Is Dan Gilbert Too Tacky?

[urbanhat]

Ok, I have no doubt that Dan Gilbert's investments are a good thing for the city. But I have to agree with the critics:

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/des...-detroit/1546/

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2012/03/downtown-detroits-new-decor-is-an-atrocious-attention-whore.php

Has Dan Gilbert not put any of his investment into a good designer? Or, given all the great design talent in and interested in Detroit, how did we end up with this mess?

[[Sorry if this was posted before--I looked quickly and didn't see it.)

[canuck]

I think what they have done is fine. I wasnt expecting that from him, following the letdown of a project design proposal on the Hudson site, but this seems to be well done and well in tune with the younger set of employees he has hired. I think that it is good to show that a corporate setting like Quicken which traditionallly is conservative can turn around and suddenly be jazzy and fearless like the new Detroit needs to be.

I am pleasantly surprised. Let it be tacky to some people, but let it clear the air first and foremost.

[Jason]

It's the kind of design you get when you buy a building and it needs new interiors and your wife is an interior designer...

15 years ago it would have been current [[but still tacky). Today it's just outdated and tacky.

And not only will people have the misfortune of working in those spaces, but they reflect poorly on Detroit as a whole. This is what's getting showcased as the cutting edge Detroit of the future. But it [[the design at least) is so clearly not.

If anyone wants to actually see what is going on in the world of design, just browse through a few pages of archdaily.com. I'm not going to say ALL of the buildings there are actually good--that's a different discussion--but it's very up to date.

For something more indepth but less accessible, the University of Michigan has been uploading their guest lectures: vimeo.com/taubmancollege

[Trumpeteer]

And not only will people have the misfortune of working in those spaces, but they reflect poorly on Detroit as a whole.

REFLECT POORLY??? What the fuck is worse, a design that doesn't meet your criteria or an EMPTY buidling??? And the "misfortune" of working in this hideous building??? Go back to art school and don't venture out into reality.

[Detroitnerd]

REFLECT POORLY??? What the fuck is worse, a design that doesn't meet your criteria or an EMPTY buidling??? And the "misfortune" of working in this hideous building??? Go back to art school and don't venture out into reality.

Ah, yes. Another shout from the "at least we got sumptin" school of thought. I know it well. You wouldn't happen to be from metro Detroit, would you?

[gumby]

Ah, yes. Another shout from the "at least we got sumptin" school of thought. I know it well. You wouldn't happen to be from metro Detroit, would you?

And another shout from "I wanna tell that guy how to spend his money" school of thought. Once again, when you pony up your millions of dollars then you can play interior designer.

[Detroitnerd]

And another shout from "I wanna tell that guy how to spend his money" school of thought. Once again, when you pony up your millions of dollars then you can play interior designer.

Nonsense. You misunderstand the function of criticism. Again, I think this is a metro Detroit thing, that we're in our own little bubble and when anybody invests in something in our city, we are somehow supposed to be so beholden to that investor that we cannot make any judgment of taste -- unless we put up our own money and do what we want.

See, in New York, it isn't like that. When somebody puts up a building, there is often a lively public discussion about its merits. Is it attractive? Does it add to the public realm? Does it blend in with its surroundings? Some may even say the new building is ugly, and nobody shouts, "Pony up your millions of dollars then you can play interior designer!" Far from it. That's because they don't have that special brand of insecurity about criticizing investors you see around here. They are secure enough to have a discussion about culture, and, even if it becomes vigorous, it often remains civil.

Again: The function of criticism is not to attack somebody and scare away investment. The function of criticism is to challenge stale ideas and create a finer sensibility; to discern passing fads from actual advances; and, yes, to identify and often to lampoon bad taste.

I urge you: Don't try to silence that which enriches the public discussion of art and architecture. It's one of those things that makes us seem even more a backwater than we already are.

[Scottathew]

Ah, yes. Another shout from the "at least we got sumptin" school of thought. I know it well. You wouldn't happen to be from metro Detroit, would you?

I still don't understand why it matters. He's kept the outside of the building the same. The only thing that doesn't meet your standards are some of the floors that only his employees will see.

In fact, the only change you'll notice is more bodies out at lunchtime in the park and folks buying things at local businesses. In fact, many new businesses are opening up in response to all the jobs that Gilbert and others have moved down.

So yes, we have something. And even if you don't like it, it doesn't matter, because you don't have to go up there. And on the off chance that you're one of his employees and you don't like it, then if it matters that much seek alternate employment.

[Gannon]

I still don't understand why it matters. He's kept the outside of the building the same, so far. The only thing that doesn't meet your standards are some of the floors that only his employees will see.

Fixed it for you.

I'm still waiting for any photoshop junkies to Gilbertize the icons of the city, so you can see what I'm warning about. Might as well Gilbertize the Qube's exterior, too...because, mark my words, if we don't stem this in its infancy...


Cheers!

[noise]

Ah, yes. Another shout from the "at least we got sumptin" school of thought. I know it well. You wouldn't happen to be from metro Detroit, would you?

Any other school of thought would ignore the fact that you're talking about Detroit. This isn't a thriving, successful city in comparison, unfortunately.

[bartock]

Any other school of thought would ignore the fact that you're talking about Detroit. This isn't a thriving, successful city in comparison, unfortunately.

Nobody in a thriving, successful city would give a flying fuck what someone did to the INSIDE of a building they bought.

[antongast]

Yes. Yes, he is.

[gnome]

Nothing looks older faster than that which is modern today.

[Gistok]

Nothing looks older faster than that which is modern today.

Gotta agree... take the "new" Fisher Theatre".... teak and brass.... Theatre Historical Society had this to say about our wonderful new [[in 1961) Fisher Theatre... "while it was made of quality materials, the new Fisher looks more date than does the old [[1928 Mayanesque style) Fisher, had it survived...

[Zacha341]

^^^^ Precisely. Well stated!

[gumby]

Who gives a fuck what its interior design is like. I'll take tacky over empty any day.

[Zacha341]

Well that's a point! Hah!

Who gives a fuck what its interior design is like. I'll take tacky over empty any day.

[Gannon]

I dunno...perhaps we should look at this through Broken Windows theory.

There is great chance this tackiness may be infectious to the outside environment of the city, if there is no intervention beforehand.

Gilbert is amassing too much power to be ignored, and if he has THIS bad of taste with the spaces he has direct control over...there is little anyone will be able to do to curb his brand of neo-ugliness.


What I see in the few images I've perused in the past few days is a visual cacophony of colorful shapely noise and clutter. Nowhere near a professional environment which should be more continuous unto branding the company. I see nothing original, beyond the trendy "what-hasn't-yet-been-done-before" rushed through the noggingly clueless yes-execudroids into purchasing and accounting before anyone can ask perhaps why.

Why hasn't anyone else assembled a collection of furniture which doesn't match in a room with walls and ceilings which look like they were copied from a Marvel comic fight scene, in a WORK environment?!

Can you just imagine how the place SOUNDS?! Too loud, too confusing...too much noise to conduct business with a clear head.

Then again, maybe the scamortgage industry needs unclear heads to operate.



Yeah, before he gets too much of a hand in downtown politics...as if it isn't already too late...we need to make an intervention to contain his brand of neo-ugliness before he decides to colorize our current icons.

In the old days, I could 'commission' images of a hyped-up modernized Spirit with Quicken tattoos and fleshtones, or the Noguchi monolith Phylon turned into stacked colored blocks from one of our forum Photoshop experts...to illustrate my point. I don't even want to know what they'd do to the Joe Louis fist, although it cannot be much worse than what my drunken fraternity brothers always got around to planning but never executing. I always voted for purple, since it holds no racial undertones.


No cheers on bad taste! If even I can tell it, it's gotta be really bad.


Sincerely,
John

[urbanhat]

Who gives a fuck what its interior design is like. I'll take tacky over empty any day.

Sure, I agree 100%, empty is worse! But just because we don't want empty doesn't mean we should throw out all standards!! And it's not an all-or-nothing choice. Wouldn't it be cheaper to edit out the lime-green-orange-fake-wood-and-silkscreen carpet and the plush rainbow-striped file cabinets, thus leaving more money to invest in additional buildings?

All I'm saying is that next time Dan Gilbert does an interior he should get a second opinion.

[downtownguy]

But just because we don't want empty doesn't mean we should throw out all standards!!

What standards? Your standards? He who puts up the cash and buys the building sets the standards.

[gumby]

Sure, I agree 100%, empty is worse! But just because we don't want empty doesn't mean we should throw out all standards!! And it's not an all-or-nothing choice. Wouldn't it be cheaper to edit out the lime-green-orange-fake-wood-and-silkscreen carpet and the plush rainbow-striped file cabinets, thus leaving more money to invest in additional buildings?

All I'm saying is that next time Dan Gilbert does an interior he should get a second opinion.

And all I am saying is next time you put up millions of dollars then you can have the say.

[antongast]

The issue of whether or not Dan Gilbert's building renovations are tacky is relatively trivial in the scheme of things, but I think some of the posts in this thread are symptomatic of a much bigger problem with how we in Detroit view our city. We were built up very quickly through the largesse of a very small number of very large corporations, and then were smacked down again just as hard by those same corporations and corporate bosses. With Big Auto having all but disowned the city proper, we've turned into a population of blue-collar Midwestern ronin, constantly searching for a new corporate boss to make things right again. Gilbert, so to speak, is the Boss Du Jour, and everyone in Official Detroit is scared to death of uttering so much as one critical word about the man or his company lest he decide to up and leave us too. In short, we've got ourselves a bit of a self esteem problem when it comes to rich businessmen, and I don't think it's conducive to healthy conversations about who we want to be as a city and where we want to go in the future, and I also don't think it's conducive to good public policies and effective management of city government. Heck, it's probably not even conducive to "economic development" and "job creation" and all that sort of thing.

[mikeinmotown]

I agree gumby. I personally don't like the guy but thank god he is ivesting in Detroit. Who cares if he's tacky or not. I'm just happy he keeps buying downtown.

[Scottathew]

I hate it when businessmen go into dilapidated and forgotten urban cores and then start buying buildings, moving thousands and thousands of jobs into them, and then have the sheer audacity to renovate them in a way inconsistent with my taste!

Seriously people, you guys are too funny. Let's take a look at how Illitch renovates his properties...

[tkelly1986]

Though the designs may be tacky, it’s nothing new for Detroit. Detroiters dress tackier than anyone else in America; led prominently by our “clergy” and city councilmen. The term city “clownsil” is appropriate for more than one reason.