever lived in, with an enormous lobby. People in the area were very friendly, many elderly people still lived there. I still am in touch with a few of my old friends from the area, but none are still living there. I haven't been in the area for about three years. But I am optimistic that eventually it will improve. The buildings are exceptional pieces of architecture. Crime, noise, and parking were always issues.

[p69rrh51]

I lived in two buildings in PP, from 1980-1983. I had many friends in the area and visiting the different buildings was always great. Some of my friends had amazing apartments. Mine were just average. My second apartment was 225 Covington, which was the finest building building I ever lived in, with an enormous lobby. People in the area were very friendly, many elderly people still lived there. I still am in touch with a few of my old friends from the area, but none are still living there. I haven't been in the area for about three years. But I am optimistic that eventually it will improve. The buildings are exceptional pieces of architecture. Crime, noise, and parking were always issues.

Unfortunately in need of little tlc! Palmer Lodge Apartments 225 Covington built in 1929-Designed by Wiedmaier & Gay.

[Neilr]

999 Whitmore Road [[the deco white stucco building) is perhaps the only Detroit apartment building that consists entirely of duplex units. Notice on the plans that the 2nd & 4th floors do not even have common halls. That space becomes closet space for the bedrooms of the units.

[p69rrh51]

999 Whitmore Road [[the deco white stucco building) is perhaps the only Detroit apartment building that consists entirely of duplex units. Notice on the plans that the 2nd & 4th floors do not even have common halls. That space becomes closet space for the bedrooms of the units.

999 Whitmore Dr. built in 1936 Designed by Talmadge C. Hughes. The floor plan is very cool!

[downtownguy]

Somebody needs to give this guy a walk-through. It sounds perfect for him. I wonder what happened to his plans for downtown? I haven't heard any updates since this was first published in the Detroit News, I think late last year. The News took the story down, but you can still read the entire article here: http://friedmannews.com/2011/12/01/i...it-properties/

Investor Tony Goldman interested in Detroit properties

The real estate mogul who played a key role in transforming Miami Beach’s South Beach and New York City’s SoHo areas into art destinations says he’s close to making a major investment in downtown Detroit as well as partnering with the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation to support art projects in the city.

“I make a critical mass statement,” Tony Goldman said in a telephone interview Tuesday from Miami. “I’m a neighborhood builder, and an investment in one building is not going to do it.”

The chairman and CEO of New York-based Goldman Properties Co. says he is “about 90 days” away from sealing deals that would make that kind of investment statement in Detroit

[casscorridor]

It is unfortunate that Palmer Park is located where it is. Had it been built in or next to Midtown, its grand apartments would be the most desired real estate in the city. I still see potential in the Palmer Park area, but my hopes are dim due to what I have been witnessing for years in Detroit... the steady destruction of everything. That, coupled with the fact that the light-rail was canceled... Palmer Park would have made an idea commuter area, with affordable but beautiful apartments and an amazing and huge park... perhaps a few businesses would have opened such as a grocery store or a couple restaurants. Oh well, this is Detroit, where nothing is sacred and every historic building is an "eye sore waiting to be demolished".

As far as "gayborhoods," Ferndale is a rather atypical example compared to other American cities, as it is located outside of the city proper. It is also extremely white, and not really that gay, seems to be just a place where white kids from other suburbs move to because they are afraid of the city. I guess it all depends on your perspective, some people say they know only gays who live in the city, some say they know none who do. For me, a lot of my gay/queer friends have moved away from Michigan all together, and found community in other, more welcoming, places. But a good deal still live in greater Downtown area, and like it [[all things considered).

[bartock]

Makes one wonder what the unedited version of that was.