Oakland Cty Commissioner: High Gas Prices Better for Economy

**Zaiko** · March-22-12, 04:21 PM

This is according to a Birmingham republican on the Oakland County Commission. He's not saying that it happens directly. But it sets a chain of events in motion that would lead to prosperity.

See about the event at the Birmingham Amtrak station last night.

http://www.michigannow.org/2012/03/2...kes-and-sense/

**rex** · March-22-12, 04:23 PM

leave it to a birmingham republican to come up with some isht like that.

**downtownguy** · March-22-12, 06:08 PM

I wonder what he thinks about Gingrich's promise to bring gas to $2.50/gallon if elected?

**Scottathew** · March-22-12, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

I wonder what he thinks about Gingrich's promise to bring gas to $2.50/gallon if elected?

LOL. I love the republican fuzzy math that tries to pretend that rising gas prices only happened on Obama's watch.

**ghettopalmetto** · March-22-12, 10:46 PM

To put the thread title in context, Commissioner Potts is arguing that high gas prices will force Southeastern Michigan to invest more in transit, and thus focus development in existing areas vis-a-vis continuing to sprawl ever-outward. That is the "improvement in the economy" of which he spoke.

County Commissioner Potts says things that would get him thrown out of office at any level higher than county government. He welcomes high gas prices. He believes that over time, they could make Michigan richer. They will force us to change our priorities.
“We don’t have European style $15 dollar gas. But we’re headed there,” Potts said. And then he argued that public investment in automobiles has made people poorer. Mass transit is a wiser investment.
“For a long time the mantra in Oakland County was we are the richest county in the country. What is it now? 61^st. The wealth has left us. It left with the children. It left with people moving to Florida. These magnet issues become pocketbook issues.”

**Cincinnati_Kid** · March-23-12, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by 48091

LOL. I love the republican fuzzy math that tries to pretend that rising gas prices only happened on Obama's watch.

Right. Blame everything on Obama. The Repubs can stick it up the gazoo.

**Bham1982** · March-23-12, 06:59 AM

Looks like no one bothered to actually read the link.

Mayor Nikita is totally out-of-touch, BTW. Won't be around long, because he has no clue that residents are outraged about property taxes and education, and don't care much about public transit.

**Gistok** · March-23-12, 11:39 AM

I don't study the real estate comparisons of Grosse Pointe versus Birmingham/Bloomfield. But you certainly get more for your money in the Grosse Pointes. And they've been upgrading their shopping areas [[such as the Hill) by building [[or re-building) some very classic looking buildings.

Whatever some here would say about the merits of the architecture... it's definitely made of quality materials... and has a lot of charm.... and even the Pointes were sophisticated enough to leave the Marcel Breuer designed library alone.

And I know some here absolutely hate the new library... but the Post Modern Elizabethan style comes across much better than the boring older parts of the library behind it... and again... quality materials... not just glass and steel...

**Bham1982** · March-23-12, 11:42 AM

The Pointes are definitely much more uniform architecturally, and probably more aesthetically pleasing overall.

You certainly don't have the jarring juxtaposition of tiny bungalows and giant McMansions side-by-side like in Birmingham.

**Gistok** · March-23-12, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The Pointes are definitely much more uniform architecturally, and probably more aesthetically pleasing overall.

You certainly don't have the jarring juxtaposition of tiny bungalows and giant McMansions side-by-side like in Birmingham.

Did Birmingham put a stop to that? Some of those McMansions have huge expanses of windowless walls that I'm sure the neighbors absolutely hate. Or is the city just being more picky about architectural details for teardowns?

**DetroitPlanner** · March-23-12, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Did Birmingham put a stop to that? Some of those McMansions have huge expanses of windowless walls that I'm sure the neighbors absolutely hate. Or is the city just being more picky about architectural details for teardowns?

The correct terminology for these homes are Bigfoots. The differences may be subtle, but in theory you can build a nice looking McMansion. Some bigfoots can also be known as snouts. Snouts get thier names from having a 2+ car garage door protrude onto a front lawn area. That is all you see from the first floor front side besides an entrance door set back a few feet. These look a lot like the snout of a pig or a dog! My sis lives in one, I have to watch my language when I am with her!

Bigfoot houses are houses that max out the allowable set-backs on all four sides as well as the maximum height. Most need to be designed specifically for the lot. Unfortunately they all look very similar no matter what sort of trim is applied to them be it victorian, spanish, or tutor -- ugly. I can't imagine being an architect with one of those coming into my office! They all end up looking like big plain boxes.

**antongast** · March-23-12, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Snouts get thier names from having a 2+ car garage door protrude onto a front lawn area. That is all you see from the first floor front side besides an entrance door set back a few feet. These look a lot like the snout of a pig or a dog! My sis lives in one, I have to watch my language when I am with her!

My preferred term is "garage with an attached house," as in "I love your garage! And oh, look, you have a house attached! How practical!" This is probably why I don't get invited to parties.

**Gistok** · March-23-12, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by antongast

My preferred term is "garage with an attached house," as in "I love your garage! And oh, look, you have a house attached! How practical!" This is probably why I don't get invited to parties.

lol... so subtlety is not your modus operandi....

**Novine** · March-23-12, 01:03 PM

"Taxes in Birmingham are, by any measure, high. Compare to Bloomfield, Troy, Rochester. There are all kinds of questionable expenses, based on delusions of civic grandeur."

Troy's not a "peer" of Birmingham. I would expect that people who live in Troy don't want to live in Birmingham and vice versa. As for tax rates for the various small cities and villages in Oakland County by millage rate, here's a sampling:

Birmingham: 15.6005
Bloomfield Hills: 9.8500
Farmington: 16.5856
Ferndale: 28.5561
Franklin: 9.9094
Huntington Woods: 25.7349
Milford: 14.6508
Northville: 16.7469
Pleasant Ridge: 18.1928
Rochester: 12.4304

Birmingham's not the highest and is less than towns like Pleasant Ridge, Farmington and Northville. The amount of taxes paid may be much higher than in other communities but that's because Birmingham generally has higher property tax values than those communities.

**Hermod** · March-23-12, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

The correct terminology for these homes are Bigfoots. The differences may be subtle, but in theory you can build a nice looking McMansion. Some bigfoots can also be known as snouts. Snouts get thier names from having a 2+ car garage door protrude onto a front lawn area. That is all you see from the first floor front side besides an entrance door set back a few feet. These look a lot like the snout of a pig or a dog! My sis lives in one, I have to watch my language when I am with her!

Bigfoot houses are houses that max out the allowable set-backs on all four sides as well as the maximum height. Most need to be designed specifically for the lot. Unfortunately they all look very similar no matter what sort of trim is applied to them be it victorian, spanish, or tutor -- ugly. I can't imagine being an architect with one of those coming into my office! They all end up looking like big plain boxes.

For an architect, if you are trying to put an attached two car garage on a large house on a narrow lot, you pretty much have to have the garage in front. The alternative would be to have drivable alleys so that the garage can be entered from the back yard and the front of the house can be all windows with a single entry door.

Building houses with detached garages or small one car garages will lose out in the marketplace of home buyers.

,

**antongast** · March-23-12, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

The alternative would be to have drivable alleys so that the garage can be entered from the back yard and the front of the house can be all windows with a single entry door.

This is a good alternative.

**Detroitnerd** · March-23-12, 02:31 PM

Birmingham has changed a lot over the years. Given all the fancy restaurants, I was surprised to find that elements of Prohibition held over into the 1960s. For instance, I read that it wasn't legal to sell wine by the glass in Birmingham until the 1970s.

Very interesting perspectives on Birmingham on this thread.

**gameguy56** · March-23-12, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Everyone knows places like Huntington Woods and Pleasant Ridge have sky high taxes, because they're all residential, and old suburbs with heavy service burdens.

Wait..why would Huntington Woods have a heavier service burden? The residents are still fairly wealthy.

**Novine** · March-23-12, 03:09 PM

"But your list isn't showing Birmingham peers. When folks are complaining about their taxes they certainly aren't thinking about places like Ferndale."

You have an odd definition of peer communities. "Peer" communities are those that share some common characteristics with Birmingham. I would consider Bloomfield Hills to be a peer because of the wealth factor even though it doesn't have a downtown. Troy isn't a peer nor is Rochester Hills nor is Farmington Hills or Northville Township. How are they anything like Birmingham? Peer also does not equal neighboring and it's foolish to make that comparison unless you believe that people who live in Birmingham would be just as happy to live on a cul-de-sac in Troy or Rochester Hills.

**Detroitej72** · March-23-12, 03:15 PM

Back to the topic about gas prices and development, I think many of the sentiments voiced by this chap are spot on. The area, as a region, should invest more into regional transit and rebuilding the city and inner-ring suburbs. When you look at successful cities like NY and Chicago, they all have densely populated centers, something we tend to shun in Metro-Detroit.

**Bham1982** · March-23-12, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Wait..why would Huntington Woods have a heavier service burden? The residents are still fairly wealthy.

Well, for one, they bought the Rackham Golf Course. 20 million or whatever divided by 2,000 or so households can't help. They're also a "full service" type city, which is great, but costs a lot for a small population base.

**Novine** · March-23-12, 06:52 PM

Rackham is still owned by the city of Detroit.

http://berkley.patch.com/articles/ra...tract-approved

**DLife** · March-25-12, 08:07 AM

I wonder how they get out of paying property taxes to Huntington Woods...was that part of original agreement when the golf course was built??

**Don K** · March-24-12, 11:35 PM

Peers for Birmingham? I'd say Bloomfield Hills and Township for sure. Parts of Plymouth and Northville cities. The Pointes. That's about it.

And I'm really tired of reading about how if Birmingham didn't have the Townsend, nice restaurants, etc., there might be more for downtown. Pretty much every other major city in the country has nice restaurants in suburban downtowns without having a lack of these restaurants downtown. The fact is Detroit's downtown was never as substantial as it might have been, given the metropolitan population here. When the largest employer in the city is three miles out of downtown [[New Center), the second largest is about ten miles out [[Dearborn), and the third largest is about six miles outside [[Highland Park), as was true here for about 70 years, it's hard to develop much of a downtown or a downtown culture, such as exists in Chicago, Philadelphia, or Boston.

Finally, and circling back to the original topic, I completely agree that the Detroit area needs a convenient and reliable transit system to be competitive in the future. But to me that means a system that gets people to where jobs are, and not to where we wish the jobs were. This means service to downtown, but also to Troy, Southfield, and Dearborn.

**ghettopalmetto** · March-26-12, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Don K

Finally, and circling back to the original topic, I completely agree that the Detroit area needs a convenient and reliable transit system to be competitive in the future. But to me that means a system that gets people to where jobs are, and not to where we wish the jobs were. This means service to downtown, but also to Troy, Southfield, and Dearborn.

Yet in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, Michigan built massive freeways to where they wished the jobs were. Guess what happened?

You can't construct an automobile-dependent environment, such as Troy, then expect to successfully graft a transit system on top of it and have it function even remotely well. It's an adorable idea, but not at all practical.